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2012 Presidential Election - The Ups and Downs

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  • I absolutely loved it. George Romney starts the trend for Presidential candidates to release past returns and all have done since except one. His son. Man, he must be someone special. I would love to see his returns over the last ten years since what he showed in 2010, even to a novice like me, raised questions. I know you don't need a Swiss account to bet on currencies as he said. You can do it with an American account. Did he take advantage of the government amnesty in 2009 to bring home capital after that big Swiss banking scandal.? Who knows for sure? How did he get $100 million in an IRA in such a short time frame since max donation can't come close to that. Again just a novice but I smell chum in the air. No different than when Clinton said I didn't have anything to do with that woman and I knew right there he did. Romney is hiding and I can feel it just like with Clinton. He can settle things by following his father's footsteps or disavow what his father did.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
      I'm inclined to agree with you. What gets me is this stupid game of 'I say you did this; now prove I'm wrong.'
      He's filth.

      -dale

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
        I absolutely loved it. George Romney starts the trend for Presidential candidates to release past returns and all have done since except one. His son. Man, he must be someone special. I would love to see his returns over the last ten years since what he showed in 2010, even to a novice like me, raised questions. I know you don't need a Swiss account to bet on currencies as he said. You can do it with an American account. Did he take advantage of the government amnesty in 2009 to bring home capital after that big Swiss banking scandal.? Who knows for sure? How did he get $100 million in an IRA in such a short time frame since max donation can't come close to that. Again just a novice but I smell chum in the air. No different than when Clinton said I didn't have anything to do with that woman and I knew right there he did. Romney is hiding and I can feel it just like with Clinton. He can settle things by following his father's footsteps or disavow what his father did.
        Your gut feeling is based on misinformation. These things are not hard to research.

        Secret Swiss bank accounts are no more. The fact that Romney disclosed his account says it all. The IRS knows exactly what he has there and where the money came from.

        Did Some Political Figures Have Secret Swiss Accounts? - US Business News - CNBC

        His explanation that he uses it for currency trading is credible. He likely has a Swiss franc convertible account. The Swiss franc is more stable than the dollar and therefore a good trading currency. Switzerland is the 6th largest currency trading country in the world and two of its banks are among the 10 largest currency trading banks in the world. So, yes, if you have lots of money, Switzerland is a good place to trade currencies.

        Romeny's IRA is a SEP-IRA into which your employer can put up to $30k a year in cash or securities. He started it while at Bain. Although we don't know, stock from Bain investments could have been deposited before the investments rose in value due to subseqent management successes. It's like if you worked for Facebook and 100 shares of it from the early days was put into your IRA, your share of the recent IPO would be in the millions. At least when Romney starts taking money from his IRA, it will be taxed as income.

        The Secret Behind Romney
        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dalem View Post
          He's filth.

          -dale

          You don't mince words. :) IMO, he's the worst Senate majority leader of either party in modern times.
          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

          Comment


          • JAD,

            IMO, he's the worst Senate majority leader of either party in modern times
            worse than Tom Delay? Reid sucks but not that bad.

            as for romney's taxes, reid made a seriously unforced error here trying to sting romney into releasing it.

            frankly there's probably nothing wrong with romney's taxes other than the fact it's a good demonstration of how wealthy folks can take advantage of financial instruments and the global financial marketplace to drive their taxes far below the tax load of your average american.

            that's embarrassing enough for romney that he does not want to talk about this issue, nor give democratic oppo researchers more grist for the grind. dems could have continued to hit romney for this refusal but reid now calls a lot of unwelcome attention upon himself.
            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

            Comment


            • Originally posted by astralis View Post
              JAD,



              worse than Tom Delay? Reid sucks but not that bad.

              Tom Delay was Speaker of the House...now the House is a different matter.


              as for romney's taxes, reid made a seriously unforced error here trying to sting romney into releasing it.

              frankly there's probably nothing wrong with romney's taxes other than the fact it's a good demonstration of how wealthy folks can take advantage of financial instruments and the global financial marketplace to drive their taxes far below the tax load of your average american.

              that's embarrassing enough for romney that he does not want to talk about this issue, nor give democratic oppo researchers more grist for the grind. dems could have continued to hit romney for this refusal but reid now calls a lot of unwelcome attention upon himself.
              You're right. 12 years of an investor's tax returns, clean as they might be, would give the dems enough diversionary material to last 5 years...
              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

              Comment


              • JAD,

                Tom Delay was Speaker of the House
                ah yeah, good catch. OK, he's not worse than robert byrd or trent lott, IMHO...
                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                Comment


                • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                  JAD,



                  ah yeah, good catch. OK, he's not worse than robert byrd or trent lott, IMHO...
                  Yeah, he is. :) He'll look you right in the eye and spew BS.
                  To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                    that's embarrassing enough for romney that he does not want to talk about this issue, nor give democratic oppo researchers more grist for the grind. dems could have continued to hit romney for this refusal but reid now calls a lot of unwelcome attention upon himself.
                    Why should Romney talk about it anyway? He made money, he paid taxes at appropriate rates while taking advantage of legal shelters and options. End of story. The only people pretending to be interested are a small clutch of dickweeds who did exactly the same thing, and they are clearly racists and homophobes so we should ignore them.

                    -dale

                    Comment


                    • dale,

                      Why should Romney talk about it anyway? He made money, he paid taxes at appropriate rates while taking advantage of legal shelters and options. End of story.
                      let's put it another way; if he didn't find the low tax rates he paid politically embarrassing, then there would be little reason for him NOT to release more of his tax records, like most modern presidential candidates.
                      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                        dale,



                        let's put it another way; if he didn't find the low tax rates he paid politically embarrassing, then there would be little reason for him NOT to release more of his tax records, like most modern presidential candidates.
                        Haha, blow it out your ass, two-face. You stood on the argument for months that anyone who even asked a question about Obama's birth certificate automatically delegitimized themselves; that the question itself had no value. Choke on some of the same for a while.

                        -dale

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                          dale,



                          let's put it another way; if he didn't find the low tax rates he paid politically embarrassing, then there would be little reason for him NOT to release more of his tax records, like most modern presidential candidates.
                          Now you're sounding like Reid and the Obama crowd:

                          If there's nothing embarrassing in the returns, then there is no reason not to release them?

                          That's a classic 'if-then' fallacy. It just doesn't follow that there is something embarrassing in them if they are not released.

                          We all know the score. Obama's people want to subject Romney to the Chinese water torture. They'll mine his returns for innuendos to make Romney look like an alien to the ordinary working man. Yes, his father released 12 years worth. Did he get elected?
                          Last edited by JAD_333; 08 Aug 12,, 20:37.
                          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                          Comment


                          • dale,

                            You stood on the argument for months that anyone who even asked a question about Obama's birth certificate automatically delegitimized themselves; that the question itself had no value. Choke on some of the same for a while.
                            dude, you have a SERIOUS problem with assuming things-- just like the last time you assumed my neutral statement wasn't. did i even state that this entire episode was a positive? did i state that agreed with reid?

                            as for obama's birth certificate, it was a legitimate question prior to him actually releasing it. he DID put paid to the question by releasing his official birth certificate in 2008, so anyone who asked the question later WAS a crank.

                            romney has not been quite as complete. given that this incompleteness also has political costs for romney, i merely noted that romney must have already made the political calculation that the alternative would be worse. in this case the only person choking, really, is romney-- this is a no-win scenario for him.
                            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                            Comment


                            • JAD,

                              Now you're sounding like Reid and the Obama crowd:

                              If there's nothing embarrassing in the returns, then there is no reason not to release them?

                              That's a classic 'if-then' fallacy. It just doesn't follow that there is something embarrassing in them if they are not released.
                              note my words carefully. i didn't say that there was anything wrong or illegal in the returns, as reid is insuinating. however, it's perfectly true that something legal can be politically embarrassing. a 13.9% tax rate, for instance.

                              there IS a political cost to NOT releasing the returns; polls out there show that a good majority of americans want romney to release more tax returns, and this is something that the Dems are beating on as hard as they can.

                              romney has decided that this cost pales in comparison to the cost he will pay if he DOES release them. you say:

                              They'll mine his returns for innuendos to make Romney look like an alien to the ordinary working man.
                              of course the dems will. and romney must have some inkling that such a mining would get some traction. otherwise, if the returns were completely political harmless, he would have released them and made this whole thing a non-story.
                              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                JAD,



                                note my words carefully.
                                Noted. You said:

                                let's put it another way; if he didn't find the low tax rates he paid politically embarrassing, then there would be little reason for him NOT to release more of his tax records, like most modern presidential candidates.
                                The inverse is that you said they must be embarrassing since he didn't release them.

                                i didn't say that there was anything wrong or illegal in the returns, as reid is insuinating. however, it's perfectly true that something legal can be politically embarrassing. a 13.9% tax rate, for instance.
                                That's what the Obama people say. Then they go on to infer something is wrong because he won't release them. Politically embarrassing is my dem neighbor who says, 'why the hell don't the Obama people report what they know to the IRS?'

                                All that the country has a right to know is whether Romney cheated on his taxes, and that's it. The IRS accepted his returns. You don't have to be a genius to know that means his returns were done legally. What the Obama people want is ammo to embarrass him. They just want to crow about the rate he paid, but the rate is not a legal issue.

                                there IS a political cost to NOT releasing the returns; polls out there show that a good majority of americans want romney to release more tax returns, and this is something that the Dems are beating on as hard as they can.
                                The political cost won't be known until the very end. And besides the question ought to be whether they would vote for him anyway if he doesn't release them. Most of the people saying he should release them are not going to vote for him, are they?

                                romney has decided that this cost pales in comparison to the cost he will pay if he DOES release them. you say:

                                of course the dems will. and romney must have some inkling that such a mining would get some traction. otherwise, if the returns were completely political harmless, he would have released them and made this whole thing a non-story.
                                Distractions give the dems traction. Come on, asty, you know the returns of a wealthy candidate never become a non-story no matter how scrupulous they are. Even if he paid a higher rate, there will be other questions raised. Every stock you sold is shown in your return. What if one of them was in a company that killed dolphins or was fined for product liability...what if he gave to a charity that was later found to be misusing donations... the list goes on and on. Distraction after distraction.
                                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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