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Obama lied to the world about the Bengazi attack

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  • #91
    dale,

    irst of all, comparing an active misinformation campaign to cover up fatal negligence and a collapsed foreign policy is not really of the same magnitude as forgetting to do a press push for your favorite political agenda.
    as JAD and i were saying, there's a world of difference between 'poor media handling' and 'active misinformation'.

    but the stimulus got plenty of play and certainly for Obamacare there was almost a year-long push with ad buys, op eds, and very public meetings with doctors and the like.
    most of this was after the fact, not during.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    • #92
      Originally posted by astralis View Post
      dale,



      as JAD and i were saying, there's a world of difference between 'poor media handling' and 'active misinformation'.
      Then why equate the two?

      most of this was after the fact, not during.
      Nope.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
        One thing that nags at me is why the ambassador went to Benghazi at all. If it is true that the embassy had asked for beefed up security, the degree of risk must have been known. Maybe they didn't rate it that high. Apparently the ambassador didn't.

        Of course, the administration can't use that argument, because failure to address any risk is a failure in itself.

        I suspect the ambassador relied too heavily on his popularity in Libya to protect him.
        One of the less laughable conspiracy theories going round is that he was actively involved in trying to control/manage/limit the flow of arms from Libya to Syria via Turkey. He needed to be in Benghazi because that's the power centre, Turkish representatives and armed groups leaders, plus where the shipments are leaving from.
        He was a more official presence than the CIA operatives there.
        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

        Leibniz

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
          One of the less laughable conspiracy theories going round is that he was actively involved in trying to control/manage/limit the flow of arms from Libya to Syria via Turkey. He needed to be in Benghazi because that's the power centre, Turkish representatives and armed groups leaders, plus where the shipments are leaving from.
          He was a more official presence than the CIA operatives there.
          The source for that theory would be whatever groups there might have been shipping arms to Syria. The State dept and Turks are unlikely sources. Either way, we can surmise that he wasn't there for his health.
          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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          • #95
            Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
            G W Bush was re-elected after 911 happened on his watch. How is this more terrible?
            1. There weren't any requests to beef up security in the months leading up to 2001/9/11.
            2. Bush didn't go to Vegas for a fund raiser on 9/12.
            3. Bush didn't blame some obscure internet video for the attack.
            4. Bush didn't arrest some guy who made some obscure internet video.
            5. Bush didn't pay $75000 for ads in Arab language TV to say we are sorry for some obscure internet video that caused some Arabs to hijack planes and fly them into WTC.
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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            • #96
              If Obama isn't hiding anything, why did he classify the drone tapes top secret?

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              • #97
                uh, drone footage is routinely TS/SCI...everything needs to be declassified first, not the other way around.
                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                Comment


                • #98
                  Navy replaces admiral leading Mideast strike group - Navy - Stripes

                  Scuttlebutt is that he was yanked for having something to do with a rescue effort the night of the Benghazi attack. There is also a rumor going around that General Carter Ham at Africom was relieved on the spot when he decided to mount a rescue mission against orders. That would contradict Panetta's statement that he and Ham agreed that deploying troops into an unknown situation was unwise.
                  To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                  • #99
                    This is beginning to take on "train wreck" quality.
                    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                      Navy replaces admiral leading Mideast strike group - Navy - Stripes

                      Scuttlebutt is that he was yanked for having something to do with a rescue effort the night of the Benghazi attack. There is also a rumor going around that General Carter Ham at Africom was relieved on the spot when he decided to mount a rescue mission against orders. That would contradict Panetta's statement that he and Ham agreed that deploying troops into an unknown situation was unwise.
                      Ham seems to contradict Pres. Obama here

                      Rep. Chaffetz: ..."in my meeting with Gen. Ham, I asked very specifically, "did we have resources in the area?" the asnswer is "Yes", "Did we have proximity?", the answer is "Yes". And asked why we didn't send in some of those assets, the General said he was not requested to do so."

                      -excerpt-

                      "Was he directed by the President or the Sec'ty of Defence, he said "No""
                      Top AFRICOM Leader General Carter Ham Was Never Ordered to Save US Men in Benghazi - YouTube

                      Obama: "Nobody wants to find out more what happened than I do. But we want to make sure we get it right, particularly because I have made a commitment to the families impacted as well as to the American people, we're going to bring those folks to justice. So, we're going to gather all the facts, find out exactly what happened, and make sure that it doesn't happen again but we're also going to make sure that we bring to justice those who carried out these attacks."


                      The interviewer followed up: "Were they denied requests for help during the attack?”

                      The president responded: "Well, we are finding out exactly what happened. I can tell you, as I've said over the last couple of months since this happened, the minute I found out what was happening, I gave three very clear directives. Number one, make sure that we are securing our personnel and doing whatever we need to. Number two, we're going to investigate exactly what happened so that it doesn't happen again. Number three, find out who did this so we can bring them to justice. And I guarantee you that everyone in the state department, our military, the CIA, you name it, had number one priority making sure that people were safe. These were our folks and we're going to find out exactly what happened, but what we're also going to do it make sure that we are identifying those who carried out these terrible attacks."
                      9NEWS questions President Obama on Libya attack | 9news.com

                      So if he did give those directives, who did he give them to and why weren't those directives followed?
                      In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                      Leibniz

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                        Good point. The Panetta statement suggests he and Ham talked about the situation as it was unfolding, but from Ham's later statements, it appears they were assessing matters after the fact. But Ham's statement that he wasn't "directed" by the President or the SecDef is a perfect example of exactitude...it could be he wasn't 'directed' but was consulted. There's a difference.

                        On a side note, it's interesting how Obama always includes the pledge to catch the culprits when putting off reporters asking about the administration's actions during and after of the attack. It sounds discordant in that context. Of course, we want to catch the culprits, but saying so doesn't answer the immediate question.


                        9NEWS questions President Obama on Libya attack | 9news.com

                        So if he did give those directives, who did he give them to and why weren't those directives followed?
                        Did he really say this "...as I've said over the last couple of months since this happened." But to your question, he could mean directives he gave AFTER the attack. It's not clear like many other of his statements. As you know, a fundamentally true statement can lead to a false understanding.
                        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                        Comment


                        • So if he did give those directives, who did he give them to and why weren't those directives followed?
                          we still do not know the timing. did the President know ten minutes after the attack began? did he know two hours into the attack? or after the attack was finished?

                          either way there will be a paper trail following such a directive, which once unclassified i'd be interested in seeing.
                          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                            uh, drone footage is routinely TS/SCI...everything needs to be declassified first, not the other way around.
                            It appears the administration is using the TS classification to fend off Congressional subpoenas...

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                            • z,

                              It appears the administration is using the TS classification to fend off Congressional subpoenas...
                              if so, that's a fairly weak shield to hide around. the house/senate intelligence committees can get the compartmentalized access, as can most of the national security senior leadership.
                              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                z,



                                if so, that's a fairly weak shield to hide around. the house/senate intelligence committees can get the compartmentalized access, as can most of the national security senior leadership.
                                But they can't reveal that info to congressional investigators.

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