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  • gunnut,

    How about those who are here to work, but don't want to be American? Give them a path to...?
    for those, i'd like to see an expansion of the Guest Worker Program.

    in fact, i believe if we catch illegals we should make it mandatory for them to join the Guest Worker Program. at that time, they should be allowed the option of choosing two paths-- one towards green card/citizenship, but where they pay a non-deductible tax one tier higher than they should be (until they fully naturalize) as punishment; the other should record them as being here on a temporary basis for 5 years, where they pay a non-deductible tax at a regular rate, but where they get limited rights/benefits. at the end of that time, they get the option of getting sent back or picking one of the two choices again.

    i think it'd be a great deal all around. US ensures illegals are either sacrificing to become citizens, or at the minimum paying into the system (and getting recorded, making it easier to track if they commit any crimes).
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

    Comment


    • Originally posted by The Black Ghost View Post
      Go Republicans. Fixing problems by dumping them on someone else.
      Obama = Democrat
      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

      Comment


      • Originally posted by astralis View Post
        gunnut,



        for those, i'd like to see an expansion of the Guest Worker Program.

        in fact, i believe if we catch illegals we should make it mandatory for them to join the Guest Worker Program. at that time, they should be allowed the option of choosing two paths-- one towards green card/citizenship, but where they pay a non-deductible tax one tier higher than they should be (until they fully naturalize) as punishment; the other should record them as being here on a temporary basis for 5 years, where they pay a non-deductible tax at a regular rate, but where they get limited rights/benefits. at the end of that time, they get the option of getting sent back or picking one of the two choices again.

        i think it'd be a great deal all around. US ensures illegals are either sacrificing to become citizens, or at the minimum paying into the system (and getting recorded, making it easier to track if they commit any crimes).
        I can live with that.

        Still, I think we need a secure border. For example, what if one of these illegals registered in the "guest worker program" goes back to Mexico, then comes over with another alias and a fake social security number? I guess we could prosecute him for fraud if we catch him again. But that would require another huge bureaucracy.

        Bottom line, I am not opposed to guest worker program, but we must also have a secure border.
        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
          ... we need a path to allow those here who are hard working and chasing the american dream a path to legality...
          That's it; start off with an illegal act and end up getting rewarded for it.

          What these folks need to have stamped in their consciousness is that being in the US illegally won't ever, ever lead to legal residency.

          But if we truly need their labor, then we should let as many in as there are jobs for them and after 5 to 10 years consider their application for permanent residency. And while we're at it, require them to have their babies in Mexico.
          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

          Comment


          • gunnut,

            Still, I think we need a secure border. For example, what if one of these illegals registered in the "guest worker program" goes back to Mexico, then comes over with another alias and a fake social security number? I guess we could prosecute him for fraud if we catch him again. But that would require another huge bureaucracy.
            i'd imagine some biometric devices would stop that real quick. in any case, i'm not sure who would want to commit this type of fraud-- don't see the benefit of doing so.

            from an illegal immigrant POV, too, a massively expanded program like the one i describe would be fairly beneficial because it would reduce the incidence of employer abuse/blackmail with the threat of deportation.

            but we must also have a secure border.
            certainly. from what i understand, though, we've got a more secure border than ever.
            Last edited by astralis; 21 Oct 11,, 19:09.
            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

            Comment


            • Originally posted by astralis View Post
              certainly. from what i understand, though, we've got a more secure border than ever.
              Part of it is because the economy is bad and they can't find jobs here. Some of them are going back, like Mantequilla, the Last of the Meheecans...
              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dago View Post
                Wonder around where? :)
                No man's land. You know that space at the airports between the plane ant the passport control or between two passport controls on land border ;)

                What if no country granted asylum, Mexico refused entry, where do you go from there?
                Mexico or any other country is not able to close the border for its' own citizens.

                Here is another one, what if they aren't Mexican citizens?
                They weill be deported to either the country from where they made the entrance or to their native country
                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                  How about those who are here to work, but don't want to be American? Give them a path to...?
                  Out of curiousity how many said they wanted to remain mexican after Reagan's amnesty. There is always a fringe element and too make decuiso0ns based on 1/10 of 1 percent of a group would be wrong. They'd turn down citizenship if doing so meant increased chance of deportation like I'd turn down Pizza. I am all for providing a path to citizenship and securing the borders and tossing out any assghats too stupid to realize they left Mexico for a reason
                  Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                  ~Ronald Reagan

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                    Out of curiousity how many said they wanted to remain mexican after Reagan's amnesty. There is always a fringe element and too make decuiso0ns based on 1/10 of 1 percent of a group would be wrong. They'd turn down citizenship if doing so meant increased chance of deportation like I'd turn down Pizza. I am all for providing a path to citizenship and securing the borders and tossing out any assghats too stupid to realize they left Mexico for a reason
                    I'm not sure if that's a fringe element. There are a lot of Mexicans who come here to work, save money, then retire early back in Mexico.

                    One reason that I suspect why so many people took amnesty is because we didn't have a good guest worker program.

                    I'm all for a secure border with a good guest worker program. But then we do extend this guest worker program to other countries? Can Chinese and Filipino and Pakistani and Ethiopian just come over as guest workers like Mexicans? Or do we discriminate?
                    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                      But then we do extend this guest worker program to other countries? Can Chinese and Filipino and Pakistani and Ethiopian just come over as guest workers like Mexicans? Or do we discriminate?
                      We could require that only nationals who can swim or walk home are eligible.
                      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                        We could require that only nationals who can swim or walk home are eligible.


                        This reminds me of a bad joke:

                        Why do Central America or Mexico rarely win Olympic medals?

                        Because anybody that can run, jump or swim are already in the U.S.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by RollingWave View Post
                          Depends, for example if the US decide to just drop them off in Mexico regardless (obviously that would be a serious diplomatic problem for sure but lets just say..) they probably just wonder around the border area avoiding the authority of either side. unless they're somehow wealthy enough to fly to somewhere else.

                          Of course there were example of guys being stuck at airport for years for various reasons (like their former country blewup while he was abroad)
                          So, essentially utilizing a non-lethal means such as a water cannon and force them to walk back across the border? While the Mexican Military employs a water cannon also. Sounds like a mess to be in, both sides shooting water cannons at ya.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                            No man's land. You know that space at the airports between the plane ant the passport control or between two passport controls on land border ;)
                            Yeah, I watched the movie "The Terminal" with Tom Hanks. How does some guy spend 15 years I think at an Airport? Even in Prison you get a conjugal visit, not to say he didn't have one, say on rack of the baggage belt.

                            Mexico or any other country is not able to close the border for its' own citizens.
                            They can close there border, put up a sign that says "Alto", and deny entry of Border Protection personal. Of course tourism would suffer greatly. :)

                            They weill be deported to either the country from where they made the entrance or to their native country
                            How do you prove that, if the person is not cooperative? I mean he could look Mexican, but in reality, was raised in China, and just so happen to float all the way over here. LMAO.

                            Anyways, if he doesn't have citizenship for whatever reason, essentially no citizenship then the US would force him to walk across the border and Mexico would do the same.

                            Sorry, this thread is just funny. Mexico complaining about the US deporting criminals that are Mexican nationals.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dago View Post
                              Yeah, I watched the movie "The Terminal" with Tom Hanks. How does some guy spend 15 years I think at an Airport? Even in Prison you get a conjugal visit, not to say he didn't have one, say on rack of the baggage belt.
                              Maybe because it is a movie?


                              They can close there border, put up a sign that says "Alto", and deny entry of Border Protection personal. Of course tourism would suffer greatly. :)
                              I don't know if any country in the world can deny entrance to own nationals. Even in a scenario you described.

                              I know that if there is a sign on my border saying "Стоп/Stop/Halt" I can walk to the border police with the hands in the air and will get "collected" in.


                              How do you prove that, if the person is not cooperative? I mean he could look Mexican, but in reality, was raised in China, and just so happen to float all the way over here. LMAO.

                              Anyways, if he doesn't have citizenship for whatever reason, essentially no citizenship then the US would force him to walk across the border and Mexico would do the same.
                              I don't know how do they do it, what I know is that our police (which is like M-grade compared to ICE or FBI) always figures out the the immigrants' nationality, the identity and from where they entered. Again, don't ask me how, it's one of those known unknowns to me.

                              Sorry, this thread is just funny. Mexico complaining about the US deporting criminals that are Mexican nationals.
                              Ironic would be a better word.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                                Maybe because it is a movie?
                                Based on:

                                Mehran Karimi Nasseri

                                Mehran Karimi Nasseri (مهران کریمی ناصری pronounced [meɦˈrɔːn kʲæriːˈmiː nɔːseˈriː]; born 1942), also known as Sir, Alfred Mehran (including the comma),[1] is an Iranian refugee who lived in the departure lounge of Terminal One in Charles de Gaulle Airport from 8 August 1988 until July 2006, when he was hospitalized for an unspecified ailment. His autobiography has been published as a book and he may have been the basis for the movie The Terminal.

                                Current position

                                Nasseri was expelled from Iran in 1977 for protests against the Shah and after a long battle, involving applications in several countries, was awarded refugee status by the United Nations High Commission for refugees in Belgium. This permitted residence in any European country.

                                Having claimed to have one British parent, although he has produced no evidence to support this, he decided to settle in the UK in 1986, but en route to there in 1988, his briefcase containing his papers was stolen in Paris.[3] Despite this setback, he boarded the plane for London but was promptly returned to France when he failed to present a passport to British immigration. He was initially arrested by the French, but then released as his entry to the airport was legal and he had no country of origin to be returned to; thus began his residency at Terminal 1.
                                His case was later taken on by French human rights lawyer Christian Bourget. In 1992, French courts ruled that, having entered the country legally, he could not be expelled from the airport, but it could not grant him permission to enter France.

                                Attempts were then made to have new documents issued from Belgium, but the authorities there would only do so if Naserri presented himself in person. However, under Belgian law a refugee who voluntarily leaves a country that has accepted him cannot return. In 1995, the Belgian authorities granted permission for him to return, but only if he agreed to live there under supervision of a social worker. Naserri refused this on the grounds of wanting to enter the UK as originally intended.[3]

                                Nasseri's life at the airport ended in July 2006 when he was hospitalized and his sitting place dismantled. Towards the end of January 2007, he left the hospital and was looked after by the airport's branch of the French Red Cross; he was lodged for a few weeks in a hotel close to the airport. On March 6, 2007, he transferred to an Emmaus charity reception centre in Paris's twentieth arrondissement. As of 2008, he continues to live in a Paris shelter.[3]

                                If you weren't aware, I wasn't aware until I came across reading a review of the movie in which I searched his name. It's amazing how someone can spend almost about a lifetime at an airport. I guess though, through the French legal system that allowed him to remain in the airport, perhaps he should of been granted asylum? Not allowed to reside in an airport, or either deported back to his home country. It's amazing how the French would just let him remain within the airport. Alternatively, I guess he could of became violent, or violated the law, get arrested. At least you will get shelter and food. And either deported or granted asylum. If I was in that situation, i'd probably force my way through, and get arrested. You get food. Bed. And your case gets legal recognition. It took about 4 years for his case to make it to court. I guess after waiting 4 years, 17 years isn't much also. I am thinking they had to offer him a flight back to Iran? Even if they didn't fly directly there. And he chose to remain and stay, perhaps.
                                Last edited by Dago; 21 Oct 11,, 23:05.
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