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2021 Trump-Incited Insurrection at Capitol Building

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  • #91
    Trump’s New Criminal Problem
    The president could face charges for inciting the Capitol riot—and maybe even for inciting the murder of a Capitol Police Officer.

    The world watched in horror Wednesday as a violent insurrectionist mob attacked the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to obstruct the democratic process of certifying the vote for president. Five Americans died in the attack, including Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick. If the federal investigation into the deaths determines that those responsible were incited to violence at the Save America rally that occurred just hours before, President Donald Trump could face criminal charges, even if he didn’t storm the Capitol himself.

    The federal criminal code (18 USC 373) makes it a crime to solicit, command, induce or “endeavor to persuade” another person to commit a felony that includes the threat or use of physical force. Simply put, it is a crime to persuade another person, or a mob of several thousand, to commit a violent felony.

    From the early results of the investigation, we know that several insurrectionists already have been charged with felonies. However, the crime posing the biggest problem for the president could be having solicited the mob into a seditious conspiracy. The federal criminal code makes it a crime for “two or more persons … to oppose by force the authority [of the United States] or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States” (18 USC 2384). That felony, including the use of force, clearly was committed by the mob after being encouraged by the president.

    In mid-December, Trump tweeted, “Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election. Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!” At the Save America rally, Trump exhorted his supporters to “stop the steal,” shortly before they launched their attack. He commanded the crowd, “Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong.” He made it clear: “If they do the wrong thing, we should never, ever forget that they did. Never forget.” Near the end of his address, Trump went on to remind his supporters, “The radical left knows exactly what they were doing. They are ruthless and it’s time that somebody did something about it.”

    Then, the president closed his nearly 11,000-word performance saying, “So we are going to—we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give—the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try—give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re try—going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.”

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has announced that Democrats are moving forward with trying to remove President Donald Trump from office.

    As a person with good lawyers and experience being investigated, Trump would undoubtedly claim these comments were nothing more than First-Amendment-protected political speech if he were charged with encouraging the mob to commit seditious conspiracy. But that might not help. In 1969, the U.S. Supreme Court, in Brandenberg v Ohio, found that the government can punish inflammatory speech when it is “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.”

    Trump passes the test. As his statements make clear, he brought the members of the mob to D.C. He convened them at a rally; he and others inflamed the audience with lies about a stolen election and their duty to save the country from the certification that was underway at that moment. He pointed them at the Capitol and persuaded them to “do something about it.” He offered to go with them. He had every reason to believe his rhetoric would lead to violence in the same way it did at his rally on December 12.

    Trump could also have a bigger problem. If the federal murder probe into Officer Sicknick’s death determines that those responsible were incited to violence at the Save America rally just hours before, Trump could find himself charged with inciting a murder. Proving the president intended to incite the crowd to commit murder would be a long shot bordering on impossible. But the mere fact that we are discussing this remote possibility is a sad statement about the state of this presidency.


    The Department of Justice, the FBI and the Capitol Police are conducting a broad and thorough investigation. The facts uncovered in that investigation—not politics, fear or favor—will determine who is prosecuted. While there is little question that Trump’s words at the rally, and those of others (Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump, Jr.), incited the crowd to what the Brandenburg court called “imminent disorder,” we will have to wait on the prosecutors to assess the merits of any possible cases.

    In the meantime, the images of that disorder erupting in an excruciating torrent of violence against the foundation of American democracy will repeat on an endless loop in our memories. If our democracy is to recover from that assault, all those responsible should be held accountable.
    ____________
    Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      I got that intel from this site
      Thanks

      I thought it was the House.
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        In fact, did you see any rioters carrying a firearm in the Capital?
        Sir, as open carry in the District of Columbia is illegal, any firearms carried into the Capitol Building would've been concealed.

        Indeed, at least one person was carrying a firearm inside the building:

        As Christopher Alberts of Maryland was arrested leaving the Capitol wearing a bulletproof vest, officers found a 9mm handgun with two high-capacity magazines. The arrest affidavit said he told officers it was for own personal protection and not to harm anyone.

        Then there was this animal:

        Others had material nearby for making bombs. Investigating the explosives found at the nearby Republican and Democratic headquarters, canine units discovered a truck Lonnie Coffman had driven from Alabama. A search of his truck bed revealed an M4 carbine rifle with loaded magazines, 11 Mason jars filled with liquid and topped with a golf tee, cloth rags and lighters, all the makings for Molotov cocktails.

        When Coffman returned to his truck with a .22-caliber handgun in his pocket, U.S. Capitol Police special agent Lawrence Anyaso wrote in the arrest affidavit, he told officers the jars were filled with melted styrofoam and gasoline, a combination one officer said causes flammable liquids to stick when detonated, having the same effect as napalm.


        Other, more vague reports say:

        Some protesters wore bulletproof vests or other military-style gear, patches and tattoos, including insignia for extremist, far-right militia groups. Some carried loaded handguns and extra ammunition.

        And of course their stated aims:

        Reuters photographer Jim Bourg tweeted that he heard the rioters "say that they hoped to find Vice President Mike Pence and execute him by hanging him from a Capitol Hill tree as a traitor. ... It was a common line being repeated. Many more were just talking about how the VP should be executed."

        Cleveland Grover Meredith was charged with threatening Pelosi after driving to D.C. from Colorado. He missed the riot after experiencing troubles with his truck and trailer, according to an arrest complaint written by FBI Special Agent Donald Mockenhaupt. Meredith arrived Thursday and was later arrested at a Holiday Inn.

        Officers found a Glock 19, a 9mm pistol, a Tavor X95 rifle and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in his truck and trailer.

        In the complaint, Mockenhaupt wrote Meredith had texted a relative saying he was “thinking about heading over to Pelosi's (expletive) speech and putting a bullet in her noggin on Live TV,” with a purple devil emoji.

        In a later text conversation about Pelosi, the complaint said, Meredith wrote, “Dead Bitch Walking. I predict that within 12 days, many in our country will die.”

        But he added, "LOL, jus havin fun."



        Sir, they weren't there for a brawl. They were out for blood.

        Link



        Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by JRT View Post
          In the picture below, to me that does look like a pistol on the hip of the insurgent in the tacti-cool costume carrying a fist-full of nylon ziptie handcuffs.
          Could also be a taser. In fact, one dead rioter was the result of tasering himself.

          Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
          Thanks

          I thought it was the House.
          I'm sure I've seen photos of House Officers with weapons readied.

          Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
          Sir, they weren't there for a brawl. They were out for blood.
          Then they're the dumbest bunch of blood seekers on the planet. Going up against cops with weapons already hot (both the House and the Senate) and police barricades that can become instant firing lines while your weapons are 100s of feet away.

          Again, the cops outgun the rioters 200 to 1. Not a single one had their weapons readied against such odds.

          More than that, they're a bunch of chicken shits, stopping when confronted by 5 cops with their own weapons holstered when they could have swarmed them, firearms or not.

          Given what I've seen. The only reason why a police fire line would break a sweat in wrecking these fucks would be that firearms would become too hot from expending that much munitions.

          If these fucks really wanted a bloodbath, they would have gotten one - their own blood running the streets.

          Everything I've seen says there was absolutely zero ways for these fucks to win once the police forms a fire line. The talk about the insurrectionists making this much worst is pure horse puckey.
          Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 11 Jan 21,, 19:23.
          Chimo

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
            Here in the US and the Jim Crow Era...the symbolism has a very specific meaning.
            There's also symbolism in it over here, albeit a different one: Germany has in the last 200 years designated methods of capital punishment for specific crimes.

            Decapitation was the default method for criminals, applied by guillotine or axe. Shooting was reserved for soldiers, and only applies to insubordination or defection in the face of the enemy.

            Hanging was reserved for traitors, and was considered only apt for this crime considerably earlier too.

            It does somewhat come back to Jim Crow though - most people who were hanged in Germany were lynched late in World War II by nazis without ever seeing a judge. As in, in early '45 there was barely any village left that didn't have a someone hanged from a lamppost or tree. And that's also the direct,open connotation for when you see a gallow at right-wing protests here, unlike that one from the climate change protest.

            Last edited by kato; 11 Jan 21,, 19:35.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              Then they're the dumbest bunch of blood seekers on the planet. Going up against cops with weapons already hot (both the House and the Senate) and police barricades that can become instant firing lines while your weapons are 100s of feet away.
              Sir, I'm certainly not going to argue in favor of their Intelligence or Planning. We're talking about Motive, Opportunity and Capability. These people were sufficiently motivated, sufficiently armed and had sufficient opportunity to cause far more mayhem.

              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              The talk about the insurrectionists making this much worst is pure horse puckey.
              I respectfully disagree.
              Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                Could also be a taser. In fact, one dead rioter was the result of tasering himself.

                I'm sure I've seen photos of House Officers with weapons readied.

                Then they're the dumbest bunch of blood seekers on the planet. Going up against cops with weapons already hot (both the House and the Senate) and police barricades that can become instant firing lines while your weapons are 100s of feet away.

                Again, the cops outgun the rioters 200 to 1. Not a single one had their weapons readied against such odds.

                More than that, they're a bunch of chicken shits, stopping when confronted by 5 cops with their own weapons holstered when they could have swarmed them, firearms or not.

                Given what I've seen. The only reason why a police fire line would break a sweat in wrecking these fucks would be that firearms would become too hot from expending that much munitions.

                If these fucks really wanted a bloodbath, they would have gotten one - their own blood running the streets.

                Everything I've seen says there was absolutely zero ways for these fucks to win once the police forms a fire line. The talk about the insurrectionists making this much worst is pure horse puckey.
                COlonel,

                The USCP were specifically ordered to hold their fire.

                This is what allowed the crowd to get in the building in the first place.

                Plain clothes in the Chambers had authority to fire which resulted in the one dead terrorist.

                The hold fire was still in place all through the day. When the police started clearing they still held fire.

                I have watched reports where the USCP officers believed many of the terrorists where armed and they did not want a firefight to ensue in the Capitol.
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                  I respectfully disagree.
                  You seriously think the rioters have a chance in hell once the police starts shooting? I'm stating outright the police have more than ample firepower to stop the rioters cold and it is blatant stupidity to ignore that bit of reality on their part.

                  Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                  The USCP were specifically ordered to hold their fire.
                  Precisely

                  Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                  This is what allowed the crowd to get in the building in the first place.

                  Plain clothes in the Chambers had authority to fire which resulted in the one dead terrorist.

                  The hold fire was still in place all through the day. When the police started clearing they still held fire.
                  That is because both sides held fire. I cannot think of one scenario in which the police would still be holding fire once bodily harm is being threatened on an elected official. And God help the rioters if a bomb, any bomb, goes off. Everyone would be assumed to be a suicide bomber. Once weapons hot, I cannot see how the rioters could do anything but bleed.

                  Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                  I have watched reports where the USCP officers believed many of the terrorists where armed and they did not want a firefight to ensue in the Capitol.
                  Here's the kicker. The fucks didn't want a firefight either and that was the only snowball's chance between Celine's thighs that they had to get what they wanted.
                  Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 11 Jan 21,, 20:25.
                  Chimo

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    USCP was screwed from the start....

                    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...6d6_story.html


                    Outgoing Capitol Police chief: House, Senate security officials hamstrung efforts to call in National Guard

                    Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund testifies before House lawmakers in July 2019. (Congressional Quarterly/CQ Roll Call/AP)

                    Jan. 10, 2021 at 11:38 p.m. ESTTwo days before Congress was set to formalize President-elect Joe Biden’s victory, Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund was growing increasingly worried about the size of the pro-Trump crowds expected to stream into Washington in protest.

                    To be on the safe side, Sund asked House and Senate security officials for permission to request that the D.C. National Guard be placed on standby in case he needed quick backup.
                    But, Sund said Sunday, they turned him down.

                    In his first interview since pro-Trump rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol last week, Sund, who has since resigned his post, said his supervisors were reluctant to take formal steps to put the Guard on call even as police intelligence suggested that the crowd President Trump had invited to Washington to protest his defeat probably would be much larger than earlier demonstrations.


                    House Sergeant at Arms Paul Irving said he wasn’t comfortable with the “optics” of formally declaring an emergency ahead of the demonstration, Sund said. Meanwhile, Senate Sergeant at Arms Michael Stenger suggested that Sund should informally seek out his Guard contacts, asking them to “lean forward” and be on alert in case Capitol Police needed their help.

                    Inside the Capitol siege: How barricaded lawmakers and aides sounded urgent pleas for help as police lost control

                    Irving could not be reached for comment. A cellphone number listed in his name has not accepted messages since Wednesday. Messages left at a residence he owns in Nevada were not immediately returned, and there was no answer Sunday evening at a Watergate apartment listed in his name. A neighbor said he had recently moved out.

                    Stenger declined Sunday to comment when a reporter visited his Virginia home. “I really don’t want to talk about it,” he said.



                    It was the first of six times Sund’s request for help was rejected or delayed, he said. Two days later on Wednesday afternoon, his forces already in the midst of crisis, Sund said he pleaded for help five more times as a scene far more dire than he had ever imagined unfolded on the historic Capitol grounds.

                    An army of 8,000 pro-Trump demonstrators streamed down Pennsylvania Avenue after hearing Trump speak near the White House. Sund’s outer perimeter on the Capitol’s west side was breached within 15 minutes. With 1,400 Capitol Police officers on duty, his forces were quickly overrun.

                    “If we would have had the National Guard we could have held them at bay longer, until more officers from our partner agencies could arrive,” he said.
                    Capitol Police were unable to stop a breach of the Capitol. Washington Post reporter Carol Leonnig and a former Senate Sergeant at Arms describe the events. (The Washington Post)
                    Just before 2 p.m., the pro-Trump mob entered the Capitol, sending lawmakers and staff scrambling for safety. D.C. police had quickly dispatched hundreds of officers to the scene. But it wasn’t enough. At 2:26 p.m., Sund said, he joined a conference call to the Pentagon to plead for additional backup.


                    “I am making an urgent, urgent immediate request for National Guard assistance,” Sund recalled saying. “I have got to get boots on the ground.”

                    On the call were several officials from the D.C. government, as well as officials from the Pentagon, including Lt. Gen. Walter E. Piatt, director of the Army Staff. The D.C. contingent was flabbergasted to hear Piatt say that he could not recommend that his boss, Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy, approve the request.

                    “I don’t like the visual of the National Guard standing a police line with the Capitol in the background,” Piatt said, according to Sund and others on the call.

                    Again and again, Sund said, “The situation is dire,” recalled John Falcicchio, the chief of staff for D.C. Mayor Muriel E. Bowser. “Literally, this guy is on the phone, I mean, crying out for help. It’s burned in my memories.”


                    Pentagon officials have emphasized that the Capitol Police did not ask for D.C. Guard backup ahead of the event or request to put a riot contingency plan in place with guardsmen at the ready, and then made an urgent request as rioters were about to breach the building, even though the Guard isn’t set up to be a quick-reaction force like the police.

                    “We rely on Capitol Police and federal law enforcement to provide an assessment of the situation,” Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said during a news conference last week. “And based on that assessment that they had, they believed they had sufficient personnel and did not make a request.”

                    Despite Sund’s pleas, the first National Guard personnel didn’t arrive at the Capitol until 5:40 p.m. — after four people had died and the worst was long over.


                    Sund, 55, offered his resignation the next day, telling friends he felt he had let his officers down. Many lawmakers, infuriated by the breach and angry that they had been unable to reach Sund at the height of the crisis, were only too happy to accept it.

                    Under pressure from lawmakers, Stenger and Irving also resigned.

                    In a wide-ranging interview, Sund sought to defend his officers, who, he said, had fought valiantly. And with threats of violence looming ahead of Biden’s Jan. 20 inauguration, he said he remains worried.

                    “My concern is if they don’t get their act together with physical security, it’s going to happen again,” he said.

                    As he prepared for last week’s demonstrations, Sund drew on decades of experience. Hired as chief in 2019, two years after joining the Capitol Police, he worked for 23 years on the D.C. police force, leaving as commander of the Special Operations Division. Widely respected in the District and among leaders of U.S. Secret Service and Park Police, he had helped to run 12 national security events, including Barack Obama’s 2013inauguration. He also served as incident commander during the 2013 Navy Yard shooting.


                    Last Monday, Sund said, he began to worry about the Jan. 6 demonstration.

                    “We knew it would be bigger,” Sund said. “We looked at the intelligence. We knew we would have large crowds, the potential for some violent altercations. I had nothing indicating we would have a large mob seize the Capitol.”

                    Sure, there were claims that alt-right instigators had discussed storming the building and targeting lawmakers. But Sund said such threats had surfaced in the past.

                    “You might see rhetoric on social media. We had seen that many times before,” he said. “People say a lot of things online.”

                    Still, he decided to call Irving and Stenger to ask for permission to request that the National Guard be put on emergency standby. Irving didn’t like the idea, Sund said; he said it would look bad because it would communicate that they presumed an emergency. He said he’d have to ask House leaders.


                    On the way home that evening, Sund did as Stenger suggested, calling Maj. Gen. William J. Walker, the head of the 1,000-member D.C. National Guard, to tell him that he might call on him for help. “If we can get you leaning forward,” Sund said, “how long do you think it would take to get us assistance?”

                    Walker said he thought he could send 125 personnel fairly quickly. Over the weekend, Sund had also conferred with D.C. Police Chief Robert J. Contee III, who also had offered to lend a hand if trouble arose.

                    On Tuesday, Sund said he briefed Irving and Stenger, who said that backup seemed sufficient.

                    Just before noon Wednesday, Sund was monitoring Trump’s speech to the crowd on the Ellipse when he was called away. There were reports of two pipe bombs near the Capitol grounds. So Sund didn’t hear the president call on protesters to “fight” against lawmakers preparing to confirm Biden’s victory. Nor did he hear Trump’s personal attorney, Rudolph W. Giuliani, urging the crowd to engage in “trial by combat,” an eerie reference to battles to the death in the series, “Game of Thrones.” Sund said he now suspects that the pipe bombs were an intentional effort to draw officers away from the Capitol perimeter.


                    The first wave of protesters arrived at the Capitol about 12:40 p.m.

                    “As soon as they hit the fence line, the fight was on,” Sund said. “Violent confrontations from the start. They came with riot helmets, gas masks, shields, pepper spray, fireworks, climbing gear — climbing gear! — explosives, metal pipes, baseball bats. I have never seen anything like it in 30 years of events in Washington.”

                    Using video footage from the Capitol and radio transmissions from his incident commanders, Sund could see his officers trying to hold the line. But the rioters immediately yanked the barricade fence out of the way and threw it at his officers’ heads.

                    “I realized at 1 p.m., things aren’t going well,” he said. “I’m watching my people getting slammed.”

                    Sund immediately called Contee, who sent 100 officers to the scene, with some arriving within 10 minutes. But at 1:09 p.m., Sund said he called Irving and Stenger, telling them it was time to call in the Guard. He wanted an emergency declaration. Both men said they would “run it up the chain” and get back to him, he said.

                    Minutes later, aides to the top congressional leaders were called to Stenger’s office for an update on the situation — and were infuriated to learn that the sergeants at arms had not yet called in the National Guard or any other reinforcements, as was their responsibility to do without seeking approval from leaders.

                    “What do you mean that there’s no National Guard, that there’s no reinforcements coming?” aides demanded to know. “Why haven’t you ordered them, why aren’t they already here?”

                    Sund said he called Irving twice more and Stenger once to check on their progress. At 1:50 p.m. — nine minutes before the Capitol was breached — Sund said he was losing patience. He called Walker to tell him to get ready to bring the Guard. Irving called back with formal approval at 2:10 p.m. By then, plainclothes Capitol Police agents were barricading the door to the Speaker’s Lobby just off the House chamber to keep the marauders from charging in.

                    Sund finally had approval to call the National Guard. But that would prove to be just the beginning of a bureaucratic nightmare to get soldiers on the scene.

                    At 2:26 p.m., Sund joined a conference call organized by D.C’s homeland security director, Chris Rodriguez. Among those on the screen were the District’s police chief, mayor and Walker.

                    Unlike anywhere else in the country, the D.C. Guard does not report to a governor, but to the president, so Walker patched in the office of the Secretary of the Army, noting that he would need authorization from the Pentagon to order soldiers to the Capitol.

                    Piatt noted the Pentagon still needed authorization from Capitol Police to step foot on Capitol grounds. Sund ticked through details on the severity of the breach, but the call got noisy with crosstalk as officials asked more questions.

                    Contee sought to quiet the din. “Wait, wait,” he said, and then directed attention to Sund. “Steve, are you requesting National Guard assistance at the Capitol?”

                    Sund said he replied: “I am making urgent, urgent, immediate request for National Guard assistance.”

                    But Piatt, dialed in from across the river at the Pentagon, pushed back, according to Sund, saying he would prefer to have Guard soldiers take up posts around Washington, relieving D.C. police, so that they could respond to the Capitol instead of guardsmen. Sund’s account is supported by four D.C. officials on the call, including Bowser.

                    Bowser told The Washington Post that Sund had “made it perfectly clear that they needed extraordinary help, including the National Guard. There was some concern from the Army of what it would look like to have armed military personnel on the grounds of the Capitol.”

                    Falcicchio said that once Contee confirmed that Sund wanted the National Guard, D.C. officials echoed his request.

                    “Contee was definitely — I hate to use this term, but there’s no other term for it. He was pleading,” Falcicchio said. “He was pleading with them to fulfill the request that Capitol Police was making.”

                    But the entire discussion was in vain. Only McCarthy, the secretary, could order the Guard deployed — and only with the approval of the Pentagon chief. McCarthy has since said that, at the time of the call, he was busy taking the requests to activate more Guard to acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller.

                    At one point, according to a defense official, Contee said, “Let me be clear, are you denying this?” To which Piatt responded that he wasn’t denying the request; he simply didn’t have the authority to approve it.

                    “It was clear that it was a dire situation,” the defense official said. “He didn’t want to commit to anything without getting approval.”

                    At 3:45 p.m., Stenger told Sund that he would ask his boss, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), for help getting the National Guard authorized more quickly. Sund never learned the result. More of Contee’s officers had arrived and were helping remove rioters from the grounds. Capitol Police worked with other federal authorities, including the Secret Service, the Park Police and the FBI, to secure lawmakers, eject rioters and sweep the building so lawmakers could return to finish counting the electoral college votes that would allow them to formally recognize Biden’s victory later that night.

                    According to a timeline the Defense Department published Friday, Miller verbally authorized the activation of the entire D.C. Guard at 3:04 p.m. It would take two more hours for most of the citizen soldiers to leave their jobs and homes, and pick up gear from the D.C. Armory.

                    Sund, who was officially replaced as chief Friday, said he is left feeling that America’s bastions of democracy need far more security. He said the violent crowd that mobbed the Capitol was unlike anything he has ever seen.

                    “They were extremely dangerous and they were extremely prepared. I have a hard time calling this a demonstration,” he said.

                    “I’m a firm supporter of First Amendment. This was none of that,” he added. “This was criminal riotous activity.”

                    Sund blamed Trump for putting his officers at risk, saying “the crowd left that rally and had been incited by some of the words the president said.” Sund said he fears what may come next.

                    On Sunday, the Capitol’s rolling green lawn was ringed by high black fencing and patrolled by personnel in green camouflage keeping the public at bay.

                    “This is the people’s house. Congress members have always prided themselves on having an open campus,” Sund said. But now, “I’m not sure that will continue to be defensible.”
                    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________--

                    I can't wait for the hearings on this whole sordid affair.
                    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                    Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      You seriously think the rioters have a chance in hell once the police starts shooting? I'm stating outright the police have more than ample firepower to stop the rioters cold and it is blatant stupidity to ignore that bit of reality on their part.
                      No Sir, I don't think they had a chance in hell, but again, that's not what we're talking about. They could have made things much worse, period.
                      Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                        They could have made things much worse, period.
                        That is based on the assumption that the police would be still holding their fire. For the life of me, I cannot think of one scenario that would remain true had things escalated. I remind you that there were fireteams in the House and Senate with weapons hot. They will not and did not hold fire.
                        Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 11 Jan 21,, 20:43.
                        Chimo

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          Could also be a taser. In fact, one dead rioter was the result of tasering himself.

                          I'm sure I've seen photos of House Officers with weapons readied.

                          Then they're the dumbest bunch of blood seekers on the planet. Going up against cops with weapons already hot (both the House and the Senate) and police barricades that can become instant firing lines while your weapons are 100s of feet away.

                          Again, the cops outgun the rioters 200 to 1. Not a single one had their weapons readied against such odds.

                          More than that, they're a bunch of chicken shits, stopping when confronted by 5 cops with their own weapons holstered when they could have swarmed them, firearms or not.

                          Given what I've seen. The only reason why a police fire line would break a sweat in wrecking these fucks would be that firearms would become too hot from expending that much munitions.

                          If these fucks really wanted a bloodbath, they would have gotten one - their own blood running the streets.

                          Everything I've seen says there was absolutely zero ways for these fucks to win once the police forms a fire line. The talk about the insurrectionists making this much worst is pure horse puckey.

                          @JoshMargolin
                          New:
                          @FBI
                          now reports in a bulletin "Armed protests are being planned at all 50 state capitols from 16 January through at least 20 January, and at the US Capitol from 17 January through 20 January,”
                          @AaronKatersky
                          reports.

                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          We'll find out in a week and a half if they want to make this much worse.

                          Comment


                          • That is based on the assumption that the police would be still holding their fire. For the life of me, I cannot think of one scenario that would remain true had things escalated. I remind you that there were fireteams in the House and Senate with weapons hot. They will not and did not hold fire.
                            Had a bloodbath resulted-- even if all the casualties were terrorist fucks whom richly deserved 2 to the chest, 1 in the head -- that would probably count as "much worse". a bunch of martyrs for the QAnon set, just great.

                            that stupid bint (whom was former USAF security forces, BTW) whom caught a bullet is now a veritable avenging martyr on crazy right wing Internet.

                            who knows if 6 police officers would have been sufficient to secure all the Senators?

                            there's been a number of arrests based on firearms possession, but Capitol Police/FBI have been rightly pretty mum about the number of folks with firearms caught inside the Capitol. they just announced that they caught one guy with a truck full of Molotovs and firearms just outside.

                            those fucks are talking about 6 Jan being the dry run for the inauguration. good times. I almost hope they try shit because this time security will be ready.
                            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                            • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              Had a bloodbath resulted-- even if all the casualties were terrorist fucks whom richly deserved 2 to the chest, 1 in the head -- that would probably count as "much worse". a bunch of martyrs for the QAnon set, just great.
                              Takes 20 years to replace a martyr.

                              Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              who knows if 6 police officers would have been sufficient to secure all the Senators?
                              6 Firearms with far more reloads than the 1 firearm found with the fucks and a radio to 1500 other police officers just minutes away.

                              Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              there's been a number of arrests based on firearms possession, but Capitol Police/FBI have been rightly pretty mum about the number of folks with firearms caught inside the Capitol.
                              The police still outgunned them 200 to 1.

                              Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              they just announced that they caught one guy with a truck full of Molotovs and firearms just outside.
                              *** rubbing my fingernails against my chest *** Gee I wondered who said fucks can always resort to Molotovs *** looking in the mirror ***

                              Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              those fucks are talking about 6 Jan being the dry run for the inauguration. good times. I almost hope they try shit because this time security will be ready.
                              They can't be that stupid. Yeah, I know. They can.

                              How long does it take you all to notice the joke?

                              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              Here's the kicker. The fucks didn't want a firefight either and that was the only snowball's chance between Celine's thighs that they had to get what they wanted.
                              Chimo

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                              • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                                6 Firearms with far more reloads than the 1 firearm found with the fucks and a radio to 1500 other police officers just minutes away.
                                This is our counterpart of Nancy Pelosi:

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                                Those handles on the chair aren't there for fun. One hollow-point went by his head and smashed through where he now has that dimple on his cheek, the second one from the same angle from behind went into the spine. 30 years ago when he was Federal Minister of the Interior. His bodyguard took the third shot. All it takes.

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