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  • Judge suspended over Ten Commandments

    Judge suspended over Ten Commandments

    Ethics complaint: Chief justice failed to respect, obey law

    Friday, August 22, 2003 Posted: 10:20 PM EDT (0220 GMT)

    MONTGOMERY, Alabama (CNN) -- Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore was suspended Friday pending the outcome of an ethics complaint for defying a federal court order to move a Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court building.

    The plaintiffs who sought the monument's removal -- Stephen Glassroth and Melinda Maddox -- filed the complaint with the state judicial board of inquiry, arguing that Moore is guilty of judicial misconduct for failing to carry out a court order.

    The complaint charges that Moore, a Republican, failed "to respect and comply with the law" and "willfully failed to comply with an existing and binding court order directed at him."

    It also said the chief justice failed "to uphold the integrity and independence of the judiciary," "failed to observe high standards of conduct" and "failed to avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety in his activities."

    Tom Parker, Moore's spokesman, said the chief justice had not yet seen the complaint, nor had his lawyers.

    "We'll see what we do from here," Parker said.

    The case has been referred to an Alabama judicial court, which will hold a trial-like proceeding where evidence of alleged wrongdoing will be presented and Moore will have a chance to defend his actions. Should Moore be found guilty, the court has the power to punish him -- and even remove him from the bench.

    During his suspension, Moore will continue to receive his salary but will be prohibited from carrying out his duties as a judge.

    Moore's supporters prayed outside the state judicial building Friday evening.

    Meanwhile, Alabama state officials have made plans to remove the 5,300-pound monument from the building, attorneys for those demanding the removal told CNN Friday.

    U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson, who ordered the monument taken out, held a conference call Friday morning with both sides in the case that led to his ruling.

    According to attorneys for the plaintiffs, State Attorney General Bill Pryor said during the call that removal plans are under way, but he gave no specifics.

    The plaintiffs' attorneys said they were satisfied and planned another phone conference in a week.

    They said they hope the monument will be removed by then. If it isn't, they said, they will revisit the possibility of pursuing contempt charges against the state -- which could trigger $5,000-a-day fines until the monument is removed.

    On Friday, Moore stood near the monument as he talked to Judicial Building manager Graham George, who was told Thursday by the rest of the justices on the state's high court to carry out the removal, according to a report from The Associated Press. It wasn't known what was said.

    In an interview Friday with CNN, Moore made it clear he would not back down.

    "The issue is: Can the state acknowledge God?" he said. "If this state can't acknowledge God, then other states can't. ... And eventually, the United States of America ... will not be able to acknowledge the very source of our rights and liberties and the very source of our law. ...

    "When a court order departs from the law and tells you what you can think and who you can believe in," he said, the judge issuing that order is "telling you to violate your oath. And he can't do that. Judges simply don't have that power."

    Thompson, in his ruling, agreed with the plaintiffs that the massive monument, prominently displayed in the rotunda, violates the constitutional ban on government promotion of religion.

    A federal appeals court refused to overturn the ruling. Moore has filed an appeal with the U.S. Supreme Court.

    After the deadline to remove the monument expired at midnight Wednesday, the Alabama Supreme Court's eight associate justices ordered that the monument be removed "as soon as practicable."

    "The refusal of officers of this court to obey a binding order of a federal court of competent jurisdiction would impair the authority and ability of all of the courts of this state to enforce their judgments," the justices ruled.

    Pryor, a Republican who has been nominated for a federal judgeship, applauded the justices' order. "The rule of law means that no person, including the chief justice of Alabama, is above the law," he said.

    Asked on CNN whether he would support an Islamic monument to the Koran in the rotunda of the federal building, Moore replied, "This nation was founded upon the laws of God, not upon the Koran. That's clear in the Declaration [of Independence], so it wouldn't fit history and it wouldn't fit law."

    Moore installed the monument in August 2001 without consulting other justices. The lawsuit was filed shortly afterward.

    CNN correspondent David Mattingly contributed to this report.

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/22/ten.commandments/index.html
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  • #2
    So what wins? First Amendment, or Seperation of Church and State?
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

    Comment


    • #3
      Both, the free speech is apparent, but separation of church and state? What does that mean? It means that no state religion will be imposed, having a list of the Ten Commandments is not imposing anything. If the court were to treat one defendant differently from another based on their religion, then you would have a supreme court issue, the idea that American government doesn’t believe in God at all is bull, the phrase of course “in God we trust”, makes that known, it doesn’t say “by God we mandate” so thereby it is perfectly reasonable to put up the Ten Commandments, a prayer to Allah would be perfectly fine as well, as long as we don’t force anyone to be a part of any one religion, then people are within their right to display as they please, including court houses.
      Whoever is unjust let him be unjust still
      Whoever is righteous let him be righteous still
      Whoever is filthy let him be filthy still
      Listen to the words long written down
      When the man comes around- Johnny Cash

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      • #4
        I think Moore's got the right idea. And now thousands of people are "crusading" to save the statue...
        Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

        Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

        Comment


        • #5
          The Ten Commandments should not be on display and they are not now

          Comment


          • #6
            Why shouldn't they be there now? It's not like they could possibly affect a judges judgement. I doubt that the statues being there or not would seriously affect a judges thinking...
            Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

            Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by donnie
              Both, the free speech is apparent, but separation of church and state? What does that mean? It means that no state religion will be imposed, having a list of the Ten Commandments is not imposing anything. If the court were to treat one defendant differently from another based on their religion, then you would have a supreme court issue, the idea that American government doesn’t believe in God at all is bull, the phrase of course “in God we trust”, makes that known, it doesn’t say “by God we mandate” so thereby it is perfectly reasonable to put up the Ten Commandments, a prayer to Allah would be perfectly fine as well, as long as we don’t force anyone to be a part of any one religion, then people are within their right to display as they please, including court houses.
              But what if the display is at the taxpayer's expense? I suspect a lot of taxpayers would be upset if their money went toward buying a big Buddha for the courthouse. I also suspect that a lot of the folks who support blurring the line between state and religion do so on the condition that it is their religion that is promoted.

              Comment


              • #8
                There seemed to be a goodly amount of protestors. I didn't see that many protesting to remove it or claiming misuse if funds...
                Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Okay, ummm... did anyone happen to see my post here?

                  It was pretty long, and now it's gone. Just curious.
                  I never understood "fire for effect". I thought the firing WAS the effect...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    They bought the statue with private funds so the misappropiation of public funds is not the issue here. The issue here is the endorsment of the Ten Commandments being some supreme law on which all others are based which is obviously bull.

                    The first three commandments order obediance to God. The Declaration of Independence says you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. No where in the Bible does it say you should strive for your own hapiness, in fact it preaches quite the opposite. It teaches that one must sacrifice himself and his happiness for others.

                    It also goes against Individual Rights which this country was founded on.

                    The forth says you must honor your father and mother. This is utterly stupid. You should only honor your mother and father if they deserve it.

                    The last six commandments are common laws in all societys dating back to the first law code(Hammurabi).

                    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
                    It says it will create no law RESPECTING the establishment of religion. This means no religion in Government and since any belief in a God is a religion there is no God in Government.

                    There is no need to have that statue there. If they want to go out and buy some property near the courthouse then they can construct the largest statue the world has ever seen because that falls within the relm of private property rights.
                    Last edited by Praxus; 03 Sep 03,, 22:26.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The true seperation of Church and State can never be attained in a truly democratic nation.

                      Look at the laws against homosexuality for example. As we are finding out now, pretty much the only argument against homosexuality is a religious-based one. However, voters (in some areas) obviously feel it is not something that should be allowed.

                      So you have a case of religion, (the constituents') affecting the legislation of the state.

                      Now, I've never been to Alabama, but my understanding is that the population is overwhelmingly Christian, and I haven't heard of any protests by the concerned citizens of Mobile.

                      The law is (or frikking well should be) based on the higher law of God. Most Christians believe this, and Christians are in the majority in Alabama. It's not like they are going to start burning mosques (if they have any in Alabama), or stoning rebellious children.

                      And look at who is complaining. An alliance of secular Jews and Athiests. Hardly above pushing thier own religious barrow themselves. I'll leave that argument for later, but anyway.

                      Now, I haven't made any argument about the US Constitution, or the intentions of the founding fathers, or anything like that, because laws that were made by men can be unmade by men. The Constitution os not some magical holy document that is impervious to change. If enough Americans feel strongly about an issue, they can change the Constitution. It's been done before. What does it matter if having the statue there is in breach of the Constitution? If that really is the case, change the Constitution.
                      SWANSEA 'TILL I DIE! - CARN THE CROWS!

                      Rule Britannia, No Surrender

                      Staff Cadet in the Australian Army Reserve.

                      Soli Deo Gloria

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                      • #12
                        The thing is, if you asked any Israeli about the issue, he'd say "So what's the problem?" Israel is so religously orientated that the thought of a plaque of the Ten Commandments outside a courthouse is considered completely normal
                        Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                        Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah well, tell that to the tools at ADL. Why don't they find some real discrimination to correct?
                          SWANSEA 'TILL I DIE! - CARN THE CROWS!

                          Rule Britannia, No Surrender

                          Staff Cadet in the Australian Army Reserve.

                          Soli Deo Gloria

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What's ADL?
                            Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                            Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Anti-Defamation League

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