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2012 Presidential Election - The Ups and Downs

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  • 2012 Presidential Election - The Ups and Downs

    I got to thinking about some of the consquences of the 2012 Presidential Election.

    Suppose Romney wins...
    The Republicans will -just like the Democrats in 2008 failed to do- have to put up or shut up when it comes to the economy. The GOP has spent the last 4 years railing against Obama, Pelosi, Reid etc and their fumbling of jobs and growth etc. Well boys, you just might get your chance. You damn well better have something in mind...and it sure as shit better not be pointing to what a failure Obama was. That was one of his biggest mistakes with regard to Bush.

    And...

    One unequivocal downside to Obama losing: The Left, Hollywood, MoveOn.org, Code Pink etc will, after a not-even-close-to-being-mysterious silence for the past four years, suddenly regain the ability to speak and once again start railing against the warmongering GOP every time a drone finds and sends another terrorist to hereafter.

    I can't say that I've missed that constant cacophony of liberal-minded pacifistic bullshit
    Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

  • #2
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    I got to thinking about some of the consquences of the 2012 Presidential Election.

    Suppose Romney wins...
    The Republicans will -just like the Democrats in 2008 failed to do- have to put up or shut up when it comes to the economy. The GOP has spent the last 4 years railing against Obama, Pelosi, Reid etc and their fumbling of jobs and growth etc. Well boys, you just might get your chance. You damn well better have something in mind...and it sure as shit better not be pointing to what a failure Obama was. That was one of his biggest mistakes with regard to Bush.

    And...

    One unequivocal downside to Obama losing: The Left, Hollywood, MoveOn.org, Code Pink etc will, after a not-even-close-to-being-mysterious silence for the past four years, suddenly regain the ability to speak and once again start railing against the warmongering GOP every time a drone finds and sends another terrorist to hereafter.

    I can't say that I've missed that constant cacophony of liberal-minded pacifistic bullshit
    Ah the vicious circle known as party politics...gotta love it.
    "Draft beer, not people."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Red Team View Post
      Ah the vicious circle known as party politics...gotta love it.
      I know right?
      Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
        I know right?
        I'm interested to see how the extreme wings of both the right and left develop. Both remnants of OWS and dissatisfied Obama supporters and RP supporters/ more minarchist Republicans.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well. Someone is full of piss and vinegar today.
          If a hundred million more would pipe up like you the right and the left would be filling their underwear.

          Sadly, as long as we have only two major players in politics not much is going to change except that huge political pendulum.
          Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh, goodie. Another thread on the different economic approaches of the two candidates. Well, this one does have a twist. Instead of debating the merits of the their approaches, we can speculate on what will happen to the winner if he fails to deliver in X period of time, X being the mystery factor. There is also a Y factor. That would be measure of success. For example X could equal 2 years and Y could equal employment down to 6%.

            Anyone care to set some parameters for success and failure?

            TH, you are absolutely right about Code Pink, Move.on and the others. Nothing doing for them these days. The conservative groups have the stage right now. When the fromer come back, I'll see it as a good sign. :)
            To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

            Comment


            • #7
              frankly, the rise of the more extreme members of the Tea Party, the birthers, and other conspiracy minded folks on the right was edifying in its way: that insaniy is not limited to one political affiliation alone!

              the "romney wins" scenario is not enough info; we'd have to make educated guesses as to which party holds congress.

              most likely scenario is continued divided government, which means romney will get a few of his pet projects through, but anything major and our system, as it inevitably does, will bog it down in open partisan warfare.

              wonder if in such a scenario the two parties might not come to some sort of tacit deal: a revised ryan plan for a revised obama, i guess now romneycare.
              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                Oh, goodie. Another thread on the different economic approaches of the two candidates. Well, this one does have a twist. Instead of debating the merits of the their approaches, we can speculate on what will happen to the winner if he fails to deliver in X period of time, X being the mystery factor. There is also a Y factor. That would be measure of success. For example X could equal 2 years and Y could equal employment down to 6%.
                Honestly I have zero faith in either candidate. I'm a very results oriented person so when I see some demagogue-like figure proclaiming "FOLLOW ME!" I give a small smirk of amusement and amble along just to see what this supremely confident politician will do. I'm a firm believer in, as I said before, "put up or shut up". If you can't deliver the goods, sit over there and keep your mouth shut!

                Another thought that's been rattling around in my head: Mitt Romney isn't quite the devil that George W Bush, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton was/is made out to be, a deeply polarizing figure that is demonized by the Left or Right. It'd be interesting to see what kind of president he'd make.

                It's all academic anyway, including this thread. Obama will win the election and the Right will have to howl in pain and disgust for another four years.
                Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                Comment


                • #9
                  TH,

                  It's all academic anyway, including this thread. Obama will win the election and the Right will have to howl in pain and disgust for another four years.
                  i really wonder what an Obama victory will mean for the future of the GOP.

                  i'd like to think the sane folks in the GOP would see this as a repudiation of romney/GOP's not-so-subtle slide to the right, and try hard to re-orient the party towards where it used to be in the HW Bush days.

                  but, the realistic side of me says that it's going to be a nasty four years as the GOP sees the defeat of Romney as another example of a moderate-turned-conservative Republican (in the vein of McCain) loser, and further slides into Obama Derangement Syndrome.
                  There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by astralis View Post
                    TH,

                    i really wonder what an Obama victory will mean for the future of the GOP.

                    i'd like to think the sane folks in the GOP would see this as a repudiation of romney/GOP's not-so-subtle slide to the right, and try hard to re-orient the party towards where it used to be in the HW Bush days.

                    but, the realistic side of me says that it's going to be a nasty four years as the GOP sees the defeat of Romney as another example of a moderate-turned-conservative Republican (in the vein of McCain) loser, and further slides into Obama Derangement Syndrome.
                    So you are predicting Romney will turn hard right now that he's won the primary, AND govern from the hard right? Really?

                    -dale

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      dale,

                      So you are predicting Romney will turn hard right now that he's won the primary, AND govern from the hard right? Really?
                      no. i'm saying in the event of a Romney loss, how will Republicans/conservatives interpret such a loss.

                      do Republicans think, "well Romney turning right was a loser for us," or do they think "well Romney was a moderate-- and at best, a wishywashy latecomer to conservatism just like McCain...never again."
                      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by astralis View Post
                        dale,

                        no. i'm saying in the event of a Romney loss, how will Republicans/conservatives interpret such a loss.

                        do Republicans think, "well Romney turning right was a loser for us," or do they think "well Romney was a moderate-- and at best, a wishywashy latecomer to conservatism just like McCain...never again."
                        Ahh. Hard to say at this point - depends on WHY he loses in that scenario. A lot of us conservatives/Repubs are of the opinion that McCain lost, not because he wasn't conservative enough (although we don't think he was that either) but because he ran a crappy, half-hearted campaign against the shiny new black empty guy into whom everyone poured their hopes and expectations. Obama this time around has had all the shiny knocked off and is all weak, no strong. He's very beatable IF Romney wants to beat him.

                        If Romney moves too far back to the center and also loses then yes, I could definitely see that as a trigger for a push to move the GOP further to the right. But sure as shinola that push wouldn't come from the RNC - it'ud come naturally from the Tea Party folks pushing their kinds of candidates.

                        -dale

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                        • #13
                          If the voters decide to stick with Obama, it will be pointless unless they can manage to boot a busload of Tea Party members out of Congress. But it will be hard to do as the home districts of most of the Tea Party members are heavily conservative.
                          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If Romney moves too far back to the center and also loses then yes, I could definitely see that as a trigger for a push to move the GOP further to the right. But sure as shinola that push wouldn't come from the RNC - it'ud come naturally from the Tea Party folks pushing their kinds of candidates.
                            i'm wondering if there's a credible scenario where there's a trigger for a push to move the GOP further to the middle, akin to what jeb bush has been saying lately.
                            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Jeb Bush harkening back to Reagan as the salad days of moderate Republicans is rather amusing. When Reagan ran for president the media and old time Republicans were lamenting that Regan was too far right.

                              If you stop to think about it, it does seem odd for Jeb to be out there complaining about how far right the GOP has become. Why's he doing it? Aside from the obvious--he's posturing for a run 4 years from now if Romney loses--there is a possibility he's trying to help Romney--gasp. He does that
                              by making him seem more conservative than other Republican leaders, himself included.
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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