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The 2021 Impeachment, Trial and Acquittal of Donald John Trump

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  • the impeachment process isn't a part of the "justice" system. it's a political process masked as a judicial one.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    • Originally posted by astralis View Post
      the impeachment process isn't a part of the "justice" system. it's a political process masked as a judicial one.
      Oh I agree. I'm just saying that truth isn't a product of 'justice'. Trump supporters are parroting the acquittal as justice and proof that Trump never incited the attack and the whole impeachment was just another witch hunt by the Trump obsessed Democrats and Never Trumpers.

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      • frankly it's pretty clear now that McConnell set everything up so he could personally acquit on a technicality -- a technicality which HE CREATED.

        that way he didn't have to do the hard work of whipping, and the even harder work of facing the wrath of the Trump base.

        it's why McConnell talked about throwing the responsibilities over to the -judicial- system rather than the impeachment one.

        dereliction of duty, but what else is new for him?

        frankly, if the Dems couldn't whip up 10 Senate GOP votes for something this blatant, then they'll never find 10 Senate GOP votes for anything that isn't an abject surrender to Mitch McConnell's wishes.

        nuclear option now.

        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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        • Originally posted by astralis View Post

          nuclear option now.
          They can't do that without Manchin and Sinema.

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          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
            Senate reaches deal to skip witnesses

            Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer announced Saturday that a deal has been reached to skip witnesses in the impeachment trial of former President Trump, not long after a vote to call witnesses threw the Senate into chaos.A statement from Congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler that led to the call for witnesses was read into the record rather than calling her to testify.

            The 55-45 vote for witnesses included four Republicans who could vote to convict Mr. Trump: Senators Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney and Ben Sasse.And a fifth senator's position came as a surprise. Senator Lindsey Graham, a close Trump ally, changedhis vote from "nay" to "yea" because he wanted the defense to call witnesses.

            The former president is facing a charge of incitement of insurrection over the deadly assault by pro-Trump rioters on the U.S. Capitol on January 6.

            Democratic House impeachment manager Jamie Raskin had said Saturday that Herrera Beutler should be called to testify.

            Herrera Beutler came forward on Friday night and recalled that House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy told her about a phone call with Mr. Trump. According to Herrera Beutler, McCarthy told her that when he spoke to Mr. Trump that day and asked him to "publicly and forcefully" call off the Capitol assault, "the president initially repeated the falsehood that it was antifa that had breached the Capitol."

            "McCarthy refuted that and told the president that these were Trump supporters," Beutler's statement said. "That's when, according to McCarthy, the president said: 'Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are.'"

            A Senate staffer said Saturday morning that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said in an email to GOP colleagues he'll vote to acquit Mr. Trump, according to a Senate staffer who was read the email by a Republican senator.

            McConnell cited constitutional grounds for his reasoning. McConnell voted that the trial was unconstitutional before it began.
            __________

            Un-fucking-believable....

            I don't care if I sound like a broken record, the Democrats could fuck up a wet dream
            Disagree Joe. Witnesses wouldn't have gotten to conviction.

            It would have caused a dragging out of the Biden appointments. Biden needs Garland approved ASAP to make sure the 6 JAN traitors are properly prosecuted and to rebuild the organizational ethos that was destroyed by Barr & Sessions.

            Keep in mind so much of the federal bureaucracy was acting under 45. That has to be rebuilt. And serious recruitment has to go on at other agencies.

            And as Eric says Biden has about 16 months to get viable for 2022...and redistricting is coming before then.

            Better to just move on...the jury was fixed on 6 JAN. There was only going to be movement of 1 or 2.
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

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            • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
              They can't do that without Manchin and Sinema.
              Time to get realpolitik....what do Manchin & Sinema need to get them to yes.

              Manchin is in a tough spot....he is about the ONLY Democrat who can get elected statewide in WV. He needs to be Robert Byrd-like in bringing home the bacon to ensure his seat. The governor, Jim Justice, blows politically with the wind. And he has capital with a very successful roll out of the vaccine...only Alaska had a better rollout. Manchin needs to work with Justice and get what the state wants from DC...and Manchin can deliver.
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

              Comment


              • Time to get realpolitik....what do Manchin & Sinema need to get them to yes.

                Manchin is in a tough spot....he is about the ONLY Democrat who can get elected statewide in WV. He needs to be Robert Byrd-like in bringing home the bacon to ensure his seat. The governor, Jim Justice, blows politically with the wind. And he has capital with a very successful roll out of the vaccine...only Alaska had a better rollout. Manchin needs to work with Justice and get what the state wants from DC...and Manchin can deliver.
                yeah, I have no idea why both Manchin and Sinema are so hard up on the filibuster.

                I know they love the situation where Dems are coming to them, groveling on both feet, but don't they recognize that with the filibuster gone, there's a -lot- more of those opportunities where they write what they want on the check?

                drives me nuts, that and Cal Cunningham not being able to keep it in his goddam pants for an election.
                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

                  Disagree Joe. Witnesses wouldn't have gotten to conviction.

                  It would have caused a dragging out of the Biden appointments. Biden needs Garland approved ASAP to make sure the 6 JAN traitors are properly prosecuted and to rebuild the organizational ethos that was destroyed by Barr & Sessions.

                  Keep in mind so much of the federal bureaucracy was acting under 45. That has to be rebuilt. And serious recruitment has to go on at other agencies.

                  And as Eric says Biden has about 16 months to get viable for 2022...and redistricting is coming before then.

                  Better to just move on...the jury was fixed on 6 JAN. There was only going to be movement of 1 or 2.
                  Nothing would've gotten to conviction. I wanted witnesses on the record. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't relieved that it's over sooner rather than later.
                  Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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                  • Originally posted by astralis View Post

                    yeah, I have no idea why both Manchin and Sinema are so hard up on the filibuster.
                    Filibuster is how their states stay relevant...at least for WV.
                    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                    Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • I gotta know.
                      Was there a Committee to Re-Acquit the President?
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

                      Comment


                      • Filibuster is how their states stay relevant...at least for WV.
                        hmm...with filibuster, there's only a limited number of items that Dems will come begging to Manchin for: reconciliation, more liberal appointees, etc. the rest simply cannot pass with or without Manchin's support.

                        without the filibuster, assuming the GOP is whipped into discipline by McConnell, Manchin would get the begging every single time there's a bill.

                        just thinking out loud here, maybe it's just as simple as Manchin thinking he's guaranteed one/two "carte blanche" asks with reconciliation every year, vs an unknown amount without the filibuster.

                        maybe he's afraid of Schumer being able to snipe off a few Republicans without the filibuster? Romney, Collins, Murkowski would suddenly also get star treatment in that case, and I guess he doesn't like sharing. ugh.

                        if that's the case, it's stupid because the midterms will come up soon, and I doubt the current balance of power will remain the same, one way or another.
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by astralis View Post

                          if that's the case, it's stupid because the midterms will come up soon, and I doubt the current balance of power will remain the same, one way or another.
                          Should be interesting results. We have Republican leadership trying to move away from Trump while Trump and his base move away from leadership. Sounds like internecine warfare will likely break out in the Republican Party over the next four years. If I were a betting man I would say the odds for that are better than the odds against. Given that the odds for Democrats would be favorable or as Lt. Holden said "In confusion, there is profit."

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                          • tbm,

                            We have Republican leadership trying to move away from Trump while Trump and his base move away from leadership. Sounds like internecine warfare will likely break out in the Republican Party over the next four years.
                            I certainly hope so, but I doubt it. Reaganism is clapped out and not where the GOP base is; this was clear all the way back in 2012, with Mitt Romney just barely being tolerated as standard-bearer.

                            Mitch McConnell didn't dare directly confront a defeated Trump -- didn't bother trying to whip the votes.

                            same thing with all of the politically expedient folks; Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz have the backbones of eclairs, but are also political survivors as a result -- so it's instructive to see where they see the future of the GOP.

                            100% Trumpism, which is why Lindsey Graham is now shilling for Lara Trump for Florida Senator.

                            OTOH, without Trump on their ticket in 2022, the GOP will probably not have a very good time of it.
                            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                            Comment


                            • They also can’t afford, however likely or unlikely, for Trump to launch a third party. Losing Georgia and Arizona again would be the least of their worries in that scenario.

                              Until she spoke out against Trump, I actually thought Nikki Haley was a forsure and would be a huge problem for Dems in 2024 as she could win back the suburban vote. Not sure about her now though.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                tbm,



                                I certainly hope so, but I doubt it. Reaganism is clapped out and not where the GOP base is; this was clear all the way back in 2012, with Mitt Romney just barely being tolerated as standard-bearer.

                                Mitch McConnell didn't dare directly confront a defeated Trump -- didn't bother trying to whip the votes.

                                same thing with all of the politically expedient folks; Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz have the backbones of eclairs, but are also political survivors as a result -- so it's instructive to see where they see the future of the GOP.

                                100% Trumpism, which is why Lindsey Graham is now shilling for Lara Trump for Florida Senator.

                                OTOH, without Trump on their ticket in 2022, the GOP will probably not have a very good time of it.
                                Well it looks like things are starting to heat up some as Trump has just attacked McConnell and family for what he said after the trial. Divorce might be imminent as the battle is joined now for control...

                                "Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again," Trump said in the statement. "He will never do what needs to be done, or what is right for our Country. Where necessary and appropriate, I will back primary rivals who espouse Making America Great Again and our policy of America First. We want brilliant, strong, thoughtful, and compassionate leadership."
                                Have to admit I did a double take because those qualities of thoughtful and compassionate are qualities Trump is totally unfamiliar with.
                                Last edited by tbm3fan; 17 Feb 21,, 05:08.

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