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2021 Trump-Incited Insurrection at Capitol Building

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  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

    This is you never had as many not believing the result.

    yeah people were very upset with the 2016 election but it never got to the point it had now.

    Is election integrity something to work on ?

    How strict are voter ID rules, checks and the like.

    Can illegals vote. This is not impossible in some states of my country.

    Dominion software ? I got a earful about this.

    The reason voting machines in my country are dumber than calculators is precisely for this reason.
    It's because the Democrats, while wanting to look into what the intelligence services said was an issue, did not do the entire Stop The Steal bullshit.

    We didn't like it but we accepted it and moved on.

    And no, illegals cannot vote in the US. If they do it is in extremely miniscule numbers which have almost zero impact.

    And there ya go with Dominion again...that is a red herring.

    So riddle me this....if there was such a problem with the Dominion systems why are the Republicans Congressmen and Senators who got elected in NOV using Dominion systems not clamoring to have their victories thrown out?
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

    Comment


    • I beg your pardon. The issue is an amnesty.

      Much as the Second Amendment defines the right to bear arms as being necessary for a “well-organized militia,” the right of presidential pardon is defined (Article II, Second 2, Clause 1) as a power related to the President's role as Commander in Chief. In this role, “he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

      That calls into question the right to pardon whose who are not part of the armed forces, or employed by the executive branch, but historic precedent has made the point moot.

      General amnesties, in which specific individuals need not be named, are more applicable to the January 6, 2021 insurrection. Amnesties were granted by Washington (1795), Adams (1800), Madison (1815), Lincoln (1863), Johnson (1865, 1867, and 1868), Roosevelt (1902), and Carter (1977).

      However, the President cannot pardon by anticipation, which would infringe on the powers of the judiciary. Nor may the President pardon someone for contempt of court, where the punishment is remedial. Unlike a criminal or civil charge, there is no right to jury trial for contempt.

      Trust me?
      I'm an economist!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DOR View Post
        I beg your pardon. The issue is an amnesty.

        Much as the Second Amendment defines the right to bear arms as being necessary for a “well-organized militia,” the right of presidential pardon is defined (Article II, Second 2, Clause 1) as a power related to the President's role as Commander in Chief. In this role, “he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

        That calls into question the right to pardon whose who are not part of the armed forces, or employed by the executive branch, but historic precedent has made the point moot.

        General amnesties, in which specific individuals need not be named, are more applicable to the January 6, 2021 insurrection. Amnesties were granted by Washington (1795), Adams (1800), Madison (1815), Lincoln (1863), Johnson (1865, 1867, and 1868), Roosevelt (1902), and Carter (1977).

        However, the President cannot pardon by anticipation, which would infringe on the powers of the judiciary. Nor may the President pardon someone for contempt of court, where the punishment is remedial. Unlike a criminal or civil charge, there is no right to jury trial for contempt.
        This power of pardon confuses me. He cannot pardon if there is no conviction, right? Also I believe pardon assume guilt
        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

        Comment


        • Originally posted by antimony View Post

          This power of pardon confuses me. He cannot pardon if there is no conviction, right? Also I believe pardon assume guilt
          Yup.

          In Burdick v. United States, 236 U.S. 79 (1915) the US Supreme Court found that accepting a pardon was an admission of guilt.
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DOR View Post
            Thanks for finally recognizing the validity of my scenario.
            No, I did not. First of all, she grabbed nothing. I don't know where you work but we LEAVE NOTHING UNSECURED. We lock things up before we leave the room. Otherwise, there would have been a massive manhunt ... AND my point remains valid. This was a clusterfuck. She is exposed and hunted ... for what? A laptop that Moscow did not want or else they would have met up with her.

            If this was a Russian operation, it is a major walking clusterfuck. The base of operations is exposed. All the contacts are exposed. The agents/network is hunted.

            This ain't the movies and amateurs do more self damage than it's worth. Thgere is zero validity in your scenario and your scenario still sucks.
            Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 19 Jan 21,, 17:49.
            Chimo

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              No, I did not. First of all, she grabbed nothing. I don't know where you work but we LEAVE NOTHING UNSECURED. We lock things up before we leave the room. Otherwise, there would have been a massive manhunt ... AND my point remains valid. This was a clusterfuck. She is exposed and hunted ... for what? A laptop that Moscow did not want or else they would have met up with her.

              If this was a Russian operation, it is a major walking clusterfuck. The base of operations is exposed. All the contacts are exposed. The agents/network is hunted.

              This ain't the movies and amateurs do more self damage than it's worth. Thgere is zero validity in your scenario and your scenario still sucks.
              All of that effort grabbing what you believe to be a valuable asset only to be rejected at the gate by your would-be buyer from Moscow.

              AND your ex has ratted you out to the Feds.

              Feels like we're living in a black comedy sir.
              "Draft beer, not people."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                No, I did not. First of all, she grabbed nothing. I don't know where you work but we LEAVE NOTHING UNSECURED. We lock things up before we leave the room. .
                Sir, that's you. You're a disciplined soldier. These are undisciplined civilians, used to a life of relative privilege and comfort, and prone to making dumb, hasty, panicky decisions.
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                  Sir, that's you. You're a disciplined soldier. These are undisciplined civilians, used to a life of relative privilege and comfort, and prone to making dumb, hasty, panicky decisions.
                  You don't get to be clear for CLASS PROTECTED documents unless you can handle CLASS PROTECTED documents. While the elected officials can be excused for not proper security protocals, there is no such excuse for their aides and secretaries. It is their job to make sure everything is SECURED. It should be 2nd nature to them to pick up after their officials. It is a WITH CAUSE event that you can lose your job over and no amount of covering by your sugar daddy/mommy can stop that.

                  Chimo

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    So riddle me this....if there was such a problem with the Dominion systems why are the Republicans Congressmen and Senators who got elected in NOV using Dominion systems not clamoring to have their victories thrown out?
                    HAHA!

                    I can give you similar examples from my country

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                      And DE, Trump incited people from the far-right groups to march to the capitol. This is crystal clear.
                      He asked them to come support him at his rally and then go over to the capitol peacefully & patriotically.

                      The incitement charge is partisan. But GV Chanp said you cannot look at it from a criminal pov.

                      Well. they want to charge him also.

                      Great, let's just throw out all legal requirements here.

                      Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                      American-Indians generally vote for democrats, which is what surprised me about the flag.
                      Trouble with that is what is in store when a Republican wins. It needs to become more like its is in the US. Even split or a little over.

                      Indians in Trump’s insurrection | DH | Jan 15 2021

                      Unfortunately, the first blow to the bipartisan movement of the Indian American Community was given by, of all persons, senior Congress leader the late Siddhartha Shankar Ray, as Indian Ambassador to America. In 1993, he excluded the “Overseas Friends of BJP” from the “1893 Vivekananda Chicago Speech Centenary Celebrations” in America, with the bureaucratic reasoning that it was strictly an official programme of the Indian government. Since then, the BJP segment of Indian Americans, seen taking an active part in all the bipartisan programmes of the Indian American organisations earlier, started staying away.

                      This schismatic trend was reinforced after Prime Minister Narendra Modi assumed power in 2014. Only pro-BJP or pro-RSS Indian Americans were involved in prime ministerial and high-level visits. Others were not invited. Just prior to the 2016 American elections, a new organisation named “Hindus for Trump” came on the scene. The old bipartisan group was left out. In the process, the Indian lobbying power in the US has suffered to Pakistan’s advantage because of the exclusion of non-Hindus from the mainstream of Indian American activities.
                      This sort of partisan nonsense has to go. Cannot effectively lobby if you are divided like this.

                      When you're in the US lobbying they have to leave the home differences out.

                      Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                      You are reading it wrong. DE, supports all governments in power. He supported the Congress in the past, the BJP now. He looks at policies and dissects them, in his own way of course.
                      I had a cushy deal when you had centre right govts in both countries. I'd get a twofer i could use against both opposition.

                      That changes post Jan 20.

                      The people i could rely on for Trump won't be suitable to understand Biden. They are already finding all sorts of little problems like the other side did with Trump's administration.

                      Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Jan 21,, 19:40.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                        You don't get to be clear for CLASS PROTECTED documents unless you can handle CLASS PROTECTED documents. While the elected officials can be excused for not proper security protocals, there is no such excuse for their aides and secretaries. It is their job to make sure everything is SECURED. It should be 2nd nature to them to pick up after their officials. It is a WITH CAUSE event that you can lose your job over and no amount of covering by your sugar daddy/mommy can stop that.
                        Colonel,

                        You would be absolutely shocked at what you have to do in order to get that level of clearance.

                        And Congress is an entirely different level as compared to the Executive.

                        The violation, if the security manager finds any, will not likely result in any firing...probably just a counseling.

                        these folks ain't in the military...different ball of wax.
                        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                        Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • McConnell: Trump 'provoked' Capitol siege, mob 'fed lies'

                          WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell on Tuesday explicitly placed blame on President Donald Trump for the deadly riot at the Capitol, saying the mob was “fed lies” and that the president and others “provoked” those intent on overturning Democrat Joe Biden’s election.

                          McConnell's remarks as he opened the Senate were his most severe and public rebuke of outgoing President Donald Trump. The Republican leader vowed a “safe and successful” inauguration of Biden on Wednesday at the Capitol, which is under extremely tight security.

                          “The mob was fed lies," McConnell said. “They were provoked by the president and other powerful people, and they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government which they did not like.”

                          McConnell said after Biden's inauguration on the Capitol's West Front — what he noted former President George H.W. Bush has called “democracy's front porch” — “We'll move forward.”

                          Trump's last full day in office Tuesday is also senators’ first day back since the deadly Capitol siege, an unparalleled time of transition as the Senate presses ahead to his impeachment trial and starts confirmation hearings on Biden's Cabinet.
                          __________

                          End of Story.
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

                            I have forgotten how to multiquote so this will have to do....

                            Oracle, DOR, Pete....and any others,

                            My point is observe my country, see what is happening, do some research and, please, have an opinion and share it.

                            But when I, or another American who pays attention and realizes what is happening, tells you that you are likely incorrect on your point of view not keep fighting me.

                            If your opinions are formed by some YouTube poster from Upper Eastern Slobovia (and no offense meant to Upper Eastern Slobovia) and mine are by Reuters, AP, UPI,the Washington Post, and many other newspapers....

                            Well forgive me if I don't consider your opinion to be worthwhile.

                            I wish no one ill will but I've been plugge dinto American politics for 50 years so I have some background on which to base my opinions.
                            Let me clarify here.

                            Those publications are standard fare on the board when i joined back in 2010.

                            Who was in office ? Obama. Obama is a democrat.

                            That is why those publications work and i will use them with Biden.

                            Reason you see me posting stuff from people you never heard of is those publications did not work with Trump so i had to look for ones that did.

                            While working to explain what Trump was up to they won't be compatible with Biden. Or at least i don't think they will.

                            There won't be much arguments since we will be reading off the same script coming tomorrow.

                            Promise

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              You don't get to be clear for CLASS PROTECTED documents unless you can handle CLASS PROTECTED documents. While the elected officials can be excused for not proper security protocals, there is no such excuse for their aides and secretaries. It is their job to make sure everything is SECURED. It should be 2nd nature to them to pick up after their officials. It is a WITH CAUSE event that you can lose your job over and no amount of covering by your sugar daddy/mommy can stop that.
                              Sir, I have read the stories of men like Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanssen, John Anthony Walker, Jerry Whitworth and many others.

                              When they were asked how they were able to conduct such extensive and prolonged espionage, they invariably responded that their colleagues were utterly lax with protected documents, security procedures and the like, and it made their task almost child's play.
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • Sir, I have read the stories of men like Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanssen, John Anthony Walker, Jerry Whitworth and many others.

                                When they were asked how they were able to conduct such extensive and prolonged espionage, they invariably responded that their colleagues were utterly lax with protected documents, security procedures and the like, and it made their task almost child's play.
                                doesn't even need to be civilian; plenty of military folks blow at following basic security protocols-- which is why anyone who has worked in the government the last, oh 15 years or so, is deathly familiar of Jeff and Tina.

                                same with the CIA -- the hack of its communications systems resulted in the destruction of US agent networks in Iran and China.

                                in any case, regarding Pelosi's laptop, etc, looked like the stupid girl just took up a target of opportunity. it's highly unlikely there was anything super classified on it.
                                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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