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2024 U.S. Election of President and Vice President

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Monash View Post
    Might not be the place for it, in fact this news piece might deserve its own thread but here goes.

    From ABC News. Yevgeny Prigozhin admits meddling in US elections. In a speech Prigozhin stated in part that "Gentlemen, we have interfered, are interfering and will interfere. Carefully, precisely, surgically and in our own way, as we know how to do." As far as I am aware this is the first public admission by a senior figure close to Putin that Russia has in fact attempted to interfere in US elections.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-...ions/101627276



    Hey Top Hatter...I seem to remember a certain couple of folks who argued vehemently this was fake news and a fabrication from the Steele Dossier!
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

      Hey Top Hatter...I seem to remember a certain couple of folks who argued vehemently this was fake news and a fabrication from the Steele Dossier!
      Russia Russia Russia!!

      Or was it, "Russia, if you're listening...."
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

      Comment


      • #93
        Sounding like a lot of Trump supporters are putting this bad night for Republicans on him and are ready to move on to a DeSantis run. Saying his endorsement of terrible candidates have almost completely turned off the tap to independents as evident now, are tired of his toxicity and know he can’t win in 2024. Unfortunately, they know his ego will get in the way and are afraid he’ll tear the party apart before 2024.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by statquo View Post
          Sounding like a lot of Trump supporters are putting this bad night for Republicans on him and are ready to move on to a DeSantis run. Saying his endorsement of terrible candidates have almost completely turned off the tap to independents as evident now, are tired of his toxicity and know he can’t win in 2024. Unfortunately, they know his ego will get in the way and are afraid he’ll tear the party apart before 2024.
          Whatever blame they put on him, it won't last, especially if the Republicans pick up both houses, or even just the House of Reps.

          They'll find somewhere else to place the blame ("eLeCtIoN fRaUd!!"). That's how a cult works. The cult leader is never to blame.

          Doesn't matter much either way, since Trump will declare his candidacy in a few days (November 15 apparently) and they'll obediently line up behind him, just like they did in 2016 and 2020,
          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

          Comment


          • #95
            it'll be really fun, in a macabre sort of way, to watch Trump go up against the now triumphant DeSantis.
            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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            • #96
              Originally posted by TopHatter View Post


              Doesn't matter much either way, since Trump will declare his candidacy in a few days (November 15 apparently) and they'll obediently line up behind him, just like they did in 2016 and 2020,
              I don't know if Ron DeSantis will beat Trump, but I think he has a chance. The strength of his achievement in Florida cannot be denied. While I think his stunt with sending asylum seekers to Martha's vineyard was deplorable, I wish him all the best if he takes on Trump. And to be honest, I found his speech against the Woke mob somewhat refreshing; while the woke movement may have started with good intentions, but they have clearly gone too extreme on several issues.

              The best case scenario for America might be if Trump and DeSantis fight it out; Trump loses and then cripples DeSantis in the general election out of spite. That might finally be a reckoning for Republicans and cause the end of Trumpism; one can hope.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                Whatever blame they put on him, it won't last, especially if the Republicans pick up both houses, or even just the House of Reps.

                They'll find somewhere else to place the blame ("eLeCtIoN fRaUd!!"). That's how a cult works. The cult leader is never to blame.

                Doesn't matter much either way, since Trump will declare his candidacy in a few days (November 15 apparently) and they'll obediently line up behind him, just like they did in 2016 and 2020,
                They’ll definitely get behind him if he’s the candidate, but I seriously think he won’t withstand a DeSantis run. Rotten Ronnie just proved he can win crossover votes and the Latino vote in Florida and while the cult won’t completely cut ties with Trump, they’ll thank him for his policies, and talk about the good old days of 2016 and his four years, but they know he’s unelectable in another presidential election. They have to win back independents and those from the right that fled Trumpism to win again.

                They’ll look to DeSantis to carry on his policies, but without the toxicity. There’s Trump supporters who are exhausted too.

                If Trump wanted to be king maker, he’d step aside and appoint his heir. Too bad his a egotistical moron. The next two years will be how much damage he does to the Republicans.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by statquo View Post

                  They’ll definitely get behind him if he’s the candidate, but I seriously think he won’t withstand a DeSantis run. Rotten Ronnie just proved he can win crossover votes and the Latino vote in Florida and while the cult won’t completely cut ties with Trump, they’ll thank him for his policies, and talk about the good old days of 2016 and his four years, but they know he’s unelectable in another presidential election. They have to win back independents and those from the right that fled Trumpism to win again.
                  It's getting to that, true. But unless he's 6 feet under, Trump will easily win the 2024 Republican primary against anyone, even DeSantis.

                  Originally posted by statquo View Post
                  They’ll look to DeSantis to carry on his policies, but without the toxicity. There’s Trump supporters who are exhausted too.
                  No doubt about it. There's already this pathological need to see Trump and DeSantis as allies, not enemies. It roils the cult to see them at odds with each other.

                  Originally posted by statquo View Post
                  If Trump wanted to be king maker, he’d step aside and appoint his heir. Too bad his a egotistical moron. The next two years will be how much damage he does to the Republicans.
                  Yep, exactly. He wants to be king, full stop. His malignant ego can't handle any other outcome. That's why wishes and predictions that Trump will somehow step aside endorse DeSantis for the presidency are unbelievably foolish fantasies.
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    A partial quote from Electroral-vote.com

                    Trump Vs DeSantis

                    These results up and down the line are going to make Republicans rethink a lot going forward. But how? What they would like are better candidates, but that will require getting rid of Trump. But how to do that? Actually, Ron DeS. has a plan: run for president. These results are going to give DeSantis a huge push to challenge Trump in 2024. He just came off a huge victory and Trump's picks were badly beaten almost everywhere. Sure, DeSantis could wait until 2028, but he will be out of office then and everyone will have forgotten his landslide win in 2022. He is strong now and Trump is weak. He knows that very well. This is his moment.

                    If DeSantis, who is almost as ambitious as he is ruthless, takes the plunge, the GOP primary will be a food fight for the ages. Trump will claim that he "made" DeSantis by endorsing him in 2018. Nobody is going to care about that. DeSantis will claim that he is a younger version of Trump, just as good at owning the libs, and without a stream of women claiming he sexually assaulted them. If he wants to make up a nickname, how about "Failed President Trump." He could talk about all the campaign promises Trump didn't deliver on, starting with building the wall and getting Mexico to pay for it. He could easily contrast Trump's record of failure with his own record of "success" (e.g., shipping 50 immigrants to Massachusetts— where they were accepted with open arms). His pitch could be: "Trump is an old windbag full of hot air. I get things done." If Trump is under indictment, DeSantis will also say: "It is hard to govern when you are in prison."

                    Is there anyone else besides DeSantis who wants to see a DeSantis run? Billionnaire Ken Griffin has already said in public that he will take care of the financing, so that won't be a problem. Griffin has a net worth of $31 billion. If he were to put 1% of it ($310 million) in a super PAC for DeSantis, that would be enough to finance DeSantis' entire primary campaign right there, so DeSantis wouldn't have to waste any time dialing for dollars. At DeSantis' victory party Tuesday evening, the crowd chanted: "Two more years!" Maybe the room was full of transplants from New Hampshire or Vermont, where gubernatorial terms are 2 years, but we think the crowd had something else in mind.

                    Still, DeSantis hasn't had to deal with a full frontal assault yet, isn't heavy on charisma, has a squeaky voice, and is media-challenged, so he isn't in like Flynn. Also, Nov. 2024 is two years away. Remember former presidents Scott Walker and Rudy Giuliani? Yeah, we neither. Sometimes the flavor of the day turns sour. Also, if DeSantis jumps is, that could attract the Mikes P. (Pence and Pompeo), leading the anti-Trump candidates to split the anti-Trump vote and allow him to win all the delegates in the many winner-take-all primaries.

                    If DeSantis runs, how does it affect Joe Biden's decision? Gov. Gavin Newsom (D-CA) has already started campaigning against DeSantis. Maybe he knows something the rest of us haven't figured out yet. Nobody wants Biden vs. Trump again, while Newsom vs. DeSantis would be a whole new generation of politicians and an ideological battle for the ages: a true lefty vs. a true righty. But keep in mind, if a week is a long time in politics, 2 years is large multiple of the lifetime of the universe. (V)
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                    Comment


                    • Assuming DeSantis beats Trump the real issue will be how Trump deals with it. History suggests he with throw a giant tantrum, declare fraud and encourage his supporters not to back DeSantis. If he does anything more than just quietly sulk DeSantis is probably dead....assuming nothing disastrous happens on the Dem side.

                      However, there are other, less peasant scenarios. If Trump just slinks away & sulks or just continues to run his 2020 'big lie' then enough centrist voters who were turned off by Trump in 2020 may come back to get a DeSantis win. If Trump loses but supports DeSantis - admittedly the least likely scenario - then DeSantis probably wins.

                      One thing to keep in mind is that for all the craziness of the current GOP, the one thing they all agree on is that they don't want Dems in power. Remember back in 2016 when so many of us were convinced religious voters would never vote for a guy like Trump. They did. He won. While there are reasons to believe some Trump voters might refuse to vote for DeSantis, there are also reasons to believe they will put that all aside and make sure there is a GOPer in the White House.

                      Biden can probably still beat Trump assuming he is functional. Ditching Kamala would help. Biden stepping down for a credible candiate would be better. Unfortunately no one sticks out yet....amd Biden doesn't show signs of leaving. The only good news is that 2022 is a rare example of Dems getting the vote out in a mid-term. Thank you right wing SCOTUS. If they can do it again in 2024 it might just be enough. It seems that Dems are finally coming around to the position GOPers held in 2016 - better a flawed one of ours than any of theirs.
                      sigpic

                      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                      • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                        Assuming DeSantis beats Trump the real issue will be how Trump deals with it. History suggests he with throw a giant tantrum, declare fraud and encourage his supporters not to back DeSantis. If he does anything more than just quietly sulk DeSantis is probably dead....assuming nothing disastrous happens on the Dem side.
                        Trump won't do anything quietly, certainly not sulk. He'll attack DeSantis at every chance. He doesn't give a shit about the Republican Party. If DeSantis declares his candidacy, it's game on.

                        That's why the Dems, Never Trumpers and castaways like me are rubbing their hands in utter glee at the prospect of a MAGA civil war...errr...I mean, Trump vs DeSantis primary in 2024.
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • Trump goes to war against DeSantis
                          Trump and DeSantis are on a 2024 collision course as the Florida governor’s national stock has risen.

                          TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Former President Donald Trump publicly attacked Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, releasing a rambling statement Thursday blasting the governor he helped make but who is now his chief rival to lead the Republican Party.

                          Just days before he’ll likely announce he’s running for president, Trump took credit for DeSantis’ success after endorsing him in 2018, belittled him as “average” and accused “Ron DeSanctimonious” of playing games by not announcing his 2024 presidential ambitions.

                          “He says, ‘I’m only focused on the Governor’s race, I’m not looking into the future.’ Well, in terms of loyalty and class, that’s really not the right answer,” Trump said in a statement and in a post on his social media platform Truth social.

                          Trump and DeSantis are on a 2024 collision course as the Florida governor’s national stock has risen, an ascent punctuated Tuesday night after DeSantis won reelection in Florida by nearly 20 points and Trump-backed candidates across the country largely underperformed.

                          DeSantis won Florida by historic margins in what was once the nation’s largest swing state. Conservative media institutions like Fox News have appeared to side with DeSantis, as has the New York Post, a Rupert Murdoch-owned tabloid that ran a front page headline calling DeSantis “DeFuture” the day after the election.

                          “NewsCorp, which is Fox, the Wall Street Journal, and the no longer great New York Post, is all in for Governor Ron DeSanctimonious,” Trump said.

                          Trump also criticized DeSantis’ hands-off response to the pandemic, one of the governor’s top achievements among conservatives that boosted his national profile.

                          DeSantis is “an average REPUBLICAN Governor with great Public Relations, who didn’t have to close up his state, but did, unlike other Republican Governors,” Trump wrote.
                          Trump has taken more subtle shots at DeSantis in recent weeks, including the new nickname. But Thursday night’s statement is a clear escalation of tension between Trump and a governor who increasingly poses a threat to the former president’s White House ambitions.

                          DeSantis, whose campaign did not return a request seeking comment, has so far not responded publicly to Trump’s chiding.

                          “I think that Ron is very clearly living rent free in the former president’s head,” said Stephen Lawson, a Georgia-based strategist who was communications director for DeSantis’ successful 2018 run for governor. “Ron has not said a single word and they think smartly that Tuesday’s huge win allows him to just keep talking about his record without having to acknowledge Trump.”

                          “It’s 1,000 percent the correct move,” Lawson said of DeSantis. “Trump just keeps throwing boomerangs.”

                          Trump’s most ardent supporters, however, are greeting the escalation with glee, saying that DeSantis deserves Trump’s ire because the governor hasn’t publicly announced his 2024 intentions.

                          “Sadly, everything President Trump says is true. Ron DeSantis owes his governorship to Donald Trump and challenging him in 2024 would be a treacherous act of disloyalty,” said Roger Stone, a long-time Trump adviser.

                          Trump’s endorsement played a huge role in DeSantis winning the 2018 GOP primary against former Florida Agriculture Commissioner Adam Putnam, who was an early favorite. In his statement, the ex-president said he backed DeSantis because he “didn’t know” Putnam. On Thursday night, former Putnam advisers were caught off guard by being roped into the statement, but one said “even at the worst point Adam was not happy, but he never once said a bad thing about Trump.”

                          There are mixed responses to Trump’s escalation, according to a dozen people in Trump and DeSantis’ orbit. But even those who support the former president say the public criticism of a popular governor coming off a historic win seemed misguided.

                          “Obviously he is escalating. It is total shots fired,” said a Trump adviser who was granted anonymity to speak freely. “It is not what I would have done if it were totally up to me, but you can’t argue with Donald Trump’s tactics. They work. He is savage but effective. He was never going to stay restrained for long.”

                          Trump’s broadside comes after a crop of his hand-picked candidates had disappointing midterm showings, possibly upending Republican hopes to retake the Senate and giving the GOP, if they win the House, a much smaller majority than many anticipated. A key race in Georgia between Democratic Sen. Raphael Warnock and Trump-endorsed Republican challenger Herschel Walker is set to go to a runoff as Trump diverts attention with his feud with DeSantis.

                          Besides DeSantis’ overwhelming win, Florida Republicans won supermajorities in both the House and Senate, giving the governor nearly unchecked power to build and pass a policy platform that will further his national profile ahead of an anticipated 2024 announcement in late spring or summer of 2023.

                          For Republicans in Florida, Trump’s statement speaks to one thing: desperation.

                          “He is obviously threatened by a DeSantis presidential run,” said a longtime Florida Republican consultant given anonymity to openly discuss the former president and DeSantis. “And by doing this, I think he will lose a lot of his base support.”

                          ______________

                          I wonder how long this latest spat will last, until someone informs Trump quite forcefully that going to war with DeSantis right this instant is a lose-lose prospect.

                          But, like I said before, there's only room for one autocrat in an autocracy.

                          I don't know if there's enough popcorn in the world for this bitchy little catfight
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • Yeah I was completely out of the loop suggesting a Trump/DeSantis ticket.

                            This will be fun to watch though.

                            Comment


                            • DeSantis may yet fix his pre-Primary problem with Trump with an offer to give Trump a Ford/Nixon-like Federal pardon on the conditions that (a) Trump withdraws from his run, (b) Trump throws his support to DeSantis, and (c) that DeSantis wins the main event election. That would not only silence Trump's criticisms of DeSantis, but would also incentivize Trump's active efforts in trying to get DeSantis elected.

                              A Democrat POTUS won't pardon Trump, and he cannot pardon himself if he was to win the election, so Trump's only hope in getting a pardon would be to receive one from another Republican POTUS, and that might not be made available if Trump doesn't agree to a deal earlier rather than later.

                              Trump might not be interested in that deal, because he is all about the money, and he makes a lot more money from contributions if he appears to be actively pursuing the office. And Trump understands that the Feds may be more apprehensive about prosecuting him while he is an active viable political candidate running for highest office, POTUS, else the right wing goes after the prosecutors for their quasi-partisanship. And that right wing may yet control both the Senate and the House, so the right wingers might easily subpoena quasi-partisan prosecutors to testify under oath before publicized subcommittee hearings, asking them some very ugly questions.
                              Last edited by JRT; 11 Nov 22,, 17:02.
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                              • Trump Blasts Out Racist Attack on Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin

                                Former President Donald Trump lashed out at Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin on Friday morning in a racist post on his Truth Social platform.

                                Trump—who views Youngkin as part of the Republican establishment that wants to squeeze the former president out of the GOP—suggested Youngkin’s name “sounds Chinese.”

                                “In Virginia [Youngkin] couldn’t have won without me,” he bragged. “I Endorsed him, did a very big Trump Rally for him telephonically, got MAGA to Vote for him—or he couldn’t have come close to winning.”

                                “But he knows that, and admits it,” Trump concluded.


                                A Youngkin spokesperson didn’t immediately return The Daily Beast’s request for comment on Friday morning.

                                On Thursday, Youngkin’s Lt. Gov. Winsome Sears said she couldn’t support Trump’s 2024 presidential run.

                                “We have a clear mission, and it is time to move on,” she said.

                                This isn’t the first time Trump has gone on a racist screed against his political foes.

                                Trump has repeatedly referred to Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s wife, Elaine Chao—who was a member of his cabinet—as “Coco Chow.”

                                In August, the former president accused Chao, born in Taiwan, of attempting to “get rich on China.”
                                _____

                                Looks like it's not just DeSantis. Gov. Youngkin is getting too popular for Trump's ego as well.
                                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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