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  • Why a Second Trump Presidency May Be More Radical Than His First

    In the spring of 1989, the Chinese Communist Party used tanks and troops to crush a pro-democracy protest in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square. Most of the West, across traditional partisan lines, was aghast at the crackdown that killed at least hundreds of student activists. But one prominent American was impressed.

    “When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it,” Donald Trump said in an interview with Playboy magazine the year after the massacre. “Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak.”

    It was a throwaway line in a wide-ranging interview, delivered to a journalist profiling a 43-year-old celebrity businessman who was not then a player in national politics or world affairs. But in light of what Trump has gone on to become, his exaltation of the ruthless crushing of democratic protesters is steeped in foreshadowing.

    Trump’s violent and authoritarian rhetoric on the 2024 campaign trail has attracted growing alarm and comparisons to historical fascist dictators and contemporary populist strongmen. In recent weeks, he has dehumanized his adversaries as “vermin” who must be “rooted out,” declared that immigrants are “poisoning the blood of our country,” encouraged the shooting of shoplifters and suggested that the former chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Mark Milley, deserved to be executed for treason.

    As he runs for president again facing four criminal prosecutions, Trump may seem more angry, desperate and dangerous to American-style democracy than in his first term. But the throughline that emerges is far more long-running: He has glorified political violence and spoken admiringly of autocrats for decades.

    As a presidential candidate in July 2016, he praised the former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein as having been “so good” at killing terrorists. Months after being inaugurated, he told the strongman leader of the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte, that his brutal campaign of thousands of extrajudicial killings in the name of fighting drugs was “an unbelievable job.” And throughout his four years in the Oval Office, Trump blew through boundaries and violated democratic norms.

    What would be different in a second Trump administration is not so much his character as his surroundings. Forces that somewhat contained his autocratic tendencies in his first term — staff members who saw their job as sometimes restraining him, a few congressional Republicans episodically willing to criticize or oppose him, a partisan balance on the Supreme Court that occasionally ruled against him — would all be weaker.

    As a result, Trump’s and his advisers’ more extreme policy plans and ideas for a second term would have a greater prospect of becoming reality.

    A Radical Agenda

    To be sure, some of what Trump and his allies are planning is in line with what any standard-issue Republican president would most likely do. For example, Trump would very likely roll back many of President Joe Biden’s policies to curb carbon emissions and hasten the transition to electric cars. Such a reversal of various rules and policies would significantly weaken environmental protections, but much of the changes reflect routine and long-standing conservative skepticism of environmental regulations.

    Other parts of Trump’s agenda, however, are aberrational. No U.S. president before him had toyed with withdrawing from NATO, the United States’ military alliance with Western democracies. He has said he would fundamentally reevaluate “NATO’s purpose and NATO’s mission” in a second term.

    He has said he would order the military to attack drug cartels in Mexico, which would violate international law unless its government consented. It most likely would not.

    He would also use the military on domestic soil. While it is generally illegal to use troops for domestic law enforcement, the Insurrection Act allows exceptions. After some demonstrations against police violence in 2020 became riots, Trump had an order drafted to use troops to crack down on protesters in Washington, D.C., but didn’t sign it. He suggested at a rally in Iowa this year that he intends to unilaterally send troops into Democratic-run cities to enforce public order in general.

    “You look at any Democrat-run state, and it’s just not the same — it doesn’t work,” Trump told the crowd, calling cities like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco crime dens. “We cannot let it happen any longer. And one of the other things I’ll do — because you’re supposed to not be involved in that, you just have to be asked by the governor or the mayor to come in — the next time, I’m not waiting.”

    Trump’s plans to purge immigrants living in the country illegally include sweeping raids, huge detention camps, deportations on the scale of millions per year, stopping asylum, trying to end birthright citizenship for babies born on U.S. soil to parents living in the country illegally and invoking the Insurrection Act near the southern border to also use troops as immigration agents.

    Trump would seek to expand presidential power in myriad ways — concentrating greater authority over the executive branch in the White House, ending the independence of agencies Congress set up to operate outside of presidential control and reducing civil service protections to make it easier to fire and replace tens of thousands of government workers.

    More than anything else, Trump’s vow to use the Justice Department to wreak vengeance against his adversaries is a naked challenge to democratic values. Building on how he tried to get prosecutors to go after his enemies while in office, it would end the post-Watergate norm of investigative independence from White House political control.

    In all these efforts, Trump would be backed in a second term by a well-funded outside infrastructure. In 2016, conservative think tanks were bastions of George W. Bush-style Republicanism. But new ones run by Trump administration veterans have sprung up, and the venerable Heritage Foundation has refashioned itself to stay in step with Trumpism.

    A coalition has been drawing up America First-style policy plans, nicknamed Project 2025. (Trump’s campaign has expressed appreciation but said only plans announced by him or his campaign count.) While some proposals under development in such places would advance long-standing Republican megadonor goals, such as curbing regulations on businesses, others are more tuned to Trump’s personal interests.

    The Center for Renewing America, for example, has published a paper titled “The U.S. Justice Department Is Not Independent.” The paper was written by Jeffrey Clark, whom Trump nearly made acting attorney general to aid his attempt to subvert the election and is facing criminal charges in Georgia in connection with that effort.

    Asked for comment, a spokesperson for Trump did not address specifics but instead criticized The New York Times while calling Trump “strong on crime.”

    Weakened Guardrails

    Even running in 2016, Trump flouted democratic norms.

    He falsely portrayed his loss in the Iowa caucuses as fraud and suggested he would treat the results of the general election as legitimate only if he won. He threatened to imprison Hillary Clinton, smeared Mexican immigrants as rapists and promised to bar Muslims from entering the United States. He offered to pay the legal bills of any supporters who beat up protesters at his rallies and stoked hatred against reporters covering his events.

    In office, Trump refused to divest from his businesses, and people courting his favor booked expensive blocks of rooms in his hotels. Despite an anti-nepotism law, he gave White House jobs to his daughter and son-in-law. He used emergency power to spend more on a border wall than Congress authorized. His lawyers floated a pardon at his campaign chair, whom Trump praised for not “flipping” as prosecutors tried unsuccessfully to get him to cooperate as a witness in the Russia inquiry; Trump later did pardon him.

    But some of the most potentially serious of his violations of norms fell short of fruition.

    Trump pressured the Justice Department to prosecute his adversaries. The Justice Department opened several criminal investigations, from the scrutiny of former Secretary of State John Kerry and of former FBI Director James Comey to the attempt by a special counsel, John Durham, to find a basis to charge Obama-era national security officials or Clinton with crimes connected to the origins of the Russia investigation. But to Trump’s fury, prosecutors decided against bringing such charges.

    And neither effort for which he was impeached succeeded. Trump tried to coerce Ukraine into opening a criminal investigation into Biden by withholding military aid, but it did not cooperate. Trump sought to subvert his 2020 election loss and stoked the Capitol riot, but Vice President Mike Pence and congressional majorities rejected his attempt to stay in power.

    There is reason to believe various obstacles and bulwarks that limited Trump in his first term would be absent in a second one.

    Some of what Trump tried to do was thwarted by incompetence and dysfunction among his initial team. But over four years, those who stayed with him learned to wield power more effectively. After courts blocked his first, haphazardly crafted travel ban, for example, his team developed a version that the Supreme Court allowed to take effect.

    Four years of his appointments created an entrenched Republican supermajority on the Supreme Court that most likely would now side with him on some cases that he lost, such as the 5-4 decision in June 2020 that blocked him from ending a program that shields from deportation certain people living in the country illegally who had been brought as children and grew up as Americans.

    Republicans in Congress were often partners and enablers — working with him to confirm judges and cut corporate taxes, while performing scant oversight. But a few key congressional Republicans occasionally denounced his rhetoric or checked his more disruptive proposals.

    In 2017, then-Sen. Bob Corker rebuked Trump for making reckless threats toward North Korea on Twitter, and then-Sen. John McCain provided the decisive vote against Trump’s push to rescind, with no replacement plan, a law that makes health insurance coverage widely available.

    It is likely that Republicans in Congress would be even more pliable in any second Trump term. The party has become more inured to and even enthusiastic about Trump’s willingness to cross lines. And Trump has worn down, outlasted, intimidated into submission or driven out leading Republican lawmakers who have independent standing and demonstrated occasional willingness to oppose him.

    McCain, who was the 2008 GOP presidential nominee, died in 2018. Former Rep. Liz Cheney, who voted to impeach Trump for inciting the Jan. 6, 2021, riot and helped lead the committee that investigated those events, lost her seat to a pro-Trump primary challenger. Sen. Mitt Romney, the 2012 Republican presidential nominee and the only GOP senator who voted to convict Trump at his first impeachment trial, is retiring.

    Fear of violence by Trump supporters also enforces control. In recent books, both Romney and Cheney said that Republican colleagues, whom they did not name, told them they wanted to vote against Trump in the Jan. 6-related impeachment proceedings but did not do so out of fear for their and their families’ safety.

    Personnel Is Policy

    Perhaps the most important check on Trump’s presidency was internal administration resistance to some of his more extreme demands. A parade of his own former high-level appointees has since warned against returning him to office, including a former White House chief of staff, John Kelly; former defense secretaries Jim Mattis and Mark T. Esper; former national security adviser John Bolton; former Attorney General William Barr; and others.

    Trump in turn has denounced them all as weak, stupid and disloyal. He has privately told those close to him that his biggest mistakes concerned the people he appointed, in particular his choices for attorney general. The advisers who have stuck with him are determined that if he wins a new term, there will be no officials who intentionally stymie his agenda.

    In addition to developing policy papers, the coalition of think tanks run by people aligned with Trump has been compiling a database of thousands of vetted potential recruits to hand to a transition team if he wins the election. Similar efforts are underway by former senior Trump administration officials to prepare to stock the government with lawyers likely to find ways to bless radical White House ideas rather than raising legal objections.

    Such staffing efforts would build on a shift in his final year as president. In 2020, Trump replaced advisers who had sought to check him and installed a young aide, John McEntee, to root out further officials deemed insufficiently loyal.

    Depending on Senate elections, confirming particularly contentious nominees to important positions might be challenging. But another norm violation Trump gradually developed was making aggressive use of his power to temporarily fill vacancies with “acting” heads for positions that are supposed to undergo Senate confirmation.

    In 2020, for example, Trump made Richard Grenell — a combative Trump ally and former ambassador to Germany — acting director of national intelligence. Two prior Trump-era intelligence leaders had angered Trump by defending an assessment that Russia had covertly tried to help his 2016 campaign and by informing Democratic leaders it was doing so again in 2020. Grenell instead won Trump’s praise by using the role to declassify sensitive materials that Republicans used to portray the Russia investigation as suspicious.

    After Trump left office, there were many proposals to codify into law democratic norms he violated. Ideas included tightening limits on presidents’ use of emergency powers, requiring disclosure of their taxes, giving teeth to a constitutional ban on outside payments and making it harder to abuse their pardon power and authority over prosecutors.

    In December 2021, when Democrats still controlled the House, it passed many such proposals as the Protecting Our Democracy Act. Every Republican but one — then-Rep. Adam Kinzinger, who was retiring after having voted to impeach Trump after the Jan. 6 riot — voted against the bill, which died in the Senate.

    The debate on the House floor largely played out on a premise that reduced its urgency: Trump was gone. Democrats argued for viewing the reforms as being about future presidents, while Republicans dismissed it as an unnecessary swipe at Trump.

    “Donald Trump is — unfortunately — no longer president,” said Rep. Rick Crawford, R-Ark. “Time to stop living in the past.”

    _________

    Why are you still talking about Trump?
    Trump isn't president anymore
    Trump isn't in power anymore

    Donald Trump is — unfortunately — still the undisputed Leader of the former Republican Party and, by far, the frontrunner for that party's presidential ticket in 2024.

    Donald Trump has been clearly laying out his plans for a fascistic second term - which the Electoral College could hand to him, again.

    It's more than past time to start acting like it.
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
      Trump’s violent and authoritarian rhetoric on the 2024 campaign trail has attracted growing alarm and comparisons to historical fascist dictators and contemporary populist strongmen. In recent weeks, he has dehumanized his adversaries as “vermin” who must be “rooted out,” declared that immigrants are “poisoning the blood of our country,” encouraged the shooting of shoplifters and suggested that the former chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Mark Milley, deserved to be executed for treason.
      Yep, Hitler would be proud. In fact I think I see his eyes tearing a bit...

      Comment


      • The Atlantic is dedicating their entire issue to what a second Trump administration will look like.

        People are ringing the alarm. Wake up!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by statquo View Post
          The Atlantic is dedicating their entire issue to what a second Trump administration will look like.

          People are ringing the alarm. Wake up!
          That would require people in political power to accept they're doing things wrong and change. So fat chance of the Biden administration changing due to their arrogance or Top Hatter stopping doing mass copyright infringement under the guise of discussion but not really talking about anything.

          Vote No Labels. If Biden doesn't resign and Haley doesn't pull off a miracle it's the only chance the country has.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rj1 View Post

            That would require people in political power to accept they're doing things wrong and change. So fat chance of the Biden administration changing due to their arrogance or Top Hatter stopping doing mass copyright infringement under the guise of discussion but not really talking about anything.

            Vote No Labels. If Biden doesn't resign and Haley doesn't pull off a miracle it's the only chance the country has.
            Y'know, you've shoveled a lot of shit on me over the past several months and I've tried repeatedly to engage with you in a reasonable and respectful manner.

            Your response has been to both ignore me and shovel yet more shit on me.

            Are you trying to get a rise out of me or are you just acting like this on general principles?
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rj1 View Post
              Top Hatter stopping doing mass copyright infringement
              There's no copyright infringement going on. This site is a non-commercial, non-profit entity, and content re-posted from elsewhere for the purpose of commentary and discussion is permitted under the Fair Use Provision of Title 17, U.S.C. Section 107. Furthermore, every article that has content reposted here includes a link back to its source, which is effectively free advertising for that source.

              If there were copyright infringement going on, there would be multiple cease-and-desist notifications having been sent out everyday for the last 20 years. Which has never happened.
              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

              Comment


              • Donald Trump’s 2024 Campaign, in His Own Menacing Words
                Trump’s language has become darker, harsher and more threatening during his third run for the White House.

                As he campaigns for another term in the White House, Donald Trump sounds like no other presidential candidate in U.S. history.

                He has made baldly antidemocratic statements, praising autocratic leaders like China’s Xi Jinping and continuing to claim that the 2020 election was stolen. “I don’t consider us to have much of a democracy right now,” Trump said.

                He has threatened to use the power of the presidency against his political opponents, including President Biden and Biden’s family. Trump frequently insults his opponents in personal terms, calling them “vermin,” as well as “thugs, horrible people, fascists, Marxists, sick people.”

                He has made dozens of false or misleading statements. He has advocated violence, suggesting that an Army general who clashed with him deserved the death penalty and that shoplifters should be shot. And he describes U.S. politics in apocalyptic terms, calling the 2024 election “our final battle” and describing himself as his supporters’ “retribution.”

                Many Americans have heard only snippets of these statements because Trump makes them on Truth Social, his niche social media platform, or at campaign events that receive less media coverage than when he first ran for president eight years ago. But his words offer a preview of what a second Trump term might look like.

                For years, Trump has insulted political opponents, painted a dark picture of the country and made comments inconsistent with democratic norms. But his language has grown harsher, as he admits. “These are radical left people,” Trump said of Democrats in Salem, N.H., in January. “I think in many cases they’re Marxists and Communists. And I used to say that seldom. Now I say it all the time.”

                Trump’s stolen-election talk, preoccupation with his criminal indictments and pledges to seek revenge have become organizing principles of his current campaign. He has made the same case — sometimes word for word — in dozens of appearances since announcing his candidacy last year. “He’s not laying out a political agenda,” said Didi Kuo of Stanford University’s Center on Democracy, Development and the Rule of Law. “His campaign is based purely on stoking division and on attacking our institutions in order to defend himself.”

                (In a continuing series of Times stories, our colleagues Jonathan Swan, Charlie Savage and Maggie Haberman have previewed a potential second Trump presidency. Among the subjects: legal policy, immigration and the firing of career government employees.)

                Many democracy experts are deeply alarmed. “If he says what he means and means what he says, and someday is able to implement it, it’s an existential crisis that the U.S. would face,” said Barbara Perry, a presidential historian at the University of Virginia’s Miller Center.

                Barbara Comstock, a Republican former congresswoman from Virginia, told us, “This is a very embittered man who I think very much wants to take these actions.”

                “Both this rhetoric and all G.O.P. plans announced for a second Trump term indicate clearly that retribution and institutional destruction outside the rule of law will prevail if he returns to the White House,” Theda Skocpol, a Harvard political scientist, said.

                To help readers understand the situation, The Times has compiled a list of Trump’s most extreme comments during the campaign so far. The list includes many false statements, including Trump’s claims that the 2020 election was rigged, that the murder rate is at a record high and that Biden is behind the criminal indictments against Trump. Trump also frequently makes false claims about other political figures.

                We have grouped his statements into 11 categories.

                The stakes

                Trump has used apocalyptic terms to describe the impact of the 2024 election:
                • “2024 is the final battle. … If we don’t win this next election, 2024, I truly believe our country is doomed. I think it’s doomed.”March 25, Waco, Texas
                • “If we don’t stop them this time, I think that’s going to be the end. I really do.” Jan. 28, Salem, N.H.
                • “Our beloved nation is teetering on the edge of tyranny.” June 24, Washington
                • “The gravest threats to our civilization are not from abroad, but from within.” Nov. 15, 2022, Palm Beach, Fla.
                • “If those opposing us succeed, our once beautiful U.S.A. will be a failed country that no one will even recognize. A lawless, open-borders, crime-ridden, filthy, communist nightmare. That’s what it’s going and that’s where it’s going. … Either they win or we win. And if they win, we no longer have a country.” March 4, National Harbor, Md.
                • “Either we surrender to the demonic forces, abolishing and demolishing — and happily doing so — our country, or we defeat them in a landslide on Nov. 5, 2024. Either the deep state destroys America, or we destroy the deep state.” March 25, Waco, Texas
                • “This election will decide whether America will be ruled by Marxist, fascist and communist tyrants who want to smash our Judeo-Christian heritage.” Sept. 15, Washington
                • “I will prevent World War III. … And without me, it will happen. And this won’t be a conventional war with army tanks going back and forth, shooting each other. This will be nuclear war. This will be obliteration. Perhaps obliteration of the entire world.” June 10, Columbus, Ga.
                Governance as revenge

                Trump has threatened to use government powers to punish people he perceives as his critics and opponents:
                • “This is a sick nest of people that needs to be cleaned out immediately. Get them out.” June 10, Columbus, Ga.(He was referring to Jack Smith, the special counsel investigating Trump, and others at the Justice Department.)
                • “We will root out the deep state and stop the weaponization of federal agencies because there’s a weaponization like nobody’s ever seen. We will use every tool at our disposal.” Jan. 28, Salem, N.H.
                • “On Day 1 of my new administration, I will direct the D.O.J. to investigate every radical district attorney and attorney general in America for their illegal, racist-in-reverse enforcement of the law.” April 27, Manchester, N.H.
                • “Comcast, with its one-side and vicious coverage by NBC NEWS, and in particular MSNBC, often and correctly referred to as MSDNC (Democrat National Committee!), should be investigated for its ‘Country Threatening Treason.’ … I say up front, openly, and proudly, that when I WIN the Presidency of the United States, they and others of the LameStream Media will be thoroughly scrutinized for their knowingly dishonest and corrupt coverage of people, things, and events. … They are a true threat to Democracy and are, in fact, THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE! The Fake News Media should pay a big price for what they have done to our once great Country!” Sept. 24, Truth Social
                • “As soon as I am re-elected, I will appoint a real special counsel — or maybe you’ll call it a special prosecutor, whatever you want to call it, you can — to look at all of these bribes, kickbacks and other crimes as well as the shameless attempt at a cover-up. Justice will be done. The Biden crime family will be looked at. … When we get there, the Biden crime family will pay a price.” Aug. 15, Rumble
                • “I will appoint a real special prosecutor to investigate the Biden bribery and crime ring.” June 27, Concord, N.H.
                • “From the first day in office, I will appoint a special prosecutor to study each and every one of the many claims being brought forth by Congress concerning all of the crooked acts, including the bribes from China and many other countries, that go into the coffers of the Biden crime family.” Aug. 5, Columbia, S.C.
                • “I will fire the unelected bureaucrats and shadow forces who have weaponized our justice system like it has never been weaponized before.” March 4, National Harbor, Md.
                Character attacks

                Trump’s personal attacks have become more specific and menacing:
                • Biden “has gone mad, a stark raving lunatic.” Aug. 10, Truth Social
                • Biden is “the most corrupt president in American history, and it’s not even close.” Feb. 7, Truth Social
                • “Biden is a Stone Cold Crook.” Aug. 27, Truth Social
                • “Instead of keeping terrorists and terrorist sympathizers out of America, the Biden administration is inviting them in. You know why? Because he’s got a boss. Who’s his boss? Barack Hussein Obama.” Oct. 11, West Palm Beach, Fla.
                • Nancy Pelosi “is a Wicked Witch whose husbands journey from hell starts and finishes with her. She is a sick & demented psycho who will someday live in HELL!” Aug. 6, Truth Social
                • “Deranged Jack Smith — he’s the prosecutor, he’s a deranged person — wants to take away my rights under the First Amendment, wants to take away my right of speaking freely and openly.” Sept. 15, Washington
                • “We have a rogue judge. … We have a racist attorney general who’s a horror show.” Oct. 2, New York City(He was referring to Arthur Engoron, the judge overseeing Trump’s civil fraud trial, and to Letitia James, New York State’s attorney general.)
                • “They say there’s a young woman, a young racist in Atlanta. She’s a racist … And this is a person that wants to indict me. She’s got a lot of problems.” Aug. 8, Windham, N.H.(His comments were directed at Fani Willis, a Georgia prosecutor investigating Trump for trying to overturn the 2020 election results in the state.)
                • “I have to stay around and fight off the Crazed Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Marxists, and Fascists … this COUNTRY DESTROYING Scum.” Aug. 27, Truth Social
                • “They’re flooding your towns with deadly drugs, selling your jobs to China, mutilating your children. They’re mutilating your children.” March 25, Waco, Texas(He was referring to Democrats.)
                Rhetoric of cataclysm

                His claims of national decline have intensified:
                • “Under Biden, our nation is being destroyed by a selfish, radical and corrupt political establishment. … We’re going Marxist. We have skipped socialism. That train has already left.” Jan. 28, Salem, N.H.
                • “Our rights and our liberties are being torn to shreds and your country is being turned into a third-world hellhole ruled by censors, perverts, criminals and thugs.” July 15, West Palm Beach, Fla.
                • “Our country — the way it’s going right now — is going into a depression. We’re going into a depression, like in 1929-type Depression, and we’re not going to let that happen.” April 27, Manchester, N.H.
                • “We are living in a catastrophe. … What’s happening with our country is a disgrace and it’s a laughingstock all over the world.” April 27, Manchester, N.H.
                • “Our enemies are waging war on faith and freedom, on science and religion, on history and tradition, on law and democracy, on God Almighty himself. They are waging war.” June 24, Washington
                • “Savage killers, rapists and violent criminals are being released from jail to continue their crime wave. And under Biden, the murder rate has reached the highest in the history of our country.” Feb. 7, Truth Social
                • “I believe it’s the most dangerous time in the history of our country.” April 14, Indianapolis
                • “The blood-soaked streets of our once great cities are cesspools of violent crimes, which are being watched all over the world, as leadership of other countries explain that this is what America and democracy is really all about.” Nov. 15, 2022, Palm Beach, Fla.
                • “New York City is a crime den. Chicago is a crime den. You look at these great cities — Los Angeles, San Francisco. You look at what’s happening to our country.” March 13, Davenport, Iowa
                • “You’re afraid to walk through one of these Democrat cities. You go out for a loaf of bread, you end up getting shot.” April 14, Indianapolis
                • “We’re not a free nation right now. We don’t have free press. We don’t have free anything. … We do not have free speech.” March 4, National Harbor, Md.
                References to violence

                Trump encourages or excuses violence:
                • “Mark Milley, who led perhaps the most embarrassing moment in American history with his grossly incompetent implementation of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, costing many lives, leaving behind hundreds of American citizens, and handing over BILLIONS of dollars of the finest military equipment ever made, will be leaving the military next week. This will be a time for all citizens of the USA to celebrate! This guy turned out to be a Woke train wreck who, if the Fake News reporting is correct, was actually dealing with China to give them a heads up on the thinking of the President of the United States. This is an act so egregious that, in times gone by, the punishment would have been DEATH!” Sept. 22, Truth Social
                • “Very simply: If you rob a store, you can fully expect to be shot as you are leaving that store. Shot.” Sept. 29, Anaheim, Calif.
                • “We’ll stand up to crazy Nancy Pelosi, who ruined San Francisco. How’s her husband doing, by the way, anybody know? And she’s against building a wall at our border even though she has a wall around her house, which obviously didn’t do a very good job.” Sept. 29, Anaheim, Calif.(Trump was referring to Paul Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi’s husband, who was attacked with a hammer in a home invasion. The attacker told the police he was motivated in part by Trump’s false claims of a stolen election.)
                Immigration crackdown

                He has promised a harsh federal crackdown on immigrants:
                • “We have complete chaos. Fentanyl is pouring in. Families are being wiped out, destroyed, and there’s death everywhere, all caused by incompetence. … Other countries are emptying out their prisons, insane asylums and mental institutions and sending all of their problems right into their dumping ground: the U.S.A.” March 4, National Harbor, Md.
                • “We will use all necessary state, local, federal and military resources to carry out the largest domestic deportation operation in American history.” April 27, Manchester, N.H.
                • “This is an invasion of our country, what’s coming across our border. It’s no different than soldiers. And they’re bringing a lot of different problems than soldiers would bring. They’re not bringing merely bullets, and they’re bringing plenty of them. … They’re killing the blood, the lifestream of our country.” March 13, Davenport, Iowa
                • “Our Southern border has been erased, and our country is being invaded by millions and millions of unknown people. … We’re being poisoned.” Nov. 15, 2022, Palm Beach, Fla.
                • “I’ll ask every state and federal agency to identify every known or suspected gang member in America and every one of them that is here illegally. The police know every one of them, and we’ll pick them up, and we’ll send them back home where they came from. They’ll be out of here.” April 27, Manchester, N.H.
                • “For any radical left charity, non-profit or so called aid organizations supporting these caravans and illegal aliens, we will prosecute them for their participation in human trafficking, child smuggling and every other crime we can find.” Nov. 4, Truth Social
                Corrupt justice, part one

                Trump argues that the justice system is rigged, often in reference to the four criminal indictments against him:
                • “We have two standards of justice in our country: one for people like you and me, and one for the corrupt political class.” Jan. 19, Truth Social
                • “Our justice system has become lawless. They’re using it now, in addition to everything else, to win elections.”April 4, Palm Beach, Fla.
                • “Crooked Joe Biden and his radical left thugs have weaponized law enforcement to arrest their leading opponent — by a lot, leading — on fake and phony charges.” Sept. 15, Washington
                • “Joe Biden has weaponized law enforcement against his political opposition, the greatest abuse of power in American history, by far.” June 30, Philadelphia
                • “This is the continuation of the greatest witch hunt of all time. That’s all it is. And its primary purpose is election interference.” June 27, Concord, N.H.
                Corrupt justice, part two

                Trump also says the justice system is rigged against his supporters, including the Jan. 6, 2021, rioters:
                • “We have Antifa and B.L.M., who hate our country and burn down our cities, and they’re protected by law enforcement, while we put great American patriots in jail and destroy their lives.” Jan. 28, Salem, N.H.
                • “Antifa thugs who are allowed to roam the streets while we have people that in many cases are great patriots — great, great patriots — sing prayers every night, playing our national anthem every day. And they’re sitting in a jail nearby, rotting away and being treated so unfairly like nobody’s probably ever been treated in this country before, except maybe me.” March 4, National Harbor, Md.
                • “American patriots are being arrested & held in captivity like animals, while criminals & leftist thugs are allowed to roam the streets, killing & burning with no retribution.” March 18, Truth Social
                • “Patriotic parents, Christians, conservatives, pro-life activists are being hounded by the F.B.I. and the D.O.J. like terrorists. They’re being treated so badly.” March 25, Waco, Texas
                • “If the Communists get away with this, it won’t stop with me. They will not hesitate to ramp up their persecution of Christians, pro-life activists, parents attending school board meetings and even future Republican candidates.” June 13, Bedminster, N.J.
                The 2020 election

                Trump continues to falsely accuse Democrats of rigging the 2020 election:
                • “I believe we also won two general elections, OK? If you want to know the truth.” Jan. 28, Salem, N.H.
                • “Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.” Dec. 3, 2022, Truth Social
                • “There was never a second of any day that I didn’t believe that that election was rigged. It was a rigged election. It was a rigged election and it was a stolen, disgusting election, and this country should be ashamed. And they go after the people that want to prove that it was rigged and stolen. … They don’t go after the people that rigged it.” Aug. 8, Windham, N.H.
                • “The radical left Democrats rigged the presidential election of 2020. … We won the first one and we won the second one even bigger, and we got — we got screwed, that’s what happened. We had a rigged election. Our opponents are showing every day that they hate democracy.” Nov. 18, Fort Dodge, Iowa
                Undemocratic comparisons

                He argues that the U.S. has come to mimic its longtime global rivals and enemies and has become undemocratic:
                • “You go back to Communist China or look at a third-world banana republic. That’s what we’ve become.” March 25, Waco, Texas
                • “Our elections were like those of a third-world country.” April 4, Palm Beach, Fla.
                • “They’re trying to arrest their political opposition. It’s really very much like the old Soviet Union.” April 14, Indianapolis
                • “Many of those people coming from Cuba, Venezuela, other countries, they’ve seen this happening to their countries.” June 13, Bedminster, N.J.
                Praise for autocrats

                He speaks admiringly of authoritarian leaders:
                • “President Xi: Smart, top of his game. President Putin: Smart. Very smart people.” March 25, Waco, Texas
                • “We did a fantastic job with Kim Jong-un. You know, I got along with him very well. The fake news said, It’s terrible that he gets along with him. I said, Really? It’s not terrible, it’s a very good thing. You know, it’s a positive thing.” June 30, Philadelphia
                • “A man who looks like a piece of granite, right? He’s strong like granite. He’s strong. I know him very well, President Xi of China. … He runs 1.4 billion people with an iron hand. … I got along well with Putin. That’s a good thing.” Nov. 18, Fort Dodge, Iowa
                • “One of the strongest leaders, Viktor Orban from Hungary . … He’s a very strong man — very strong, powerful man — and one of the most respected leaders in the world. He’s tough. No games, right?” Nov. 18, Fort Dodge, Iowa
                ________
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • Republican debate being hosted by…. NewsNation? Smells like a slight to MSM and the candidates. Why not give them a bigger platform to possibly reach more voters? Or is it a ploy to limit them to protect the soft, sensitive feelings of Trump?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                    Y'know, you've shoveled a lot of shit on me over the past several months.
                    Please, I barely post here.

                    and I've tried repeatedly to engage with you in a reasonable and respectful manner.
                    For you to engage with someone would require you to actually type your thoughts instead of just posting a link to what someone else wrote.

                    [quote[Are you trying to get a rise out of me or are you just acting like this on general principles?[/QUOTE]

                    You're just about the only person in the thread and it's you posting links. If you want to do that, go start a news aggregator.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rj1 View Post
                      Please, I barely post here.
                      Please, it doesn't take a lot of posts. Just barely a few in fact.

                      Originally posted by rj1 View Post
                      For you to engage with someone would require you to actually type your thoughts instead of just posting a link to what someone else wrote.
                      And I've done exactly that. Repeatedly. In direct response to your own posts. You've ignored them.

                      Are you trying to get a rise out of me or are you just acting like this on general principles?
                      Originally posted by rj1 View Post
                      You're just about the only person in the thread and it's you posting links. If you want to do that, go start a news aggregator.
                      Already covered that in my previous responses to you, weeks/months ago, and so have a couple other members. You've ignored them.

                      So, I'll ask you again: Are you trying to get a rise out of me or are you just acting like this on general principles?
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                        Why a Second Trump Presidency May Be More Radical Than His First

                        In the spring of 1989, the Chinese Communist Party used tanks and troops to crush a pro-democracy protest in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square. Most of the West, across traditional partisan lines, was aghast at the crackdown that killed at least hundreds of student activists. But one prominent American was impressed.
                        Food for thought. The US (any Administration) does not consider Tianamen to be illegal.
                        Chimo

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          Food for thought. The US (any Administration) does not consider Tianamen to be illegal.
                          True, it was communicated to the CCP that the US considered it an 'internal matter'. However all official visits and military sales to China were suspended. Which indicates clear disapproval.

                          The salient point though is "[Trump's] exaltation of the ruthless crushing of democratic protesters", demonstrated that he's had this attitude of approval for governmental brutality against unarmed protestors for decades.

                          The man's been a neo-fascist pretty much from Day One and hasn't tried to hide it.
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • Trump says he will be a dictator only on ‘day one’ if elected president
                            At town hall event in Iowa with Fox News host Sean Hannity, the former president was asked to deny that he would use ‘power as retribution’

                            Former president Donald Trump declined to rule out abusing power if he returns to the White House, after being asked to respond to growing criticism of his authoritarian rhetoric.

                            The Republican presidential frontrunner has talked about targeting his rivals – referring to them as “vermin” – and vowed to seek retribution if he wins a second term for what he argues are politically motivated prosecutions against him.

                            Trump had to be asked twice during a televised town hall event in Iowa hosted by Sean Hannity of Fox News to deny that he would abuse power to seek revenge on political opponents if re-elected to the White House.

                            “Under no circumstances, you are promising America tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody?” Hannity asked Trump in the interview taped in Davenport, Iowa on Tuesday.

                            “Except for day one,” Trump responded. Trump said on the “day one” he referred to, he would use his presidential powers to close the southern border with Mexico and expand oil drilling.

                            Trump then repeated his assertion. “I love this guy,” he said of the Fox News host. “He says, ‘You’re not going to be a dictator, are you?’ I said: ‘No, no, no, other than day one. We’re closing the border and we’re drilling, drilling, drilling. After that, I’m not a dictator.’”

                            Earlier in the interview, Hannity had asked Trump if he “in any way” had “any plans whatsoever, if reelected president, to abuse power, to break the law to use the government to go after people.”

                            “You mean like they’re using right now?” Trump replied.

                            Trump’s campaign rhetoric and sweeping plans for a second term that include firing large swathes of the federal bureaucracy and targeting his rivals have alarmed Democrats and become a chief election argument for Biden as he prepares for a potential rematch against Trump.

                            “Donald Trump has been telling us exactly what he will do if he’s reelected and tonight he said he will be a dictator on day one. Americans should believe him,” Biden campaign manager Julie Chavez Rodriguez said in a statement.

                            Biden earlier told campaign donors Tuesday that he wasn’t sure he’d be running for reelection if Donald Trump wasn’t also in the race, warning that democracy is “more at risk in 2024” and that the former president and his allies are “determined to destroy American democracy”.

                            The president noted Trump has described himself as his supporters’ “retribution” and his use of the term “vermin”, famously employed by historical dictators including Adolf Hitler. “We’ve got to get it done, not because of me. ... If Trump wasn’t running I’m not sure I’d be running. We cannot let him win,” Biden said, hitting the last words slowly for emphasis.

                            Trump, meanwhile, has tried to turn the tables on Biden by arguing in a Saturday speech in Iowa that the president is the real “destroyer of American democracy” as he repeated his longstanding and entirely baseless contention that the four criminal indictments against him show Biden is misusing the federal justice system to damage his chief political rival.

                            Biden has not been involved in the indictments.

                            Trump has promised to prosecute Biden if he wins.

                            The event with Hannity, a longtime Trump supporter, had been advertised as a town hall the day before Trump’s leading rivals gather at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa for the fourth Republican debate. But while town halls typically feature audience questions, only Hannity asked questions of Trump on Tuesday. Hannity taped a similar interview with Trump in July.

                            Trump is once again planning to skip Wednesday’s Republican debate and will spend the evening at a fundraiser in Florida instead. Trump has been dominating his rivals both nationally and in Iowa, which will kick off the election with its caucuses on 15 January.
                            __________
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                            Comment


                            • Trump tells supporters, 'Guard the vote.' Here’s the phrase's backstory and why it's raising concern


                              Former President Donald Trump speaks during a Commit to Caucus rally, Saturday, Dec. 2, 2023, in Ankeny, Iowa. Experts in political messaging say former President Donald Trump’s remarks that his supporters must “guard the vote” in 2024 are potentially dangerous and could lead to confrontations at polling place.

                              Former President Donald Trump is urging supporters to “guard the vote” during next year's election, a phrase that has set off alarm bells among pro-democracy advocates who say it signals permission to take extreme measures that could intimidate voters and threaten election workers.

                              The phrase is a relatively novel one for Trump, though activists in the far-right movement have been setting the groundwork for it to be deployed more widely.

                              Former national security adviser Michael Flynn has spent months repeating the phrase in posts, speeches and interviews. And Victor Mellor, a close Flynn associate, told The Associated Press he has been setting up a new group called “Guard the Vote” ahead of the 2024 elections. Mellor provided AP a video that showed the group's new “command center” in a Florida building that houses Flynn's offices.

                              Trump employed the phrase in Ankeny, Iowa, on Saturday, saying his followers need to “guard the vote” because “we have all the votes we need.” He encouraged his supporters to “go into" cities including Detroit, Philadelphia and Atlanta to “watch those votes when they come in.”

                              Experts in political messaging say the context in which Trump uses “guard the vote” primes his supporters to not only expect fraud in diverse Democratic cities next year, but to intervene to ensure Trump wins.

                              “It suggests that the outcome of the election is foregone. It’s been decided,” said Susan Benesch, founder and executive director of the Dangerous Speech Project. “Is it actually guarding the election against fraud, or is it guarding the election against a result in which Trump is not declared the winner?”

                              Trump campaign spokesman Steven Cheung said that by “guard the vote,” Trump meant “to stop any instance of voter fraud in areas where fraud happens.” He did not elaborate, and didn't answer questions about whether the term referred to efforts by Flynn or Mellor.

                              “If he’s really talking about peaceful, normal, legitimate poll watching, then he should say that,” Benesch said.

                              THE BACKSTORY OF ‘GUARD THE VOTE’

                              The phrase “guard the vote” gained popularity in 2022 when right-wing activist groups, including one in Washington state that called itself Guard the Vote, began monitoring ballot drop boxes to try to identify fraud.

                              The term resurfaced earlier this year when Trump was filmed using it during a June event at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey, and when Flynn began pushing the term repeatedly a few weeks later.

                              “I was just recently with President Trump probably about two and a half weeks ago, and we talked about this idea, about guarding the vote,” Flynn said in a July 6 interview with radio host Eric Metaxas. “It means keeping an eye on every single aspect of the vote that we have from the moment it starts, whether it's 45 days or 30 days prior to the vote, all the way through the counting.”

                              Since then, Flynn has posted or publicly discussed guarding the vote at least eight times. In a speech in Rhode Island in September, he discussed being at ballot boxes “24/7” to videotape people dropping off ballots. In a post on X last month, he referenced “concerned citizen guards” at ballot boxes. On Telegram in July, he wrote “#WeThePeople are going to be checking on all of you and the entire election system from top to bottom, start to finish, sunup to sundown.” Flynn did not return an email seeking comment.

                              In general, partisan poll watchers appointed by political parties or other groups are allowed to observe voting and ballot counting but can’t interfere in the election process, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. States have different rules governing their behavior and qualifications.

                              Mellor, who owns a concrete business and has been politically active in Sarasota County, Florida, told AP this week that he established a group called “Guard the Vote,” which would connect members of law enforcement and citizens to do training about elections.

                              Mellor said when he heard Trump use the phrase “guard the vote” on Saturday, he thought “That’s me. I’m ‘guard the vote.’”

                              WILL IT INSPIRE VIOLENCE?

                              Mellor shared few details about the group's plans but said it would involve “educated Americans, educated law enforcement."

                              Asked about criticism that the phrase “guard the vote” could encourage violence or endanger the election system, voters or elections workers, Mellor said it would “absolutely not. There will be no weapons. Everything done by the rule of law.”

                              He said there would be “zero intimidation" and that the group was not a right-wing operation. He said he was encouraging Americans of all political backgrounds to join, and that more details would be announced in the coming days.

                              “This isn't a militant movement. This is an educational movement,” he said, adding that it was meant to help people understand what he called a convoluted election process.

                              While there was no apparent connection to Mellor's effort, right-flank groups began monitoring ballot drop boxes in at least two counties in Arizona during the 2022 midterm elections before a federal judge ordered them to keep their distance from voters. Some were masked and armed, and some were associated with the far-right group Oath Keepers.

                              Mellor shared with AP a video of what he called his “command center” in a building he owns in Venice, Florida, that also houses Flynn’s offices and a studio where Flynn frequently does interviews.

                              The short video showed a large, windowless room surrounded by what appear to be concrete walls with the slogan “GUARD THE VOTE” written on one wall. At the center of the room was a long conference table surrounded by cushioned chairs, with what Mellor said was his handgun atop the table. Asked about the weapon, Mellor told AP he hadn't realized it was in the video and that the gun wasn't sending a message.

                              “I don't leave home without it,” he said.

                              Another wall displayed an oath of office, surrounded by seals and flags for the military branches. Other walls displayed maps of states including Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Georgia, North Carolina, Alaska, Texas, Florida, Wisconsin and Minnesota.

                              A whiteboard displayed notes referring to strategy, including a mention of sheriffs and a list of prominent election deniers. One corner of the whiteboard reads, “Fraud Detection," followed by the words, “Don't use word fraud use election security.”

                              A joint investigation by AP and the PBS series “Frontline” last year detailed how Flynn had been working closely with Mellor since 2021. Mellor established a place called The Hollow and turned it into a center of activity for Proud Boys and other activists in Sarasota County’s far-right community.

                              Mellor, a former Marine, posted a photo on his Facebook page showing him and his son outside the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, and told “Frontline” that he was proud to be there that day. He told AP in October 2022 that he and Flynn are “experiencing and nurturing a true grass-roots movement in its purest form.”

                              “I assure you, this is only the beginning,” Mellor said then.

                              THE LANGUAGE OF WAR

                              Jennifer Mercieca, a historian of political rhetoric at Texas A&M University who wrote a book about Trump's rhetoric, said his use of the word “guard” was notable because it can be a military word, “As if you’re an army.”

                              “And so the framing there is interesting in that it isn’t the language of democracy and the democratic process. It’s the language of warfare,” Mercieca said. “And that’s how fascism works. You say politics is war and the enemy cheats. It’s up to us.”

                              She said Trump's repeated claims that there will be cheating in an election that hasn't happened yet is a way of enlisting his followers into his conspiracy theory. Trump also suggested the elections were rigged against him even before the votes in 2016 and 2020.

                              “You tell the population that the rules are already broken. Right? They’re so corrupt. They are such big cheaters. They are enemies. They are threats. And then you say, And it’s up to us to defend it,” Mercieca said.

                              What should Americans think when they hear Trump use such language?

                              “It’s still a part of Trump’s Jan. 6 insurrection. He’s still ‘couping,’” she said.

                              ELECTION OFFICIALS SAY THEY WON'T BE DETERRED

                              Election officials in the cities Trump named say they are committed to a safe and secure election in 2024 and won't be intimidated by Trump or anyone else.

                              “Detroiters are not scaredy cats. We’re not chumps, we’re not to be picked on,” said Detroit City Clerk Janice Winfrey. “So they can come if they want to, absolutely. We’re ready.”

                              “This is nothing new, Trump says these things before every election,” Philadelphia City Commissioners’ Chairwoman Lisa Deeley said in a statement. “In 2016, he said that they had to watch and make sure that people didn’t vote five times. In 2020, there was ‘Bad Things Happen in Philadelphia’. Each of those elections, 2016 and 2020, were completely fair and accurate and that is what we will continue to deliver in 2024.”

                              Jessica Corbitt, spokesperson for Georgia's Fulton County, declined to respond to Trump's targeting of Atlanta but said election safety is a concern for the county after threats to its workers. She emphasized that “polling places should be safe for everyone.”

                              Officials said they've taken steps to improve election security since 2020. In Detroit, for example, election officials have reinforced their building with bulletproof glass and increased security present during vote-counting.

                              Jena Griswold, Colorado's secretary of state, said she has led new laws to protect against election threats, including bans on threatening or doxxing election workers, tampering with election equipment, or openly carrying firearms near polling locations.

                              “With Donald Trump’s increasingly extreme rhetoric, he continues his attempts to undermine this nation’s free and fair elections," Griswold said. “Every state should follow our lead.”
                              __
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • This is nothing short of an attempt at voter suppression.
                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

                                Comment

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