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2012 Presidential Election - The Ups and Downs

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  • #46
    Originally posted by astralis View Post
    JAD,



    i'd say by default it IS going back to the past-- you yourself acknowledge that the goal is to prevent, or to be more accurate unroll the long "liberal trajectory" of the past 70 years.
    Asty:

    Conservatism is not about going back to the past. It's a vision of government as distinct as the liberal vision. Each defines the other always. Together, they form a unified whole, the body politic, and they share most basic values. But they do clash at times, mainly over the question of what government can and ought to do to solve social and other problems and over how government should manage its fiscal house.

    The dynamic between them is not a struggle between past and future. It's about the present and how it came to be shaped. Over time, both visions take turns dominating the body politic. So if you say conservatism is about turning the clock back, you have to say the same about liberalism.

    Politics is wheels within wheels. The biggest wheel and the slowest is the one that turns right to left, conservative to liberal, and then around again Sometime in the future, when the conservative vision has run its course, the liberal agenda will be laid before the voters. Then people will say liberals want to go back to the past. :)


    the ultimate goal is not to substitute a liberal version of social security or medicare for a conservative market-based method (although that may be an intermediate step), but to undo it altogether.
    Over my dead body.

    that's actually something we Third Wayers like to say.
    We have something in common then.

    ... the problem with the conservative-liberal split; it's more concerned about the size of government rather than the competence of government. solutions tend to be predicated on size. this dept sucks? conservative view tends to be, 'let's cut funding/eliminate it.' liberal view tends to be, 'it is underfunded.'
    Untrue. The size of government is not the problem so much as the size of government it takes to do all the things liberals want.
    Last edited by JAD_333; 22 Jun 12,, 05:47.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      That you all might convince me the repubs have a chance within a 3 page thread.

      Was slso thinking this thread would be a summary of the other 60 odd pages one.
      DE:

      "60 odd pages one" ?
      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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      • #48
        Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
        DE:

        "60 odd pages one" ?
        http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/ame...edictions.html

        I like that one - it's where we made our predictions and wagers.

        I'm feeling very good about mine, 4 months out. Obama is performing as expected - a dithering, angry child-clown. What fresh power will he cleave unto himself next in his attempt to get his way, as stupid as his way is?

        -dale

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        • #49
          Originally posted by dalem View Post
          http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/ame...edictions.html

          I like that one - it's where we made our predictions and wagers.

          I'm feeling very good about mine, 4 months out. Obama is performing as expected - a dithering, angry child-clown. What fresh power will he cleave unto himself next in his attempt to get his way, as stupid as his way is?

          -dale
          Ah, yes. That one. It was fun and more fun seeing how things turned out. I always thought Romney would take the nomination. I'm not ready to predict whether he'll win the big one. But I see a lot of positive signs. The MSM is surprisingly "interested" in him. I've seen a number of in-depth articles on his rise in business. A recent one in the Wash Post stressed his positive work ethic and his careful, collegial approach to decision-making. TIME did a cover story on his political roots, once again covering his father's rags to riches rise. The Bill Clinton and Mayor of Newark's remarks at odds with Obama's attack on Romney's business success added fuel to the fire. The CBS Face the Nation interview really showed Romney in his relaxed, one on one mode. Very impressive. His speech before the Hispanic group the other day was a tour de force and drew some positive feedback from Hispanic leaders. So, altogether things look good media-wise. Still, the polls in must-win states are running slightly in favor of Obama. I know it's too early to take the polls as an indicator of who'll win in Nov., but I had expected the bad econ news would have given Romney a slight edge. Anyway, Romney is staying squarely on message--the economy--while Obama is rope-a-doping on hot-button issues to change the subject. You can eat the Cracker Jacks, but not the prize.
          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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          • #50
            Why It's Unlikely That A Big GOP Win Will Lead to Deficit Reduction In One Chart

            quite the funny chart.
            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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            • #51
              Revenues. :)
              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                TIME did a cover story on his political roots, once again covering his father's rags to riches rise. The Bill Clinton and Mayor of Newark's remarks at odds with Obama's attack on Romney's business success added fuel to the fire.
                Makes sense for Clinton to do that, his father was a carpet salesman.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  Makes sense for Clinton to do that, his father was a carpet salesman.
                  Another reason for Clinton's remark was that he hob nobs with business leaders and rakes in a lot of corporate money for his organization. If he had seconded Obama's attack on Romney he would have teed off a lot of his contacts, many of whom have a good deal of respect for Romney's business accomplishments and intellect. Obama is trying to make Romney's success a dirty thing. That tack is for ninnies and Clinton is no ninny.
                  To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                  • #54
                    Obama is trying to make Romney's success a dirty thing.
                    obama has recently changed the mode of attack against romney, now praising his business success but pointing out that the goalposts for success in business, especially in one like bain's, is different than those of the Presidency.

                    a better-aimed attack, i think; playing for independents now.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      JAD,

                      Do you really use the word "ninny"!?!??:slap:

                      Egads!
                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by astralis View Post
                        obama has recently changed the mode of attack against romney, now praising his business success but pointing out that the goalposts for success in business, especially in one like bain's, is different than those of the Presidency.

                        a better-aimed attack, i think; playing for independents now.
                        I hadn't noticed seeing as how his first attack is the one that seems to stick out in people's minds. So Obama is rewriting the script. That's smart, and he's right: Executive techniques of business are not applicable to government. But the qualities and character a person brings to any aspect of their life will go with them when they enter into public service. And don't forget; Romney has government executive experience. Being a governor is as good an experience as you would want for a president. Obama is shaping his rap on Romney, as is to be expected, but he had better be careful. The media rap on Obama is that he's trying to deflect attention from the media. Making Romney the issue is a double edged sword.
                        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                          JAD,

                          Do you really use the word "ninny"!?!??:slap:

                          Egads!
                          I did, sir. Swell word, ain't it.:)
                          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            JAD,

                            Do you really use the word "swell"!?!?!??
                            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              JAD,

                              Do you really use the word "swell"!?!?!??
                              Whippersnapper!
                              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                              Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                JAD,

                                Do you really use the word "swell"!?!?!??
                                Sure, don't you, whippersnapper. :)
                                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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