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2023 American Political Scene

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  • Originally posted by Monash View Post

    As I've said before, who needs TV comedies when you have Washington DC.
    Maybe it’s the effect of electing a reality TV host as president, but MAGA fanatics sure seem more interested in being entertained than doing the boring work of governing.

    Comment


    • And McCarthy is the first Speaker in U.S. history to be ousted. And by his own party, no less.
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by statquo View Post

        Maybe it’s the effect of electing a reality TV host as president, but MAGA fanatics sure seem more interested in being entertained than doing the boring work of governing.
        BINGO. Perfectly stated.
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

          BINGO. Perfectly stated.
          I’ll also say the fact that “we’re in uncharted territory” is becoming a cliche in American politics is pretty worrying and telling of where it’s barreling towards

          Comment


          • Originally posted by statquo View Post

            I’ll also say the fact that “we’re in uncharted territory” is becoming a cliche in American politics is pretty worrying and telling of where it’s barreling towards
            These days that phrase is used more for political fear mongering than any other purpose. The US is democratic, entrepreneurial, technologically advanced, prosperous and well defended. It also has many like minded allies across the world. The same was true two decades ago and will be two decades from now. Whats changed is that the interment has amplified the ability of extremist elements in it's own society to magnify their apparent numbers and influence way above what it is in reality while also allow foreign enemies to push deliberate misinformation and propaganda through the front door of every home in the country. The result is an illusion that the Republic is under threat.

            The problem is that it now takes time and effort for the people with busy lives to separate the fantasy from the reality. And the more people who don't make the effort the more likely it is that some of the fantasy gets excepted as reality. Most of the time people can spot a hoax or fake news if it relates to a field where they have some level expertise or say the area where they live. But there's so much BS masquerading as the 'truth' on our screens today that become it's hard to tell the difference if you don't make the effort to check. The end result is garbage in, garbage out opinion and decision making.
            Last edited by Monash; 03 Oct 23,, 23:57.
            If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Monash View Post

              These days that phrase is used more for political fear mongering than any other purpose. The US is democratic, entrepreneurial, technologically advanced, prosperous and well defended. It also has many like minded allies across the world. The same was true two decades ago and will be two decades from now. Whats changed is that the interment has amplified the ability of extremist elements in it's own society to magnify their apparent numbers and influence way above what it is in reality while also allow foreign enemies to push deliberate misinformation and propaganda through the front door of every home in the country. The result is an illusion that the Republic is under threat.

              The problem is that it now takes time and effort for the people with busy lives to separate the fantasy from the reality. And the more people who don't make the effort the more likely it is that some of the fantasy gets excepted as reality. Most of the time people can spot a hoax or fake news if it relates to a field where they have some level expertise or say the area where they live. But there's so much BS masquerading as the 'truth' on our screens today that become it's hard to tell the difference if you don't make the effort to check. The end result is garbage in, garbage out opinion and decision making.
              The US is 43 days away from a government shutdown and the majority in the House just kicked out their own leader. That’s not fear mongering, thats uncharted territory.

              The former President and leading Republican nominee by a mile has like 6 criminal indictments. That’s not fear mongering, that’s uncharted territory.

              That same former President is actively calling for political opponents and military officials to be executed for treason. That’s not fear mongering, that’s uncharted territory.

              The US has an active political party openly campaigning on burning the system to the ground and replacing it with autocracy. That’s not fear mongering, that’s uncharted territory.

              We could do this all day. The Republic is clearly under threat from within.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Monash View Post

                These days that phrase is used more for political fear mongering than any other purpose.
                Statquo is absolutely right. If this isn't terra incognita for the United States, then I don't know what is.

                Originally posted by Monash View Post
                The US is democratic, entrepreneurial, technologically advanced, prosperous and well defended.
                We are all of those things...and as it turns out, we're hideously vulnerable to collapse from within. Not by some insurgency of fringe separatists, but by one of our two major political parties, led by a sitting-now-former-and-could-be-again President.

                Two years ago, this country had to fend off a multi-pronged attempted coup. A fucking COUP.
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by statquo View Post

                  The US is 43 days away from a government shutdown and the majority in the House just kicked out their own leader. That’s not fear mongering, thats uncharted territory.

                  The former President and leading Republican nominee by a mile has like 6 criminal indictments. That’s not fear mongering, that’s uncharted territory.

                  That same former President is actively calling for political opponents and military officials to be executed for treason. That’s not fear mongering, that’s uncharted territory.

                  The US has an active political party openly campaigning on burning the system to the ground and replacing it with autocracy. That’s not fear mongering, that’s uncharted territory.

                  We could do this all day. The Republic is clearly under threat from within.

                  I would argue that Trump is a specific problem, in part both a cause and a symptom of the larger underlying problems I referred to. Given those underlying conditions I'd argue that sooner or later someone of his ilk was bound to manifest his or her self on the political seen and use the same issues to their own ends. I'd also argue this is more likely to occur on the far right of the political spectrum and hence the Republicans because that side of politics is as a rule better organized and willing to co-operate. Well at least for what they regard as an important issue and for a reasonable amount of time.

                  The far left? Well the Dems have their own problems with elements that would, if they ever managed to escape their keepers be tempted to at least try and pull off the kind of BS Trump has - provided of course a single individual arose with sufficient charisma. Still, unifying the far left is more akin to herding cats than it is to organizing a putsch! If I wanted a large scale, random acts of civil disobedience and chaos? They'd be my go to guys. Getting them to stay focused and allied long enough to stage a coup? Not so much.

                  I'd also lay odds Trump won't win next year. But the the problem I underlined won't go away and there are plenty of would be Trump's out there ready to take his place.
                  Last edited by Monash; 04 Oct 23,, 22:21.
                  If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Monash View Post

                    Why are the Democrats doing that? what do they get out of it? As bad as McCarthy may be what makes them think the his replacement will be any better. As far as I can tell chances are they will be even worse because the MAGAs will never support any candidate the Dems might even partially think acceptable and God knows it's not like the MAGA will ever return the favor.
                    I definitely don't know WTH Gaetz is thinking. McCarthy could be nominated again for one. Two, they need 218 votes and the Dems have 212 against anyone they don't like. Can the Repubs count on all 218 voting for a MAGA acceptable candidate? Do you think an acceptable MAGA nominee could get all 218 Repub votes? I don't and I see the Dems sitting pretty right now.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

                      I definitely don't know WTH Gaetz is thinking. McCarthy could be nominated again for one. Two, they need 218 votes and the Dems have 212 against anyone they don't like. Can the Repubs count on all 218 voting for a MAGA acceptable candidate? Do you think an acceptable MAGA nominee could get all 218 Repub votes? I don't and I see the Dems sitting pretty right now.
                      Well, I've been reading news summaries on the legal/practical consequences of having the Speakers Chair vacant and basically? The House shuts down. Staffers don't get paid and members aren't entitled to any information from the Government Agencies they're supposed to have oversight of. So if the MAGA loons who caused this mess were worried about the possibility of the 'dictatorship' (other than their own of course ) in the US? Congratulations they've well on the way to creating one by default.
                      If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                        And McCarthy is the first Speaker in U.S. history to be ousted. And by his own party, no less.
                        McCarthy evidently expected Democrats to save his as. But Rep Jeffries basically said go stick a pole up your ass. He said he backed out of every deal he made with Dems this term and no one in the Democratic caucus trusted him on anything.

                        Shit coming home to roost.
                        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                        Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • This has been coming for awhile. It started with Gingrich in the 90s and the battles they had with Clinton. The GOP skewed further to the right and informal purity tests meant moderate Republicans lost party backing. It went into the background a bit under GWB but there were neocons who exported the same virulency to foreign policy. And then a Black man had the audacity to become President. The results were the Tea Party Movement (precursor to MAGAts) and POTUS's wrongheaded decision in Citizens United. This allowed unregulated dark money to rule politics...especially conservative causes. All this made a fertile ground for Trump come in and truly changed the GOP.

                          So, yeah, many of our pillars of the republic are definitely wobbly.
                          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                          Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • A good thread from a Hill DEM staffer on why the DEMs told McCarthy GFY

                            https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...488976279.html
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                              This has been coming for awhile. It started with Gingrich in the 90s and the battles they had with Clinton. The GOP skewed further to the right and informal purity tests meant moderate Republicans lost party backing. It went into the background a bit under GWB but there were neocons who exported the same virulency to foreign policy. And then a Black man had the audacity to become President. The results were the Tea Party Movement (precursor to MAGAts) and POTUS's wrongheaded decision in Citizens United. This allowed unregulated dark money to rule politics...especially conservative causes. All this made a fertile ground for Trump come in and truly changed the GOP.

                              So, yeah, many of our pillars of the republic are definitely wobbly.
                              E-V.com had a damning write up on the last 30 years of Republican House Speakers:
                              1. Newt Gingrich (4 years): Run out of office after the Clinton impeachment blew up in Republicans' faces.
                              2. Dennis Hastert (8 years): Served without too much dissension, and for longer than any other GOP speaker.
                              3. John Boehner (4 years, 10 months): Quit in disgust after a rebellion of the tea partiers.
                              4. Paul Ryan (3 years, 3 months): Didn't want the job, fled Congress when Republicans lost the majority.
                              5. McCarthy (9 months): Ejected by the Freedom Caucusers after a stormy tenure.
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • McCarthy evidently expected Democrats to save his as. But Rep Jeffries basically said go stick a pole up your ass. He said he backed out of every deal he made with Dems this term and no one in the Democratic caucus trusted him on anything.

                                Shit coming home to roost.
                                what made it especially funny was that McCarthy knew full well no one -- in both parties -- trusted him to keep a deal. so he didn't offer one.

                                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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