Biden's Economy

[Monash]

Funny how splurging money on illegals, DEI, Ukraine and no accountability when it comes to any spending will not add to the deficit. They screwed the economy and then I am supposed to believe that somehow the economy will recover after Kamala takes over. BTW, it wasn't just the economy that sank the Dem ship.

OK then please 'enlighten us' . Exactly how many billions has the Biden administration spent on DEI? Give us the figures. Next show us how many 'billions' the Biden administration has 'wasted' on cosseting illegal immigrants. You must have the figures because your so certain it's happening. So tell us all how much did they spent. Then you can explain how Trump won't be spending even more given on border protection issues since he also wants to complete his famous 'wall'. Illegal immigration has always been a problem for the US regardless of which party ran the White House and there has always been a budget to deal with. The only thing that changes?from one administration to the next? Is some tinkering around with the policy/budgeting details that don't change significantly change how much is spent on the big line items like enforcement and border control. Did Biden cut funding to Customs/Border Protection? Did he sack officers? If so show us the figures.

Next who mentioned Kamilla? Not me. I said the the future of the US economy economy was looking good because inflation was coming down (true) and unemployment was low (also true) it had nothing to do with who the next President was going to be. Trump or Kamala neither would change the immediate (positive) outlook for the US economy. Oh and while we're at it you can explain how according to you Biden deserves the 'blame' for the previous levels or high inflation experienced during his term in office (a problem I might add the entire world suffered from not just the US) but then apparently also (again according to you) doesn't seem to deserve the credit for the reduction in inflation or the current good employment figures the US is now experiencing? How exactly does that work?

The nasty economic truth you apparently seem unaware off? In economic terms inflation is what's called a lagging indicator the same as unemployment and other key economic metrics. That means inflation only shows up in an economy after the events that cause it have occurred. Ever heard of a little thing called COVID have you? (I know youv'e heard of the Ukraine war because you bitch about it so much.) Well as it turns out both COVID and the war in Ukraine are the two leading causes of the past 3 year (or so) spike in global inflation. Did Trump 'cause' the COVID to happen way back in 2019, is he responsible for it? Of course not. Did Biden 'cause' the war in Ukraine"? Again no. The sad truth is is regardless of the Administration on power oil shocks, wars, plagues and other key drivers of inflation 'happen' and almost always? These events catch the government of the day by surprise. By the time they actually start taking action to ameliorate whatever event caused inflationary pressure and put policies in place to counter it? It's too late!. Inflation has already entered the system and inevitably it takes time to work its way through. The ugly truth? As often as not the administration that has to deal with inflation is NOT the one that was in power when the events that caused the jump in inflation it actually occurred and most Administrations are powerless to prevent the most of the events that do cause it because, guess what, they're not frigging psychic! By the time they occur it's too late. (The whole lagging indicator thing again.) So sorry to tell you but no, just because inflation is looking like heading downwards on into 2025 that does NOT mean Trump gets to claim the credit for it. Inflation works its way though the system regardless of whose in charge.

Next 'little' thing? The war in Ukraine, DEI and and Immigration are fiscal minnows that have almost zero net impact on the US budget. The BIG ticket Items in order are 1) Social Security (aprox 21 %), 2) Defense (18%), 3) Health /Mediaid (15%), 4) Medicare (13%), 5) National Debt interest payments (14% ) That's more that 80% of the Federal budget blown on just 5 line items I could throw in Veterans Benefits (5%) as well but do I need to? So tell us exactly what % of the total Federal Budget did Biden 'waste' on DEI and Ukraine etc and explain how not spending that much was going to ever 'fix' the US budget deficit'?

Lastly. You can explain why tariffs (not just Trump's proposed tariffs but ALL tariffs) aren't inflationary as I stated they are. Or how reducing taxes on the rich are going to help repair the deficit? And just to finish? I never said it was 'just the economy that sank the Dem ship' I said it was one of the main reasons. That's not the same thing. For what it's worth (and you can go back and check my posts if you don't believe me) I've been broadly critical of the Democratic Party's handling of elections for years - for various reasons including it's choice of nominees going back as far as Clinton (H) and including Biden for all it matters.

[Gun Grape]

Every post after 667Medic's shows why the Democrats lost.

He brings up good points on why he voted for Trump. Trump talked about the things that were/are important to regular people.

All the Democrats had was "Protect Abortion". Would have been nice if Harris had talked about ways her administration were going to address Illegal Immigration.
Or discussed how we lead the world in oil production but prices keep rising because OPEC countries drop their production to keep prices higher and the other hurdle is refinery capacity.

Or that the price of eggs increased because of a ongoing Bird fly epidemic that required millions of egg laying chickens to be culled. And here is the plan to combat that.

But none of that was addressed. All she had was abortion. Oh' and we are either racist or misogynist if we don't support her.

Trump had rallies, Harris had concerts. And yes Trump had Hannity and Bongino ect. And none of the right wing talking points were challenged by Harris.

No response makes it a true statement But we did hear Harris say that she wouldn't change anything the Biden administration is doing.

People hear that Hurricane survivors in NC are being given $750 and then being denied other assistance. That private org. are doing the heavy lifting and support all the while the US Government is sending Billions to Ukraine.

Might have been nice for Harris to address that. No one knows how FEMA works till you have been in a natural disaster. Its working like its suppose to even though thats not the optics. FEMA contracts for those private companies to do the lifting. And if you have insurance, then the insurance company pays not the federal government.

Might have been wise for her to address this crazy crossdressing guys being able to participate in girls and womens sports. Or using female bathrooms.

Biden put transgendered things in the administration.And allowed them in the military. Trump has said that his incoming administration plans to get rid of them and deny federal funds to schools that support that and DEI.

Want to know where all those missing presidential votes went?
I was one of them. I changed parties from Republican to Democrat because of Trump.

I did not vote for Trump but I also could not vote for Harris. The rest of my ballot was a mix of Republicans and Dem.

I'm not Trump and women can get abortions isn't enough for me to give you my vote. Seems like there was lots of that this last election. And Democrats have only themselves to blame

[Ironduke]

Maybe people were convinced the economy was screwed up and all this inflation was caused by Ukraine aid and DEI. Maybe people were so convinced they voted for Trump because of it.

It's still bullshit, and I'm sure 667Medic knows it's bullshit.

[Gun Grape]

Maybe people were the economy was screwed up and all this inflation was caused by Ukraine aid and DEI. Maybe people were so convinced they voted for Trump because of it.

It's still bullshit, and I'm sure 667Medic knows it's bullshit.

Or maybe people voted for Trump/didn't vote for either because Harris didn't give them a reason to vote for her.

The only person that went on TV/Radio/podcast and made a good case for the Democrats was Pete Buttigieg. But he wasn't running

[Monash]

There's no sugar coating the fact the Dems have stumbled through a succession of terrible electoral performances recently. Hell, if the Republican candidate in 2020 had been anyone but Trump? They probably would have lost that year to. From candidates to policies to campaigning? IMO the best all they have managed these past few years is a C+. And if they can't do better than Biden in 2028 - they'll lose again. There's a lot of work for them to do over the next 4 years.

For now? It's popcorn time for me while I sit back and watch the next episode of the Trump show! And it probably won't even need canned laughter.

[Ironduke]

Or maybe people voted for Trump/didn't vote for either because Harris didn't give them a reason to vote for her.

The only person that went on TV/Radio/podcast and made a good case for the Democrats was Pete Buttigieg. But he wasn't running

Yeah, don't give a shit. I never was talking about this in the context about who won the election or why. The idea Ukraine aid/DEI triggered inflation or how much 667Medic has to pay for his fancy organic milk and eggs is just preposterous.

[tbm3fan]

I'm not Trump and women can get abortions isn't enough for me to give you my vote. Seems like there was lots of that this last election. And Democrats have only themselves to blame

I agree with that. Harris didn't really run a campaign as much as she ran rallies or revivals. Nonetheless I voted for her since I am too familiar with Trump going back to New York in the 70's and knew he was an asshole then.

[DOR]

Funny how splurging money on illegals, DEI, Ukraine and no accountability when it comes to any spending will not add to the deficit. They screwed the economy and then I am supposed to believe that somehow the economy will recover after Kamala takes over. BTW, it wasn't just the economy that sank the Dem ship.

When taken in the context of the federal budget, those items you mention are minor considerations.
In order to blow an additional $4.1 trillion -- the difference between Trump's deficits and those of Obama -- you have to take a chain saw to revenues.
Spending is far, far too slow to make that kind of a mess.
cbo.gov has all the data anyone would ever want to see.
(You do believe in data, don't you?)

[Monash]

And ...silence!

[rj1]

I read this a week or so after the election, it's entirely anecdotal, but I do think there's something to this although I can't prove it unless you had a statistic comparing household incomes to expenditures. The guy does live in the D.C. area which I imagine where this type of behavior would be exacerbated.

I basically don't understand how many people I know practically support the lifestyles they lead, given what's apparent on the surface re: their jobs, number of children, etc. Many seem to give the impression of having a ton of free time and being financially comfortable. Maybe they are. But it's unclear if they're simply in a lot of debt, if they have family money, or if they're full of sh*t. I sometimes wonder if we've reached an absolutely insane level of delusion in America, economically (not politically) speaking.

In summary, something doesn't add up.

"Family money" is a bit of it looking around me. You look at people in their 50s and 60s that are supporting their kids and their kids to some degree, although these people in their 50s and 60s would not be considered rich. There's people that buy everything under the sun with no regard to cost (a legacy of cheap debt and ZIRP). Looking it up online, after Q3 2024, the total credit card balance in the U.S. according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York was 1.166 trillion dollars. This is a record high, 8.1% higher than a year prior, and credit card balances increased $24 billion in Q3. The average balance per consumer is $6329, a 4.8% increased from the year prior. Outstanding auto loan debt is $1.64 trillion. Student loan debt is $1.61 trillion. Household debt is $17.90 trillion.

I kind of feel our country never really recovered from the Global Financial Crisis. How they got out of it was ZIRP, which systematically wrecked segments of the economy from how long it lasted ensuring that the rich would always outbid the less rich of society because they would always be able to get more access to debt due to their assets, and they could simply pile on taking on more debt because the interest was close to nothing. Not to mention our culture is highly consumption-based, so if you're not spending money, it makes you publicly appear less well off. I do think a lot of this helps explain partially the rise of Trump inside a historically pro-free trade party and why the Republicans and Democrats are now both for protectionism.

I don't know, could potentially be an explanation of why the Democrats' statements on the economy fell on deaf ears even if statistics said "hey, we're doing great".

[DOR]

Credit card debt:
Credit card delinquency data – the share of card holders in trouble -- go back to Q-1 1991. The average up to end-2019 was 3.95%; since then, 2.34%.
Fred.stlouisfed.org, search for the “DRCCLACBS” data series

Household debt service to disposable income ratio data goes back to Q-1 1980.
Average to end-2019: 12.02%. Since then, 10.63%.
Fred DTSP

What might be making households feel they are under greater financial pressure? I’d start with the amount spend on getting things delivered to the door, then add taxi services (e.g., uber), and maybe streaming services and tattoos.

Choices.

[rj1]

Credit card debt:
Credit card delinquency data – the share of card holders in trouble -- go back to Q-1 1991. The average up to end-2019 was 3.95%; since then, 2.34%.
Fred.stlouisfed.org, search for the “DRCCLACBS” data series

Household debt service to disposable income ratio data goes back to Q-1 1980.
Average to end-2019: 12.02%. Since then, 10.63%.
Fred DTSP

What might be making households feel they are under greater financial pressure? I’d start with the amount spend on getting things delivered to the door, then add taxi services (e.g., uber), and maybe streaming services and tattoos.

Choices.

Do people in cities smaller then medium large use Uber at a high degree? Streaming services is kind of a replacement for cable unless you go out and buy almost all of them.

This was not the U.S., it was Canada, and it was a few years ago, but a political show up there I listen to the NDP co-host was talking about some of these people in Ontario making these TikTok grievance videos crying about their finances that became a guilty pleasure of hers. And she went into her friends who while not making TikToks were saying some of the same things and stated about them "you can't be going out and getting a $15 latte every day".

Although let's be clear, any presidential candidate or political party stating "you need to consume less" would never have any chance of winning an election. I know I just have a job where I make 100 grand a year, I live in an area with a lower standard of living, I'm called cheap by relatives, and after paying the mortgage and other monthly expenses, taking care of the kids' futures via 529 plans and the like, money in the 401k for my future plans, the 2 family cars are paid off, it seems I end up just a little better than flat when I look at my savings. And I have a better living than most, so how do they all get ahead? I guess they don't do anything for their kids and shortchange their own futures probably, but there's no upward mobility there.

[DOR]

Do people in cities smaller then medium large use Uber at a high degree? Streaming services is kind of a replacement for cable unless you go out and buy almost all of them.

This was not the U.S., it was Canada, and it was a few years ago, but a political show up there I listen to the NDP co-host was talking about some of these people in Ontario making these TikTok grievance videos crying about their finances that became a guilty pleasure of hers. And she went into her friends who while not making TikToks were saying some of the same things and stated about them "you can't be going out and getting a $15 latte every day".

Although let's be clear, any presidential candidate or political party stating "you need to consume less" would never have any chance of winning an election. I know I just have a job where I make 100 grand a year, I live in an area with a lower standard of living, I'm called cheap by relatives, and after paying the mortgage and other monthly expenses, taking care of the kids' futures via 529 plans and the like, money in the 401k for my future plans, the 2 family cars are paid off, it seems I end up just a little better than flat when I look at my savings. And I have a better living than most, so how do they all get ahead? I guess they don't do anything for their kids and shortchange their own futures probably, but there's no upward mobility there.

No, people in smaller cities probably don't use uber as much as people in larger ones. Neither do people on small islands, or on top of mountains. Statistics and concepts like "most" deliberately focus on larger groups.

Was there a reason for bringing a small minority into a national-level discussion?

[rj1]

No, people in smaller cities probably don't use uber as much as people in larger ones. Neither do people on small islands, or on top of mountains. Statistics and concepts like "most" deliberately focus on larger groups.

Was there a reason for bringing a small minority into a national-level discussion?

Fine, continue being an asshole.

[DOR]

fine, continue being an asshole.

wtf?