Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2022 American Political Scene

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by zraver View Post

    THat was a hoax and yet you still peddle it....

    Trump: toughest sanctions on Russia, kicked Assad in the teeth twice despite Russia's defense of Assad, allowed the US to smother Russian mercs who expected the Americans to flee rather than fight. Proved he was willing to target high profile individuals when he targeted an Iranian general, pushed NATO to spend more to counter Russia and moved US troops into Poland.

    Biden: removes Russian sanctions, son collects millions from Russian oligarchs, pledged to only act with allies who will never act due to energy blackmail.


    Putin felt empowered under Obama, sat quiet under Trump and now feels empowered again. Nobody is as good for our enemies as a Democrat president. Before Obama it was Clinton empowering the rise of China.
    *casually leaves out 9/11...*

    Didn't China just takeover Hong Kong for good too? Who was president then?

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by statquo View Post
      *casually leaves out 9/11...*
      You've lost us here, son. 11 Sept was two POTUS before Trump.

      Originally posted by statquo View Post
      Didn't China just takeover Hong Kong for good too? Who was president then?
      Bill Clinton but what does he got anything to do with Hong Kong when it was Margret Thatcher and Deng Xia Peng who were doing most of the job back then.
      Chimo

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        Bill Clinton but what does he got anything to do with Hong Kong when it was Margret Thatcher and Deng Xia Peng who were doing most of the job back then.
        Nothing to do with Hong Kong, but Chinese were funding Democrats on the sly massively in 1996. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_U...ce_controversy

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          You've lost us here, son. 11 Sept was two POTUS before Trump.

          Bill Clinton but what does he got anything to do with Hong Kong when it was Margret Thatcher and Deng Xia Peng who were doing most of the job back then.
          You mean Donald Trump? How come he didn't intervene to protect the democratic rights of those in Hong Kong that were agreed upon and upheld after the British gave Hong Kong back to China?

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            You've lost us here, son. 11 Sept was two POTUS before Trump.
            Comment was in reference to the statement that
            Nobody is as good for our enemies as a Democrat president
            . I remember a Republican president during 9/11. If we're going to start going back in time to the Clintons why are Republican presidents being casually ignored? How about Russia and Georgia in 2008. Let's keep going with this pointless partisan scoreboard tallying by naming every time Russia or China or Iran or North Korea or anyone who's considered an enemy of the US poses or launches some external threat and then just blame it on whoever's party is in power and get off topic more.
            Last edited by statquo; 21 Feb 22,, 17:09.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by rj1 View Post

              Nothing to do with Hong Kong, but Chinese were funding Democrats on the sly massively in 1996. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_U...ce_controversy
              That interesting, I never knew that. Thanks.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by zraver View Post

                THat was a hoax and yet you still peddle it....

                Trump: toughest sanctions on Russia, kicked Assad in the teeth twice despite Russia's defense of Assad, allowed the US to smother Russian mercs who expected the Americans to flee rather than fight. Proved he was willing to target high profile individuals when he targeted an Iranian general, pushed NATO to spend more to counter Russia and moved US troops into Poland.

                Biden: removes Russian sanctions, son collects millions from Russian oligarchs, pledged to only act with allies who will never act due to energy blackmail.


                Putin felt empowered under Obama, sat quiet under Trump and now feels empowered again. Nobody is as good for our enemies as a Democrat president. Before Obama it was Clinton empowering the rise of China.
                Might have nothing to do with biden, trump. Or just that Trump is a wildcard, easy to predict Biden will not risk military engagment.

                I have actually been impressed with how the biden admin have handled the crises last few weeks, believe they have used a good strategy that risks making them look stupid if Putin doesnt laucnh an invasion but presents the only credible strategy available to them. And for what's its worth, not a fan of biden and agree with those who suggest there is a strong probability he is suffering from substantial cognitive decline. Or whatever people want to call it these days.

                Reality is increasingly the USA just can't control China or Russia in their spheres of influence, no matter who is president. I would also argue the china approach by America was reasonable at the time although has proven a disaster with hindsight.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by statquo View Post

                  That interesting, I never knew that. Thanks.
                  Yeah, how that never became a bigger deal is something. It's also painted in the modern day hypocritical in light of all the Democratic angst about Trump. (Foreign influence in American elections is a major wrong, ALL foreign influence.) The Democrats' defense here to know how bad a position they were in was yes, people in Congress took the money as did the Democratic National Committee, but we didn't know it was from the Chinese and we gave the money all back after the fact. There were hundreds of individuals involved in this and multiple Congressmen involved, and news orgs were "this investigation is clearly being impeded, it's hard to find anyone willing to admit being responsible for anything". The Democrats in Congress were able to kill it saying it was a partisan investigation, Attorney General Reno did not appoint an Independent Counsel, Clinton was never asked questions about it, Democrats were successful in keeping it to "only Congressmen" as benefitting. One of the 20 or so scandals Clinton was involved with.

                  With regard to their overall efficacy, investigators are on record as having stated that the Congressional investigations were hamstrung due to lack of co-operation of witnesses. Ninety-four people either refused to be questioned, pled the Fifth Amendment, or left the country altogether.
                  Last edited by rj1; 21 Feb 22,, 18:09.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by statquo View Post
                    You mean Donald Trump? How come he didn't intervene to protect the democratic rights of those in Hong Kong that were agreed upon and upheld after the British gave Hong Kong back to China?
                    The Americans ain't signatories to the treaty written by Thactcher and Deng and thus, have zero standings in enforcing that treaty.

                    And the only thing anyone can do to protect Hong Kong democratic rights is to start a nuclear war and Hong Kong ain't worth WWIII.

                    Originally posted by statquo View Post
                    Comment was in reference to the statement that . I remember a Republican president during 9/11.
                    You've got to be shitting me. We didn't start that one. Al Qaeda did.

                    Originally posted by statquo View Post
                    If we're going to start going back in time to the Clintons why are Republican presidents being casually ignored? How about Russia and Georgia in 2008.
                    Georgia ATTACKED Russia.

                    Originally posted by statquo View Post
                    Let's keep going with this pointless partisan scoreboard tallying by naming every time Russia or China or Iran or North Korea or anyone who's considered an enemy of the US poses or launches some external threat and then just blame it on whoever's party is in power and get off topic more.
                    That's simple. Tally up the reasons. Is it in our strategic interest or not. And this is the WAB, you will find out debates on these matters through out the forum. The Korean War and the Vietnam War did far more damage to the US than Afghanistan and Iraq.
                    Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 21 Feb 22,, 23:29.
                    Chimo

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by statquo View Post

                      *casually leaves out 9/11...*

                      Didn't China just takeover Hong Kong for good too? Who was president then?
                      9/11... We can debate that but all of the planning was done during Clinton. Who despite repeated AQ attacks viewed Bin Laden as a criminal not military threat. Had Clinton viewed AQ as a serious military threat we might have stopped 9/11. This is not a defense of Bush who promptly forgot about A-Stan almost before the ink on the Patriot Act was dry to go after Saddam. Regardless Clinton enabled the rise of AQ. Obama enabled USIS and an eventual nuclear Iran. The Bidens have carpet burn on his knees going back years when it comes to Putin connected oligarchs. Dems are not good for American security.

                      Going to point out the obvious that Hong Kong is Chinese, it was only a 99 year lease that expired in 1997.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                        Or just that Trump is a wildcard,
                        Trump wasn't a wildcard. He kicked Putin's teeth in, being the only president since Woodrow Wilson in the last century to order attacks on Russian ground pounders.

                        https://www.newsweek.com/total-f-rus...-dozens-818073

                        Newsweek is virulently anti-Trump, yet posted the above account. The fact is Trump withdrew the US from any number of arms control treaties the Russians were openly flouting, including INF and the Open Skies agreement. Trump's entire shtick is to be publicly conciliatory with guys like Xi and Putin while kicking them in the nuts. The theory may be that you need to keep communication channels open. Note that Trump was sanctioning Nord Stream 2 by going after the companies involved. Biden reversed course. In fact, Biden is looking to go back to the arms treaties that the Russians have been flouting. Putin has the measure of his opposite number.

                        Trump said something that stuck with me. Alluding to ancient history, he pointed out that it was once custom to completely obliterate your enemy and his civilian supporters if he decided to wage guerrilla warfare against you. Since we were bound hand and foot in Afghanistan by Geneva rules, there was no end to the tens of billions we'd spent there annually. That was why he chose to withdraw.

                        But in force on force action, he displayed no hesitation in striking Russian mercs in Syria, which is, by any definition of the word, peripheral to US interests. Whereas, to the extent that the US has interests abroad, Europe remains the crown jewel. Putin probably feared Trump would provide air support to Ukraine, in much the same way the Russians provided it to North Korea in 1950.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Parihaka View Post

                          You seem constantly surprised that the right hates you as much as you hate them.
                          Personally, I'm constantly surprised that the right hates America as much as I hate the anti-democrats.
                          Yes, that's a small-d democrats.
                          Trust me?
                          I'm an economist!

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            A wee plea, can we keep American internal politics that have zero bearing on Ukraine, in the American politics section?
                            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                            Leibniz

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                              A wee plea, can we keep American internal politics that have zero bearing on Ukraine, in the American politics section?
                              That's an excellent idea
                              "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                So Biden gets an A for the Ukraine part of his speech, being lucid and about the burn pits, and a B for the last couple of minutes of it. I think the rest was just more spending wishlist that would make inflation and equality worse. No surprises there.

                                But can anyone explain to me WITAF Pelosi was doing? Biden talking about burn pits had her rubbing her knuckles with glee. It was down right creepy. It wasn't just that one instance either, she was incredibly distracting and her mannerisims were way out of sync with the message.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X