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  • #31
    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    You mean like the way Obamacare was paid for?
    exactly...but of course it doesnt pay for itself according to you.
    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
    ~Ronald Reagan

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    • #32
      Originally posted by gunnut View Post
      My city's trash pickup is contracted to a private company. I'm sure if my city shuts down, someone will organize the hire the same contractors to pick up the trash. Life will go on.
      LOLOLOLOL the name of that some is GovE R. Ment
      Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
      ~Ronald Reagan

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
        exactly...but of course it doesnt pay for itself according to you.
        Of course not. Let's see...what was that tax? Oh yes, tanning tax. What was that for exactly? How about the 1099 form that was mercifully killed in a vote? Above all, why does Obamacare need to have money transfered from Medicare to pay for it?

        You haven't addressed the point of 10 years worth of taxes to pay for 6 years of service. That's how CBO was able to say Obamacare was deficit "neutral" from 2011 to 2020. How about from 2021 to 2030? Do we suspend services from 2021 to 2024 so we can have 10 yeard of tax receipts to pay for 6 years of service?
        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
          LOLOLOLOL the name of that some is GovE R. Ment
          NO! Government is not the only one to provide services. Let's say post office shuts down. FedEx and UPS, among others, will be happy to take over. Are they "GovE R. Ment?"

          The private contractor that picks up trash is NOT the government. It will work for whoever pays for its services.

          I think you have trouble understanding the very basic concept of free enterprise.

          I don't even need government to provide fire, first aid, or policing. Ever heard of volunteer firefighters? Do we really need the government to supply first aid? Police is a little tough, but given the right people and the right price, we can have private contractors enforcing laws.

          I see your problem. Your problem is that you think the government is this magical organization that provides for all the services anyone could ever need. You are brought up by this delusional dictator named Franklyn Roosevelt who, like a drug pusher, hooked generations of Americans on the nanny state. It's time to grow up.
          Last edited by gunnut; 08 Apr 11,, 23:13.
          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by gunnut View Post
            It's time to grow up.
            Time too grow up with private contractors being police, and volunteer firefighters and paramedics? while your at it, just abolish the Military, CIA, DOD and every other Government organization. We can live by the paper dollar, and schools only operating on a profit!
            sigpic

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Dago View Post
              Time too grow up with private contractors being police, and volunteer firefighters and paramedics? while your at it, just abolish the Military, CIA, DOD and every other Government organization. We can live by the paper dollar, and schools only operating on a profit!
              Military is specified in the constitution as a duty of the federal government.

              I don't see the constitution saying anything about providing for the police, firefighters, paramedics, education, unemployment, retirement, housing, food stamps, ... etc. The list goes on and on.

              Read the constitution. I know it must be a very humorous document to you.
              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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              • #37
                Of course, but the Constitution was also written in a era that was quite different from today, it was foot in mouth about slavery for example, there isn't a single (functioning) state in the world today that doesn't have public education for example.

                I'd certainly agree that the government could get smaller, though any way to tackling it must be done in a very calculated and carefully planned matter. letting it just blow itself up is obviously not a realistic option unless your willing to see hell go loose .

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                  Military is specified in the constitution as a duty of the federal government.

                  I don't see the constitution saying anything about providing for the police, firefighters, paramedics, education, unemployment, retirement, housing, food stamps, ... etc. The list goes on and on.

                  Read the constitution. I know it must be a very humorous document to you.
                  Simple response -

                  Article I, section 8 of the U.S. Constitution

                  The Necessary and Proper Clause (also known as the Elastic Clause, the Basket Clause, the Coefficient Clause, and the Sweeping Clause[1]) is the provision in Article One of the United States Constitution, section 8, clause 18:

                  “The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."
                  Nothing has been deemed unconstitutional, from what you specified, so everything you outlined is deemed constitutional until the supreme law of the land, in case you are ignorant or flunked out of civics class, is the Supreme Court decides it's unconstitutional.

                  Here we have your view, against centuries of many office holders, lawyers, and justices. So, if Gunnut says it's unconstitutional, then it must be unconstitutional. . Even if you were to run on that platform, and god forbid actually got elected to the national office which is the Presidency, you still could not get your way.

                  You say the document is humorous to me, but you look like your ignorant of the document.

                  If you are going to have an ideology about something, don't hide behind the constitution. I specifically did not ask you about the constitution, I asked about your ideology, that everything should be privatized. If you believe that, then why not the Military and self defense of a nation? And if you disagree, please explain your reasoning why we should have a standing Military, and don't use the Constitution as the basis. I do not wish to know the current condition. I would like to know the issue behind it. The reasoning behind, having a standing military. If so, then elaborate on the constitution. I wanna here some work done here. After the issue is discussed (Essential functions of Government IE. Standing Military Vs Others) than we can argue the point of the issue, and find out if any hypocracy and double standard exists or find out THE necessity of functions which one can agree or not.

                  And mind you, the Constitution was written along time ago. If there were to be amendments, or ratification, you would see it be alot more liberal than what it was, for what it's worth. Your just out of the mainstream Gunnut. Do you really want too see a modern constitutional ratification? Your views certainly would not be in the mainstream.
                  Last edited by Dago; 09 Apr 11,, 03:00.
                  sigpic

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                    Military is specified in the constitution as a duty of the federal government.

                    I don't see the constitution saying anything about providing for the police, firefighters, paramedics, education, unemployment, retirement, housing, food stamps, ... etc. The list goes on and on.

                    Read the constitution. I know it must be a very humorous document to you.
                    So you love the constitution then tell me were the illegal wiretaps the Bush white house ordered and the illegal arm sales to Iran to circumvent congresses power of the purse impeachable offenses? If not why?
                    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                    ~Ronald Reagan

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                      So you love the constitution then tell me were the illegal wiretaps the Bush white house ordered and the illegal arm sales to Iran to circumvent congresses power of the purse impeachable offenses? If not why?
                      Because, the constitution doesn't matter! sarcasm.
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                      • #41
                        shutdown averted they pulled the planned parenthood provision from the budget bill where it never belonged
                        Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                        ~Ronald Reagan

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent – 10 mins ago

                          WASHINGTON – Perilously close to a government shutdown, congressional leaders reached agreement with the White House late Friday night on a deal to cut tens of billions of dollars in federal spending and avert the closure.
                          House Speaker John Boehner informed the GOP rank and file of the accord, reached in grueling negotiations over several weeks, an official said.
                          "We have an agreement," concurred a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Jon Summers.

                          Because drafting and then passing the broader legislation could take days, congressional leaders raced to approve a stopgap measure to prevent the onset of the first shutdown in 15 years, due to begin at midnight. Officials said it would keep the government in funds through the middle of next week.
                          Boehner told reporters just before 11 p.m. EDT that the House would continue working.

                          Republicans said the deal called for $39 billion in spending cuts, a measure that one official said Boehner told his rank and file marked the "largest real-dollar spending cut in American history."

                          Over a decade, the agreement would cut more than $500 billion from the federal budget, Boehner added, according to a participant in the meeting.
                          The agreement marked an extraordinary reach across party lines and the first test of a new era of divided government that includes Obama in the White House, control of the Senate by fellow Democrats and a tea party-flavored Republican majority in the House.

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                          Deal reached, shutdown averted.
                          sigpic

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                          • #43
                            Boehner told his rank and file marked the "largest real-dollar spending cut in American history."


                            I would disagree with that... what is this, 1%? there have been cuts larger then 1% even nominal, what about 46? During Reagen didn't they cut NDD 13%?
                            sigpic

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                              So you love the constitution then tell me were the illegal wiretaps the Bush white house ordered and the illegal arm sales to Iran to circumvent congresses power of the purse impeachable offenses? If not why?
                              RR:

                              You're deflecting again. You can't defend disobedience with disobedience.

                              BTW, it was giving weapons to the Contras not procuring them for Iran, although that happened as well with Israeli help. The former was illegal, not unconstitutional. The latter was just plain stupid.

                              As for the Patriot Act, when at war...
                              Last edited by JAD_333; 09 Apr 11,, 07:19.
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Dago View Post
                                Boehner told his rank and file marked the "largest real-dollar spending cut in American history."


                                I would disagree with that... what is this, 1%? there have been cuts larger then 1% even nominal, what about 46? During Reagen didn't they cut NDD 13%?
                                Actually, The Washington Post was the source of that claim in an article it published over over a week ago.

                                And they are right. But critics quickly disputed the fact by responding in terms of percentage. The article said largest "real real dollar" cut, not largest percentage cut.

                                Although spending will likely still go up this year (estimated increase is $200 bil), a $38B cut is a good start.
                                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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