Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2024 U.S. Election of President and Vice President

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    Joe Biden Is Old. Get Over It.

    Of all the people in the United States, the one best equipped to stop them right now is Joe Biden. For that reason, he not only should run…he really must be the candidate. Indeed, if you care about the political voice of future generations, if you want them to even have a voice in a functioning democracy, it is essential that right now that the oldest president in U.S. history not only run now but that he wins reelection in 2024.
    ___________

    If the choice is between gerontocracy and autocracy. I'll take the old guy who hasn't attempted to over the government.
    The Democrats and Republicans are increasingly both autocrats. Reason #6,985 the politics in this country are complete shit.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rj1 View Post
      If you hate Trump, why do you want him to have roughly a 50% chance at winning the presidency?
      I don't want him to have that chance, but what is there to stop him? Other than his health of course.

      He checks the only two Constitutional boxes for running, and thanks to the Republicans, he has nothing in the Constitutionally-disqualifying column to prevent him from running.

      All that remains is to vote against him and unlike those assholes to the south of me in The Villages, I only have one vote.

      So, all I can do is hope for a 2022 redux and chuckle when it happens.

      Pragmatism, pure and simple.

      Originally posted by rj1 View Post
      We played this game once where the media clearly biased the deck for Trump in the 2016 primaries, and they share the blame for why he became President.
      They absolutely did and they absolutely do. Tens or maybe even hundreds of millions of dollars in free airtime, and that was just for starters.

      But it isn't 2016 anymore. It doesn't really matter what the media does, regarding the 2024 Republican primary.

      It's Trump's party, it's Trump's nomination, and the only thing that's likely to change those two facts is, once again, his health.

      Originally posted by rj1 View Post
      So I love history, find me his historical predecessor. The closest parallel to Trump in my opinion is Andrew Jackson. Guy that came in from completely outside the political mainstream, angry about the game was rigged against him (1824 election where Henry Clay and John Quincy Adams made "the Corrupt Bargain"), was never accepted by Washington political elites, and routinely had fractious relations with his Cabinets.
      Sounds about right...although Trump wasn't running to actually win and Jackson was.

      Originally posted by rj1 View Post
      Biden was picked to be the boring, safe, "return to normal" alternative. (That and Democrats organized to deny Sanders the nomination.)
      Very true, but....it was really down to Biden and....nobody. Who else was going to able to defeat Trump? Not Sanders, certainly. Biden was the only one with the chops and enough mainstream appeal.

      Originally posted by rj1 View Post
      (I can go find a blog stating literally anything you could imagine. It's the internet, it's a large place. Do you want me to write 1500 words on a Substack, copy it here in a post, and act like my opinion is authoritative on the matter?)
      I mean, if you really want to...

      I never said he was authoritative. Merely an example. One of many proclaiming the Decline of DeSantis. With one exception, I avoid regularly using political blogs as sources. In hindsight, I probably should've added a really big disclaimer, so I've gone back and done so.
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rj1 View Post

        The Democrats and Republicans are increasingly both autocrats.
        Sorry man, it isn't even close. Not by a country mile.

        And I say that as someone who spent nearly 20 years on this very board railing against the Democrats.

        Not. Even. Close.
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
          Very true, but....it was really down to Biden and....nobody. Who else was going to able to defeat Trump? Not Sanders, certainly. Biden was the only one with the chops and enough mainstream appeal.
          I question if he had the chops more than "we have nothing else". He ran for President twice before, was a complete non-entity also-ran both times. It's not like the electorate didn't know him before 2020. He's the Democrats' version of Bob Dole 1996. And say what you will about Iowa and New Hampshire, but they're the only 2 places where common people actually get to know the people running for President and their issues, it's not true in Nevada or South Carolina or anywhere else, and Biden completely failed in 2020 primaries in both places.

          The reason he's President is the Democratic Party it became clear in the 2020 primaries was completely leaderless meaning it was fractionalized (ditto Republicans in 2008, 2012, and 2016, which Trump capitalized on), everyone that was not supporting Sanders was afraid Sanders would win using the Trump 2016 strategy, Sanders for what everyone tries to act differently is not nor has he ever been a Democrat, he's an entryist no different than Trump in 2016 that wanted to change the party to be in his image. Both parties in the modern era their power has completely dissipated as they have become less machine, less party boss-driven, which leaves them weak enough for these single-issue coalitions and personality-driven politicians to win their nominations. The African-American base of the party were outside of the Sanders group the only group that deadset knew who they were for and who they were not far, they are one of the last true party machines left in American politics. When no one else rose above the fray with the exception of Pete Buttigieg (I live very close to South Bend so am highly skeptical on how Mayor Pete ever became a thing), Biden was it because progressives and blacks absolutely hated Buttigieg. And African-Americans were for Biden because he was Obama's Vice President and Kamala Harris/Cory Booker never took off. So Joe Biden is President now because of a decision made 15 years ago. If Obama had picked Chris Dodd to be Vice President in 2008, I think Dodd would be President now.
          Last edited by rj1; 27 Apr 23,, 14:23.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

            Sorry man, it isn't even close. Not by a country mile.

            And I say that as someone who spent nearly 20 years on this very board railing against the Democrats.

            Not. Even. Close.
            Good for you. To quote the Chinese of old "we live in interesting times".
            Last edited by rj1; 27 Apr 23,, 14:30.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rj1 View Post

              Good for you.
              Thank you.

              Originally posted by rj1 View Post
              To quote the Chinese of old "we live in interesting times".
              Ain't that the truth...

              I could do with some boredom right about now.
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rj1 View Post

                I question if he had the chops more than "we have nothing else". He ran for President twice before, was a complete non-entity also-ran both times. It's not like the electorate didn't know him before 2020. He's the Democrats' version of Bob Dole 1996. And say what you will about Iowa and New Hampshire, but they're the only 2 places where common people actually get to know the people running for President and their issues, it's not true in Nevada or South Carolina or anywhere else, and Biden completely failed in 2020 primaries in both places.

                The reason he's President is the Democratic Party it became clear in the 2020 primaries was completely leaderless meaning it was fractionalized (ditto Republicans in 2008, 2012, and 2016, which Trump capitalized on), everyone that was not supporting Sanders was afraid Sanders would win using the Trump 2016 strategy, Sanders for what everyone tries to act differently is not nor has he ever been a Democrat, he's an entryist no different than Trump in 2016 that wanted to change the party to be in his image. Both parties in the modern era their power has completely dissipated as they have become less machine, less party boss-driven, which leaves them weak enough for these single-issue coalitions and personality-driven politicians to win their nominations. The African-American base of the party were outside of the Sanders group the only group that deadset knew who they were for and who they were not far, they are one of the last true party machines left in American politics. When no one else rose above the fray with the exception of Pete Buttigieg (I live very close to South Bend so am highly skeptical on how Mayor Pete ever became a thing), Biden was it because progressives and blacks absolutely hated Buttigieg. And African-Americans were for Biden because he was Obama's Vice President and Kamala Harris/Cory Booker never took off. So Joe Biden is President now because of a decision made 15 years ago. If Obama had picked Chris Dodd to be Vice President in 2008, I think Dodd would be President now.
                That all sounds about right. "He was the best of what was left"

                I'll go to my grave repeating this:

                The only person that could get Donald Trump elected was Hillary Clinton and the only person that could get Joe Biden elected was Donald Trump.
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                  I'll go to my grave repeating this:

                  The only person that could get Donald Trump elected was Hillary Clinton and the only person that could get Joe Biden elected was Donald Trump.
                  It's about right, Hillary's pride and arrogance is also at fault for Trump getting elected

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rj1 View Post

                    It's about right, Hillary's pride and arrogance is also at fault for Trump getting elected
                    And even then he needed the Electoral College to bail him out of a 2.8 million vote deficit.
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rj1 View Post

                      It's about right, Hillary's pride and arrogance is also at fault for Trump getting elected
                      That’s the “ pride and arrogance” of the single most qualified person to run for president since … George the Sane? Tricky Dick?
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DOR View Post

                        That’s the “ pride and arrogance” of the single most qualified person to run for president since … George the Sane? Tricky Dick?
                        Qualified or not, you still have to win. And that means smart campaigning. And Hillary ran a stupid and arrogant campaign.

                        Bill knew it and tried to get her campaign managers to course correct. They brushed him off and we got 4 years of Donald Trump as a reward.
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • Trump vows to investigate prosecutors, says Biden represents anarchy



                          MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (Reuters) -Donald Trump said on Thursday that if he wins the 2024 presidential election, he will order the Justice Department to investigate "radical" county and state prosecutors whom he accused, without evidence, of targeting conservatives.

                          In a campaign speech, the former president, who faces multiple criminal investigations, said the prosecutors were "persecuting conservatives" and touched on his policy positions and personal grievances as he painted himself as a victim of the so-called Deep State.

                          "On day one of my new administration, I will direct the DOJ to investigate every radical district attorney and attorney general in America for their illegal, racist ... enforcement of the law," Trump told more than 1,000 supporters in Manchester, New Hampshire.

                          Trump faces at least four criminal investigations including a federal probe into his alleged role in the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by his supporters and a recent New York indictment related to a hush money payment to a porn star. Trump has denied wrongdoing and called the investigations politically motivated.

                          The call for federal probes of prosecutors fits what critics have described as Trump's increasingly authoritarian rhetoric on the campaign trail. On Thursday, he repeated plans for a "truth and reconciliation commission" as part of a purge of the federal bureaucracy.

                          Trump also sought to reframe the choice between him and President Joe Biden. Biden, a Democrat, launched his re-election campaign two days ago with a video promising to protect personal freedoms from "extremists" linked to the former Republican president.

                          Trump said the U.S. was a "failing nation" and pointed to economic data on Thursday showing U.S. economic growth slowed dramatically in the first three months of 2023.

                          "The choice in this election is now between strength or weakness, between success or failure, between safety or anarchy, between peace or conflict, and prosperity or catastrophe," Trump said.

                          Trump's remarks assume that both he and Biden will win their party's nominations. Trump appeared to be consolidating his support in the race for the Republican nomination and travels to New Hampshire in hope of capturing the early nominating state.

                          The former president, who handily won New Hampshire's primary in 2016, had a sizeable national lead over Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, 49% to 23%, among self-identified Republicans, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll conducted April 21-24.

                          In a mocking moment, Trump drew applause when he shuffled around the stage pretending he was struggling to find the exit, suggesting he may revive a theme from his 2020 campaign when he portrayed Biden as elderly and lacking energy and acuity.

                          In February the president's personal physician, Dr. Kevin O'Connor, issued Biden a clean bill of health and said he was fit to continue his duties. Biden, 80, is the oldest person ever to serve as U.S. president. Trump is 76.

                          Trump on Thursday repeated the false claim that his election loss in 2020 was due to systemic fraud orchestrated by the Democrats.
                          _____________

                          Now that is one deeply frightened man-baby lol

                          "The choice in this election is now between strength or weakness, between success or failure, between safety or anarchy, between peace or conflict, and prosperity or catastrophe," Trump said.

                          Sounds like he's campaigning for Biden

                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • ‘The DeSantis people are rookies’: Even Trump critics say he’s running circles around DeSantis



                            Donald Trump has always been an agent of chaos. But these days his campaign operation is a picture of order.

                            Despite the legal turmoil surrounding him, Trump has been methodically undercutting Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis — snatching up congressional endorsements, blasting attack ads and dominating news cycles. It’s a campaign operation characterized by an unusual level of organization and discipline — one that’s chipping away at his likely chief rival before he even jumps in the race.

                            “Trump came to New Hampshire the other day [and] rolled out 51 endorsements,” said Fergus Cullen, a former New Hampshire Republican Party chair and early member of the “Never Trump” movement. “There was nothing like that the first time or the second time.”

                            By comparison, he said, “the DeSantis people are rookies.”

                            Trump's onslaught has been disorienting for the nascent DeSantis operation. The Florida governor, who's expected to announce his candidacy in the coming weeks, plans to make the case that he will counter Trump's circus with a sense of normalcy that positions him to do what many Republicans fear Trump cannot: Defeat President Joe Biden. But that argument is running head first into the tidy — and muscular — organization the former president is putting together.

                            In recent weeks, Trump’s team has worked to bank wins before DeSantis officially enters the race. They have rolled out policy videos focused on a second Trump term and made hires in early voting states. They have developed relationships with state party leaders, met with lawmakers at Mar-a-lago and worked the phones to steal endorsements from DeSantis in his home state. Trump is even doing a town hall event with CNN, a former cable news foe of the ex-president, in an effort to reach more mainstream audiences. Now DeSantis — a politician who places a high premium on control – will be forced to catch up.

                            “This is a campaign run by adults who have excelled at the ‘crib kill’ strategy,” said Michael Caputo, a friend and longtime adviser to Trump, on how the campaign is targeting DeSantis by nailing down endorsements before DeSantis gets into the race. “Trump hasn’t done it before. He absolutely eschewed the congressional endorsements in 2016 and his campaign turned their nose up at it. It’s a completely different world.”

                            The change in that dynamic, people close to the campaign say, is due in part to Trump’s own knowledge of how the presidential campaign process works. This is, after all, his third time running. But it is also the product of a team of advisers who have had worked with Trump or on Trump-adjacent operations for years, including Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita, as well as Brian Jack, who served as Trump’s political director in the White House.

                            Those advisers and others on his team have kept a low profile as they have worked behind the scenes to build out support in Congress, plan state visits and political events, put county-level operations in place, and tend to state party leaders who go on to become influential delegates. State-level GOP officials from places like Nevada and Louisiana have made visits to Mar-a-lago for fundraisers and other events, where Trump has made time to talk to them and follow through with any personal requests they have, like signing hats to auction off at home.

                            The dueling politicians’ strategies were described in interviews with over a dozen Republicans working for Trump, DeSantis, or in 2024 presidential politics.

                            Their focus on early blocking and tackling paid off when a majority of the Florida congressional delegation announced Trump endorsements just as DeSantis was visiting Washington, D.C. last month. Lawmakers said Trump had personally called and reached out. Some had only heard from a pollster for DeSantis, or revealed they had no relationship with their own state governor at all.

                            “The challenge that DeSantis and others face is that Donald Trump has a several years head start on this, they’ve continued to foster a significant organization across states that will make it difficult for later entrants who haven’t built that same infrastructure,” said a Republican strategist who has been in contact with almost every Republican presidential campaign. DeSantis, he said, “has a ton of money and not much organization.”

                            But, he added, it’s too soon for DeSantis supporters to panic. While some donors are beginning to worry that the Florida governor can’t beat Trump, those in his tightly-controlled orbit are expressing a mix of confidence in his standing as the lead alternative to Trump and hope that the ex-president’s legal troubles and recent election losses puncture his early dominance.

                            “Coming off of an historical re-election victory, DeSantis has the most robust political apparatus with national reach that no one is aware of,” said one person with close ties to the Florida governor, who was granted anonymity to speak freely before the campaign launches. “If he decides to run, there is no ramp up. The machine is built, full of rocket fuel and ready to launch.”

                            That machine begins with a deep budget, huge fundraising potential and a team of loyalists hiring staff in critical nominating states.

                            Never Back Down, a super PAC formed by ex-Trump staffer Ken Cuccinelli, has raised $33 million so far to support DeSantis’ pending campaign, according to a representative for the group, who was granted anonymity to speak about the fundraising ahead of an official filing in July. In addition, the $85 million war chest DeSantis built up during his gubernatorial campaign can likely be transferred into a PAC supporting his presidential bid — giving him an enormous financial advantage heading into the election.

                            “The energy our team is seeing for Ron DeSantis from Iowa to South Carolina day in and day out continues to build, and we are leveraging all the tools at our disposal to expand this momentum and, ultimately, get Ron DeSantis elected to the White House,” PAC spokesperson Erin Perrine said in a prepared statement.

                            After Trump announced a slate of congressional endorsements from DeSantis’ home state of Florida, Never Back Down rolled out the backing of 19 state lawmakers from Michigan.

                            “This is spring ball right now. The campaign will kick off shortly and then people will start putting points on the board,” said one Florida-based political operative who supports DeSantis but would only speak on the condition of anonymity since he is not yet an announced candidate.

                            The PAC, which has reportedly received $20 million from real estate mogul Robert Bigelow, has been running ads in four early voting states touting DeSantis’ blue-collar roots and conservative record.

                            The entity has hired operatives in Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire and Nevada and is staffing up its Atlanta-based senior team, including former Nevada Attorney General Adam Laxalt. It also recently launched “Students for DeSantis,” which mobilizes college students to phonebank and canvas for the campaign.

                            Election law prohibits coordination between PACs and campaigns, but Never Back Down has thus far been serving as the vehicle to promote DeSantis ahead of his launch.

                            “They’re going to use the super PAC as the ground game operation,” said someone else close to the DeSantis team, who was granted anonymity to speak openly about strategy. “The campaign is going to be basically in charge of TV messaging, the candidate’s scheduling and time. Paid media is going to be the campaign and grassroots operation is going to be the Super PAC.”

                            Meanwhile the governor — who returned this week from an overseas trip intended to bolster his foreign policy chops — is planning to host a dinner at his official residence in Tallahassee next week with fundraisers, according to two people familiar with the event.

                            Nevertheless, one political strategist working on Trump’s re-election effort said they have an inherent advantage in not having to spend millions simply introducing the public to the ex-president.

                            “Donald Trump is Donald Trump. We don’t have to spend a single dollar telling people why you should vote for him,” said the strategist, who was granted anonymity to discuss this stage of the race freely. “All we need to do is beat the shit out of DeSantis. So their money has to do a whole lot of different things: their super PAC has to build a ground game, tell who he is, and tell people why they shouldn’t vote for Trump.”

                            The pro-Trump Make America Great Again super PAC has spent millions over the past five weeks on advertising that targets DeSantis’ record on Social Security and Medicare.

                            Meanwhile the Trump campaign has worked on staffing in early primary states like New Hampshire. Trump’s campaign was the first to announce any hires in New Hampshire in late January when it brought on the former New Hampshire GOP chair Stephen Stepanek as a senior adviser focused on the state. In late March Trump brought on Trevor Naglieri, an alum of Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz's presidential campaigns, as state director.

                            Last week in Iowa, Trump announced the endorsements of 13 state legislators and former elected officials from eastern Iowa. A Trump adviser credited some of those endorsements to the work of Trump’s hires in the state, which includes Bobby Kaufmann, the son of the Iowa GOP chairman Jeff Kaufmann, Alex Latcham, who worked in the Trump White House, and state director Marshall Moreau.

                            Trump’s campaign is also working on identifying potential donors or volunteers in states based on data they’ve compiled from events or from the previous two campaigns in the state. According to another Trump adviser, they have already identified 192,000 people in New Hampshire who have donated or signed up online to say they want to do something with the campaign, or attended rallies over the last six years.

                            That’s not to say Trump won’t inject chaos into everything again. He has been discussing the possibility of not participating in upcoming Republican primary debates. But the overall operation’s discipline is now playing out in the polls. A CBS News/YouGov Poll released on Monday showed Trump with 58 percent of support from Republican primary voters, compared to DeSantis with 22 percent.

                            “Definitely in the last couple of weeks there's been a growing resignation to the likelihood that Trump may yet end up as the nominee again,” Cullen said.
                            ____________

                            Color me surprised....not that he's currently beating DeSantis but that he's found enough adults to run an organized campaign. Of course, he knows the consequences of losing again...maybe that's all the incentive he needs.
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                              [SIZE=18px][URL="https://www.yahoo.com/news/desantis-people-rookies-even-trump-083000790.html"]
                              Color me surprised....not that he's currently beating DeSantis but that he's found enough adults to run an organized campaign. Of course, he knows the consequences of losing again...maybe that's all the incentive he needs.
                              Remind me again, can a President pardon him or herself? Alternately can a President be charged while in office?

                              If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Monash View Post

                                Remind me again, can a President pardon him or herself? Alternately can a President be charged while in office?
                                Maybe? But likely not.

                                And...Maybe?

                                Both are extremely murky questions that would probably go straight up the ladder to the SCOTUS.
                                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X