In a first, gas and other fuels are top US export

[kato]

Highway = Autobahn? Speed limit on Autobahn? Since when? Unless you talk section limit because of the traffic.

About two-thirds of all Autobahn highway sections in Germany (by length) are currently speed-limited, usually to 130 km/h (81 mph), 120 km/h (75 mph) or 100 km/h (62 mph).

Just wonder how they do the weekly buys, never seen people with bags in trams or trains.

That's what we have cars for.

Seriously the public transportation in all German cities I have been (all in former W. Germany) are terrific.

Over 70% of Germans do not live in the 82 cities of more than 100,000 people in Germany. And once you're out in the sticks it gets complicated with public transport.

[Roosveltrepub]

In other words, taxations designed to modify human behavior - aren't. And the sole result of the extreme taxes on petroleum is enrichment of government coffers. If that money is used strictly for improving roads and highways, then it might be justified. I doubt that is the case in most nations, though. It's simply a nice way to pump up a general fund, and although people complain, they cannot cease using it because for most it is absolutely required for modern life. It's like taxing oxygen.

where does the increased demand for fuel efficent models fit in with this? If we drive the same but increase the number of fuel efficent models on the road as happens everytime gas goes up arent we using less per capita? I don't think it's really an article of contention that when prices rise in the USDA the sales of low kpg car falls and the sales of high kpg cars rises. So, to claim price affect behavior runs contrary to both our experience and basic economics. Of course price of a commodity modifies behavior.

[Roosveltrepub]

I remember when gas was a dollar/gallon. It wasn't "way back then" either. I drove a reworked Honda civic that gave me 50 mpg on the highway. I miss that car when I now have to commute 150 miles a day. Wisconsin, were you delighted the very first time you had to pay 3.25 a gallon? Delighted was not even close to what I felt.

I can get gas at Costco for 3.12/gal. Manny other local places are still clinging to 3.35 or more. I am keeping my fingers crossed that we can break the psychological barrier of $3.00/gallon.

we dont have recoverable crude that could support 2 dollar gasoline. Wishing it doesnt make it true. I wish it but we use so much more per capita than anyone else it's far from the truth. I do think focusing on efficency could help drive the price back by slowing the growth in demand as it did in the 80s

[Bathursto]

Of course it does... usually to a degree smaller than the taxes inventors would like, however, and those that suffer the most are those least able to afford the taxes. High fuel taxes don't prevent the wealthy from flying about in G-III or cruising in motor yachts.

Is government-sponsored behavior modification via taxation something you deem desirable? I refer not to laws regarding criminal behavior, but to consumer habits.

Well, yes, when necessary. The free market puts people in competition with each other, as it should, but people will do a lot of really wacky and sometimes stupid things to get ahead. I don't blame the markets for this, but it does make me recognize that there need to be limits on what people can do. Laws derived from the libertarian's highest law: "Thou shalt not cause harm to thy neighbor" will be both criminal and civil, and the principle also gives rise to a number of other taxes, or "pressures," that should be exerted on the public.

For instance, there should be a tax on gasoline, because there are a lot of people out there who (apparently) do not understand how science and thermal radiation works and therefore, do not take the threat of climate change seriously. Pollution is a negative externality that some consumers simply do not care about. This side effect negatively affects their neighbors and future generations, and therefore, taxes are necessary to guide them away from irresponsible behavior.

Ah yes, the government knows best. The cattle roaming our landscape cannot make valid economic decisions for themselves.

I would guess we have differing views on the role (and size) of government.

I'm not saying that the government knows best. I truly believe that if people are treated like adults, and given the responsibilities of adults, they will behave like adults . . . generally speaking.

But you cannot deny that there are whackos and other stupid/distracted people out there that need to have their thinking done for them. They have chosen not to behave rationally, and when their irrational choices negatively affect others, the government should step in.

There is not a whole lot of stuff that the government needs to be doing, but those things that it should be doing are absolutely essential. And not everything that the government has to take care of can pay taxes. Criminals, for instance, are not usually good taxpayers, but we still have to spend money on courts and prisons. That money has to come from somewhere, and the government could do worse than levying those taxes on gasoline.

[Chogy]

But you cannot deny that there are whackos and other stupid/distracted people out there that need to have their thinking done for them. They have chosen not to behave rationally, and when their irrational choices negatively affect others, the government should step in.

Why tax fuel, then? Tax the behaviors themselves.

Hang about a diesel truck stop and watch independent truckers filling their rigs with diesel. The $$ dial flashes rapidly through $100, $200, $300, etc. This man is transporting goods, providing a service, and trying to keep his family fed. And he is about to go bankrupt.

Another guy at a minimum wage job fills his Volkswagen Rabbit and is looking for change under his floor mats to pay the bill. He needs his car for work.

Are these behaviors that should be discouraged by high fuel taxes?

On the other hand, those that can afford it don't miss a beat when they fill their cigarette boats with hi-octane fuel and go plowing through Florida waters at 75mph with a squeaking female next to him. Or fly to Aspen in a Gulfstream.

If you want to "punish" people for carbon liberation, be sure the correct people are made to suffer. Forcing the average working joe to pay $4, or $7 per gallon is not the way to do it.

[bonehead]

we dont have recoverable crude that could support 2 dollar gasoline. Wishing it doesnt make it true. I wish it but we use so much more per capita than anyone else it's far from the truth. I do think focusing on efficency could help drive the price back by slowing the growth in demand as it did in the 80s

Sure we do and our proven reserves are getting larger every day. Once we work out a long term deal with Canada we will have the ability to tell OPEC to eff themselves because we will be able to do just fine without them. Put an end to oil speculators driving the price up on the "open market" and stop exporting it and prices would be very close to 2 bucks a gallon. Of course you also have to stop government from raising taxes on the commodity as well. 2 dollars/gallon is viable, but you have to cut through the governmental red tape and layers of greed built into the current system. Continued advances in efficiency and continued development of other forms of energy must also be put in the equation. Controlling our population growth would also do wonders for reducing future energy needs.

[Roosveltrepub]

Sure we do and our proven reserves are getting larger every day. Once we work out a long term deal with Canada we will have the ability to tell OPEC to eff themselves because we will be able to do just fine without them. Put an end to oil speculators driving the price up on the "open market" and stop exporting it and prices would be very close to 2 bucks a gallon. Of course you also have to stop government from raising taxes on the commodity as well. 2 dollars/gallon is viable, but you have to cut through the governmental red tape and layers of greed built into the current system. Continued advances in efficiency and continued development of other forms of energy must also be put in the equation. Controlling our population growth would also do wonders for reducing future energy needs.

I wasnt disagreeing there are tremendous reserves in oil shale and sands. We are also not Canada and we arent recovering that oil at a cost that would allow 2 dollar gasoline. Plus we drill no oil it is exxon mobil et al that do and they do to make a profit not give us cheap gas. they are international corporations with a vested interest in high prices to maximize shareholder return as they should.

[bonehead]

I wasnt disagreeing there are tremendous reserves in oil shale and sands. We are also not Canada and we arent recovering that oil at a cost that would allow 2 dollar gasoline. Plus we drill no oil it is exxon mobil et al that do and they do to make a profit not give us cheap gas. they are international corporations with a vested interest in high prices to maximize shareholder return as they should.

The point was that between The U.S. and Canada we have more than enough crude to get by with for a very long time. A long term deal with Canada would also insulate us from price spikes and shortages every time some piss ant ME ruler gets a bug up his ass about anything.

I hear you about the international companies doing the work and maximizing their profits but as a nation we really have to examine whether or not it really has to be this way. Cheap oil is vital to our economy and our national interests. Do we really want all that to be held hostage by corporate greed? Nationalizing is not an option but surely we can come up with a better solution. Decoupling our oil from the world market would save consumers trillions.

[Doktor]

Please tax it more and you will have ads like this, too

[Roosveltrepub]

The point was that between The U.S. and Canada we have more than enough crude to get by with for a very long time. A long term deal with Canada would also insulate us from price spikes and shortages every time some piss ant ME ruler gets a bug up his ass about anything.

I hear you about the international companies doing the work and maximizing their profits but as a nation we really have to examine whether or not it really has to be this way. Cheap oil is vital to our economy and our national interests. Do we really want all that to be held hostage by corporate greed? Nationalizing is not an option but surely we can come up with a better solution. Decoupling our oil from the world market would save consumers trillions.

that would require a socialist intervention into the market place and whoever we contracted with to be willing to surrender those future profits.