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  • Originally posted by DOR View Post

    What's the evidence any kid in any school has ever been taught any thing inappropriate?
    Well it's quite simple really, invent a problem that doesn't exist but is sure to instantly provoke boiling outrage.

    --Hint, use children. Always use children--

    Then throw in subtle or overt overtones of pedophilia to reach maximum boil.

    Next, jump in between "the children" and your made-up problem like a superhero father-figure by introducing legislation that "combats" the problem that you invented.

    Finally, maximize the political rewards of your depraved propaganda by milking your completely gullible and thoroughly paranoid base for everything you can (votes, money, cult-like loyalty)

    Rinse, lather, repeat.
    "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

    Comment


    • Far-Right’s Pedo Obsession Goes Mainstream With Calls to ‘Bring Ammo’ to Disney Fight
      As Capitol rioters fought with police on Jan. 6, 2021, a Trump supporter named Sean McHugh allegedly heckled law enforcement. “You guys like protecting pedophiles?” he shouted at police from a megaphone, according to prosecutors. “There is a Second Amendment behind us, what are you going to do then?”

      The insinuation that Capitol police supported pedophiles, and should therefore be subject to violence, was noteworthy—in part because McHugh had previously been convicted of statutory rape against a 14-year-old.

      McHugh’s alleged remarks about pedophilia might have been inscrutable to more moderate Republicans in early 2021. But for years, the militant right has encouraged violence on the basis of false (and sometimes hypocritical) accusations of child exploitation. Now, a year after the Capitol riot, the broader GOP is embracing those baseless accusations, falsely conflating their foes and the LGBT community with pedophiles, while amplifying calls to violence.

      It’s a cynical line of attack that has already led to violence in fringe-right communities. Now it’s going mainstream. In recent weeks, the smear has spread from violent groups like the Proud Boys, to elected officials and pundits who call for ridiculous boycotts of Disney for opposing Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” bill.

      Right-wing attempts to smear the LGBT community as predatory are nothing new. For decades, conservatives have attempted to malign gay people as a threat to children, even while some of those same conservatives preyed on minors.

      But a conspiracy-fueled movement has revamped that panic for the marriage-equality era.

      That conspiratorial slurry—conflating Democrats, pedophilia, and implicit calls for violence—was in the works even before Donald Trump’s 2016 victory. In October of that year, a white supremacist Twitter account falsely accused Hillary Clinton of being part of a gay pedophilia ring. The rumors would become the basis of the discredited Pizzagate conspiracy theory, which wrongly claimed that Democratic elites were participating in child sex-trafficking at a Washington, D.C., pizzeria.

      From its outset, the hoax was virtually indistinguishable from calls to violence. The D.C. pizzeria, Comet Ping Pong, was inundated with threats. “I will kill you personally,” read one, directed at the restaurant’s owner. Less than two months after the hoax first appeared on Twitter, a gunman entered the restaurant and fired several rounds into the interior. He later told police that he was there to investigate Comet Ping Pong and rescue sex-trafficked children from its interior. Two years later, another man entered the restaurant and set fire to its curtains.

      The conspiracy theory soon metastasized into QAnon, an influential hoax that expanded on the Pizzagate rumors, falsely accusing a broad swath of Trump’s rivals of supporting pedophilia.


      Meanwhile, some far-right activists outright fabricated evidence of supposed child exploitation on the left. In October 2017, students at Columbia University gathered to protest a talk by Mike Cernovich, a conspiracy theorist who was once charged with rape (a charge that was later downgraded to misdemeanor battery). Counter-demonstrators on the right posed in front of the students with a poster promoting the “North American Man-Boy Love Association.” Although students quickly discovered and destroyed the poster, far-right Twitter personalities circulated a picture of the sign, falsely claiming that it showed acceptance for pedophiles.

      Militant far-right groups have also taken up the conspiracy theories, tying them even more explicitly to calls for violence. The Proud Boys, a violent paramilitary group, have acted as a “security” force for QAnon marches that used the slogan “Save Our Children,” and have marched into street clashes in Portland, Oregon, with “Save Our Children” shields. Messaging about “killing pedophiles” is common in Proud Boy chat channels, although a popular Proud Boys shirt, which bears the group’s logo and the message “ALL OF OUR ENEMIES ARE PEDOPHILES” suggests that their targets go far beyond actual child abusers.

      Increasingly, the Proud Boys and other violent groups have tied those pedophilia claims to the LGBT community. An Oregon Proud Boys leader recently called an LGBT flag a “gay pedophilic flag,” and in Los Angeles this summer, a series of violent anti-transgender protests falsely smeared a transgender activist as a pedophile.

      While the pedo-panic ran rampant on the far right, elected Republicans remained somewhat removed from the smear until recent months. But amid a GOP push to ban references to LGBT people in schools, some politicians have fallen back on the far right’s more bloodthirsty tropes. In Florida, members of Gov. Ron DeSantis’ administration claimed that legislation banning references to LGBT people in schools—dubbed by critics the “Don’t Say Gay” law—was actually an “anti-grooming bill.”

      “Grooming” refers to the process of luring children for sexual abuse. But a right-wing campaign, with origins on message boards like 4chan, attempts to repurpose the definition to include simply educating children about a range of topics, including race and gender.

      The term’s viral use this month accompanied new calls for violence. After the Walt Disney Company condemned Florida’s anti-gay law, far-right internet personality Jack Posobiec tweeted a picture of a T-shirt featuring an edited version of the Disney logo. “Boycott groomers, bring ammo,” the shirt read.

      Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene also adopted the pedophilia smear. “The Democrats are the party of pedophiles,” the Georgia Republican claimed in a Tuesday night broadcast about transgender children. (She previously accused senators of being “pro-pedophile” for confirming Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to the Supreme Court.)

      While Greene’s claims are baseless, she has taken up a more forgiving position toward people charged with other criminal offenses. Greene has emerged as a vocal champion of alleged Capitol rioters, visiting some defendants in a D.C. jail and describing them as “prisoners of war.”

      “Persecuting people awaiting trial to the point they lose hope and commit suicide is not due process,” Greene recently tweeted of Jan. 6 defendants.

      That post was retweeted by an account for one of the Jan. 6 defendants awaiting trial in the D.C. jail: Sean McHugh, the convicted statutory rapist who allegedly attacked Capitol police as defenders of pedophilia.
      ______
      "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

      Comment


      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

        Well it's quite simple really, invent a problem that doesn't exist but is sure to instantly provoke boiling outrage.

        --Hint, use children. Always use children--

        Then throw in subtle or overt overtones of pedophilia to reach maximum boil.

        Next, jump in between "the children" and your made-up problem like a superhero father-figure by introducing legislation that "combats" the problem that you invented.

        Finally, maximize the political rewards of your depraved propaganda by milking your completely gullible and thoroughly paranoid base for everything you can (votes, money, cult-like loyalty)

        Rinse, lather, repeat.
        Not sure if California was the inspiration for Florida's law or not but apparently California mandates gender studies for 5yo's. So it's not purely a figment of DeSantis imagination.

        I tend to fall with the author of this wapo opinion piece. Wait till the kids are older and can handle more mature concepts.

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ity-seriously/

        Comment


        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
          I tend to fall with the author of this wapo opinion piece. Wait till the kids are older and can handle more mature concepts.

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ity-seriously/
          I actually have no problem with that, in fact that's exactly how I feel as well. It's what DeSantis is doing with the situation (see previous posts^^)
          "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

            I actually have no problem with that, in fact that's exactly how I feel as well. It's what DeSantis is doing with the situation (see previous posts^^)
            How much of the hate DeSantis gets is really deserved? I know you can't stand him but your a partisan. The mainstream media is hostile as well. But Florida seems to have done better than NY or NJ during covid despite an older population,(deaths per 100k), beats the pants off everyone economically during covid and looks to be the runaway champion on fewest deaths of despair and deaths from missed appointments/screenings during covid. She has a budget surplus etc. So how much of the hate is deserved vs simply partisan raging since he looks to be a walk on favorite for the GoP nomination if he runs and Trump doesn't. In fact his Laissez Faire approach to covid and the economy is appealing to my Libertarian instincts. He is also killing in in local polls with independents (north of 60%)

            So open mind here: if you have a solid reason for me not to consider him Kay it out. I'll listen and research your points.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by zraver View Post

              How much of the hate DeSantis gets is really deserved? I know you can't stand him but your a partisan. The mainstream media is hostile as well. But Florida seems to have done better than NY or NJ during covid despite an older population,(deaths per 100k), beats the pants off everyone economically during covid and looks to be the runaway champion on fewest deaths of despair and deaths from missed appointments/screenings during covid. She has a budget surplus etc. So how much of the hate is deserved vs simply partisan raging since he looks to be a walk on favorite for the GoP nomination if he runs and Trump doesn't. In fact his Laissez Faire approach to covid and the economy is appealing to my Libertarian instincts. He is also killing in in local polls with independents (north of 60%)

              So open mind here: if you have a solid reason for me not to consider him Kay it out. I'll listen and research your points.
              You've already made up your mind, so why bother? You've already classified the reason for any hate against him to be partisan because of....his ratings? Because when you've got high enough ratings, any hate directed your way can only be partisan? Wow...

              You've never met a logical fallacy that you didn't love have you?

              Your list of positive attributions for him is either faulty or full of asterisks at best, or have you forgotten that I actually live in Florida, and work directly in the healthcare industry and thus am able to talk to actual medical professionals about DeSantis and his COVID response?

              As for listening and researching my points, it's a good thing copy-and-paste is available, it saves a LOT of time.

              Engaging with you on these matters has proven on multiple occasions to be utterly pointless:
              • You don't read the links that you yourself post which are, at best, supermarket tabloids or more commonly the worst kind of far-right conspiracy theory blogs.
              • You certainly don't read the links that others post.
              • You can't even remember the shit that you confidently pontificated on just a few weeks ago.
              • You move goalposts more often than a soccer pitch grounds crew
              • You use dog whistles more often than a canine trainer
              Thanks, but I'll pass.
              "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

              Comment


              • You are partisan, everything you post is anti-GoP. That said, I told you I would keep an open mind. I don't live in Florida or work in healthcare. All I have access to on the surface is comparing like states to each other. Closed and locked down vs open and not locked down. Like most Americans I think the lockdowns did more harm than good. IIRC there was a study that said lock downs had a .2% impact on death rates but radically drive up things like deaths of despair.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  You are partisan, everything you post is anti-GoP.
                  No, just anti-Trrrrrruuuuummmmppp.

                  Which is of course the same thing.

                  And DeSantis is simply another version of Trump...except DeSantis doesn't think that windmills cause cancer. Or that there were airports during the Revolutionary War. Or that disinfectant could be injected into a human body to fight COVID.

                  On the other hand he does sneer at masks as "theatrical". And he's your typical anti-vaxxer. So he's got that going for him. /s

                  But at least you've confirmed my prediction that you've already made up you mind.
                  Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  That said, I told you I would keep an open mind. I don't live in Florida or work in healthcare. All I have access to on the surface is comparing like states to each other. Closed and locked down vs open and not locked down. Like most Americans I think the lockdowns did more harm than good. IIRC there was a study that said lock downs had a .2% impact on death rates but radically drive up things like deaths of despair.
                  The study you quote has not been peer-reviewed and other studies say otherwise.

                  But I don't expect that make much of a dent in your cognitive dissonance (nor do I expect that you'll bother to click on that link)

                  As I said, thanks but I'll pass.

                  Your posts on Ukraine are usually a very good read though. Keep it up.
                  "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

                  Comment


                  • Actually I did read it. The highest claim I saw was just under 11%. So low end .02 to a high-end of 11%. That's about 100k lives. Assume they will breakdown along normal covid lines concentrated in those over 75 with pre-existing comorbities. Fair assumption?

                    Deaths of despair are up 28% with an extra 28,000 just from OD's. Suicides add thousands more while missed cancer screenings during the pandemic may lead to as many as half a million extra deaths over the next decade. In terms of life years lost rather than just lived the gap is even wider.

                    Missed education and socialization for the kids and the impact of future earnings, supply chain disruptions, lost jobs, nursing home patients dying alone, inflation... These also add costs to the lock downs.


                    With hindsight do you think they were worth it?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      With hindsight do you think they were worth it?
                      Once again you appear incapable of reading what people have posted.

                      I have neither the time nor the inclination to engage with you on....anything, for the reasons I gave above.
                      "Donald Trump is the first seditious president in our history. He decided he would not abide by the election, the duly constituted, free election of Joe Biden as the president of the United States, and staged a coup to keep Biden from taking office." ~ Carl Bernstein

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by zraver View Post

                        Inappropriate is often in the eye of the beholder. I asked a specific question relating to any science that may exist.

                        I know when my kids were K3 I was more interested in them learning how to play well with others, and learning how to read, spell, and count.
                        I asked a very specific question, which you ignored.
                        So, I'll return the favor.
                        Trust me?
                        I'm an economist!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DOR View Post

                          I asked a very specific question, which you ignored.
                          So, I'll return the favor.
                          Actually I did answer your question specifically, if you personally indirectly when replying to TH. California mandates gender studies for 5yo. That's not appropriate. I think NJ is now doing something similar. I am not aware of any science that supports the notion that kids who still believe in Santa Claus can properly contextualize complex ideas about gender, gender fluidity, sexual oreintation and how they interact with each other when the adults in the room still can't define what gender is, it's differences from sex or how many genders there actually are.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by zraver View Post

                            Not sure if California was the inspiration for Florida's law or not but apparently California mandates gender studies for 5yo's. So it's not purely a figment of DeSantis imagination.

                            I tend to fall with the author of this wapo opinion piece. Wait till the kids are older and can handle more mature concepts.

                            https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...ity-seriously/
                            Yep. The history of the oppression of minorities is taught from fourth grade...not kindergarten.
                            Trust me?
                            I'm an economist!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DOR View Post

                              Yep. The history of the oppression of minorities is taught from fourth grade...not kindergarten.
                              What does teaching kids in the 4th grade that America made mistakes that betrayed her founding principles have to do with teaching K-3 gender theories they can't possibly understand.
                              Last edited by zraver; 12 Apr 22,, 18:32.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                                Gaetz is such a horse's ass....
                                I agree, and am including the quote because that needed repeating with added bolding and increased font size.
                                Last edited by JRT; 12 Apr 22,, 23:35.
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