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2021 Trump-Incited Insurrection at Capitol Building

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  • Let's get into this incitement nonsense. WHO says that ?

    The media
    The Opposition

    HAHA!

    Listen to the man



    US must be a nation of law and order

    Those who broke the law will be brought to justice.

    Those who infiltrated the capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy.

    Those engaging in acts of violence & destruction do not represent our country.



    That is not what i expect to hear from some one who incited the riots. I'd expect him to be defending them, proud of it even. Unabashedly So !

    I would expect him to put the kibosh on any investigations. How he does that when he is out of office is any one's guess.

    Or be seen bailing out the rioters. As was witnessed in the BLM riots, an order of magnitude worse by no less than your soon to be Vice president Kamala


    Laws on incitement are pretty clear, go though his tweets and speeches and then make the case. Won't go far.

    Comment


    • SIGH! And here was me hoping the silence would last longer.

      DE, surely we have passed the point where you should be using what you think or what you expect as a yardstick to measure anything to do with this topic. If you lack the insight or imagination to understand why a person might behave differently to what you expect, maybe just ask others to explain it to you. Perhaps some patient soul who has not been tortured by your 'stream of consciousness meets the energizer bunny' approach to US politics will happen along to help you out.

      In the meantime, less is more. Much, much, much less.
      sigpic

      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        I've read the objectives wrong. The positions were abandonned. The objective on both sides were the people inside those chambers. Security wants them secured from harm. The rioters wants to harm them. Security achieved their objectives.
        Yup....that is the mission of the USCP...to protect the members and their staffs.

        Real Estate doesn't mean shit.
        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
        Mark Twain

        Comment


        • Double Edge, you again take the opportunity to totally misread the American electorate & America.

          On what do you base your assumptions and opinions?

          What do YOU know about America?

          Not what do you know about us based on what you read on the internet....
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
            Let's get into this incitement nonsense. WHO says that ?

            The media
            The Opposition

            HAHA!

            Listen to the man



            US must be a nation of law and order

            Those who broke the law will be brought to justice.

            Those who infiltrated the capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy.

            Those engaging in acts of violence & destruction do not represent our country.



            That is not what i expect to hear from some one who incited the riots. I'd expect him to be defending them, proud of it even. Unabashedly So !

            I would expect him to put the kibosh on any investigations. How he does that when he is out of office is any one's guess.

            Or be seen bailing out the rioters. As was witnessed in the BLM riots, an order of magnitude worse by no less than your soon to be Vice president Kamala


            Laws on incitement are pretty clear, go though his tweets and speeches and then make the case. Won't go far.
            So, asking for contributions for bail money is the same as inciting an insurrection to overturn democracy?
            Sheesh.
            Trust me?
            I'm an economist!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              Let's get into this incitement nonsense. WHO says that ?

              The media
              The Opposition

              HAHA!

              Listen to the man



              US must be a nation of law and order

              Those who broke the law will be brought to justice.

              Those who infiltrated the capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy.

              Those engaging in acts of violence & destruction do not represent our country.



              That is not what i expect to hear from some one who incited the riots. I'd expect him to be defending them, proud of it even. Unabashedly So !

              I would expect him to put the kibosh on any investigations. How he does that when he is out of office is any one's guess.

              Or be seen bailing out the rioters. As was witnessed in the BLM riots, an order of magnitude worse by no less than your soon to be Vice president Kamala


              Laws on incitement are pretty clear, go though his tweets and speeches and then make the case. Won't go far.
              Trump probably did not intend for active violence resulting people's deaths, but you still bear responsibility for what a crowd does when you motivate a crowd to assemble and use rhetoric indicating that you're ready for a fight and the republic is about to die.

              Basically, he has the underwear gnomes strategy:
              1. Tell people to gather at Capitol
              2. ????
              3. Election!

              I wouldn't call this convictable under criminal incitement laws, but impeachment of public officials is a different question. Impeachment is also ultimately a political question, not a criminal question, so applying the same standards as criminal law to an impeachment proceeding is a misunderstanding of what we want to use impeachment for.

              Re: BLM, the race baiters are also morons, but assaulting the Capitol is vastly different and vastly worse. The Summer of George was looting and street violence the kind of which we have seen before. Assaulting the Capitol is an attempt to overturn democratic processes.

              Also, no, you cannot "defile" or "profane" or "desecrate" the Capitol, because the Capitol is explicitly not sacred.


              More broadly:
              Trump is not the most popular Republican, his approval rating among Republicans has fallen to around the 70s. He is losing support among the base for Jan 6th.
              He does his overperform his polls in some areas. Polls seem to miss Trump voters specifically for whatever reason. Other GOP members do not seem to overperform quite as much. Maybe Susan Collins?
              Trump is too divisive a figure to serve as a base, even among GOPers at this point. You basically need 90+% approval among your base voters to really compete in elections. Plus independents, and you need a lot because there are more registered Dems than GOP. Trump can't deliver that.
              Last edited by GVChamp; 14 Jan 21,, 17:09.
              "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

              Comment


              • I have visited the US Capitol multiple times with my family. It gave me a sense of pride to stand inside what I would call the birthplace of modern democracies. To a newly minted citizen and immigrant like me, it has been a temple of what a democracy stands for. I recall the tight security we needed to go through. Seeing these degenerates vandalize and desecrate this place was a moment of deep sadness. Also to GVChamp , the Capitol is a temple to democracy. To nonbelievers like us, it is as close to a sacred place that you can get
                "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  Let's get into this incitement nonsense. WHO says that ?

                  The media
                  The Opposition

                  HAHA!

                  Listen to the man



                  US must be a nation of law and order

                  Those who broke the law will be brought to justice.

                  Those who infiltrated the capitol have defiled the seat of American democracy.

                  Those engaging in acts of violence & destruction do not represent our country.



                  That is not what i expect to hear from some one who incited the riots. I'd expect him to be defending them, proud of it even. Unabashedly So !

                  I would expect him to put the kibosh on any investigations. How he does that when he is out of office is any one's guess.

                  Or be seen bailing out the rioters. As was witnessed in the BLM riots, an order of magnitude worse by no less than your soon to be Vice president Kamala


                  Laws on incitement are pretty clear, go though his tweets and speeches and then make the case. Won't go far.
                  Let me make this easier for you, in a language you understand. Pakistani terrorists attacking a crowded market vs. Pakistani terrorists attacking the Indian Parliament. As an Indian, which one do you find more despicable?
                  "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    Double Edge, you again take the opportunity to totally misread the American electorate & America.

                    On what do you base your assumptions and opinions?

                    What do YOU know about America?

                    Not what do you know about us based on what you read on the internet....
                    His position is very similar to what we Indians call Bhakts, or rabid Hindutvavadis (India's version of ethnonationalism, only based on the Hindu religion instead of race). Many of these folks pined for the bromance between Indian PM Modi and President Trump, at full display in that "Howdy Modi" shindig in Texas. Lately, they have taken to social media decrying the US election process because their favorite white boy (orange boy?) was defeated.
                    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by antimony View Post

                      His position is very similar to what we Indians call Bhakts, or rabid Hindutvavadis (India's version of ethnonationalism, only based on the Hindu religion instead of race). Many of these folks pined for the bromance between Indian PM Modi and President Trump, at full display in that "Howdy Modi" shindig in Texas. Lately, they have taken to social media decrying the US election process because their favorite white boy (orange boy?) was defeated.
                      Then they need to stick to Indian politics and leave American politics to we Americans.

                      I may form an opinion about politics in India but it would be be the heights of hubris for me to think that I have any right to comment on that on a thread dedicated to Indian politics....which is elsewhere on this website.
                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

                        Then they need to stick to Indian politics and leave American politics to we Americans.

                        I may form an opinion about politics in India but it would be be the heights of hubris for me to think that I have any right to comment on that on a thread dedicated to Indian politics....which is elsewhere on this website.
                        Unfortunately for everyone involved, the Hindutva nuts of India feel a kinship for their ideological brothers here in the US, based on a shared love of ethnic superiority and a shared hatred of poor immigrant minorities. While they are ruining things back in India, their US citizen immigrant brethren are filling up Trump rallies and even bringing Indian politics to the US, as could be seen in the nauseating bro-fest that was the "Howdy Modi" event, where perhaps for the first time in history an Indian PM Presidential a US political candidate ("Ab ki baar Trump Sarkar" or "Next times, a Trump Administration"). There were a couple of idiots who even brought the Indian Flag to that Capitol Hill protest, where I could see the Tricolor fluttering among the Confederate Flag and other hateful objects.
                        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                        Comment


                        • National Guardsman Is 1st Current Service Member to Be Arrested After Capitol Riot

                          Two Virginia police officers charged in connection with the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol have military backgrounds -- with one still serving as a corporal in the National Guard.

                          Jacob Fracker, an infantryman with the Virginia National Guard who previously served as a Marine, and Thomas Robertson, an Army veteran, were arrested in Virginia on Wednesday.


                          Fracker is the first person currently serving in the U.S. military known to have been charged following last week's mob at the Capitol.

                          Fracker and Robertson are both members of the Rocky Mount Police Department, about 25 miles outside Roanoke. They've been placed on administrative leave, according to their department, after each was charged with one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority and one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.

                          The Virginia National Guard declined to release more details about Fracker's career or unit, saying more information would be disclosed following an investigation. A.A. "Cotton" Puryear, a spokesman for the state's Guard, said Fracker was not among the National Guard members dispatched to Washington, D.C., to provide security ahead of President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration.

                          Fracker did not respond to a request for comment from Military.com. Robertson, who according to a 2011 report from the Franklin News-Post served four years with the Army in the 1990s and later deployed to Iraq with a Virginia Beach Army Reserve unit, could not be reached for comment.

                          The Franklin News-Post story on Robertson from 10 years ago details wounds that he suffered in a mortar blast while deployed, which he told the paper "should have killed me."

                          Fracker and Robertson were photographed in the Capitol "making an obscene statement in front of a statue of John Stark," according to the Justice Department. Stark was a military officer who fought in both the French and Indian War and the American Revolution.

                          A statement of facts on the pair posted by the DOJ on Wednesday says that, at the time they were photographed, Fracker and Robertson were off duty from their positions with the Rocky Mount Police Department.

                          In a screenshot of a now-deleted Facebook post made by Fracker, included in the DOJ's statement, the corporal wrote that he can protest for what he believes in, adding, "After all, I fought for your right to do it."

                          Fracker, according to the DOJ, also wrote, "Lol to anyone who's possibly concerned about the picture of me going around... Sorry I hate freedom?...Not like I did anything illegal."

                          Robertson, the DOJ's documents show, is quoted as saying, "CNN and the Left are just mad because we actually attacked the government who is the problem and not some random small business ... The right IN ONE DAY took the f***** U.S. Capitol. Keep poking us."

                          He also stated, according to the DOJ, that he was "proud" of the photo in an Instagram post that was shared to Facebook because he was "willing to put skin in the game."


                          Before joining the Virginia National Guard, Fracker served as a Marine infantry rifleman from 2010 to 2014. He deployed to Afghanistan twice and left the service as a corporal.

                          His last assignment was with the North Carolina-based 1st Battalion, 8th Marines. He earned a Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal and Combat Action Ribbon during his time in the Corps.

                          Fracker and Robertson are among a growing group of people with military ties who've been questioned or charged in the wake of last week's violent takeover of the U.S. Capitol.

                          In a call with reporters Thursday, defense officials were asked how many current or former service members are under investigation for their possible involvement last week. The Pentagon officials referred all questions to the Justice Department. The DOJ and FBI did not immediately respond to questions about the matter.

                          ABC News reported this week that retired SEAL Adam Newbold, who retired in 2017 and was working as a Navy contractor, was questioned by the FBI after he posted a now-deleted video on Facebook appearing to praise the mob's actions at the Capitol. Newbold told Task & Purpose that he did not go inside the building.

                          Retired Air Force Lt. Col. Larry Rendall Brock Jr., who was photographed carrying zip-tie handcuffs and wearing military patches on a flak jacket during the siege, was arrested and charged over the weekend. Jacob Anthony Angeli Chansley, who served in the Navy for two years, was also arrested after he was photographed inside the Capitol wearing a fur headdress with horns and face paint.

                          Top military leaders took the unusual step this week of addressing the Jan. 6 mob at the Capitol, calling the situation inconsistent with the U.S. rule of law and a direct assault on the American way of life.

                          "The rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence, sedition and insurrection," the memo sent to the entire military and signed by eight general and flag officers states. "... "Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law."

                          At a virtual federal court hearing in Virginia on Wednesday, HuffPost reported, the district's top prosecutor requested that Fracker and Robertson be put on GPS monitors and be required to stay away from Washington, D.C.

                          "I have no need or desire to go to the city of Washington, D.C.," Robertson said, according to the news site. "I'm a 27-year police veteran and an honorably discharged United States Army veteran with service in Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan and Nicaragua. Again, I have no indication or any reason to be in D.C. and will not be."

                          The judge, citing the defendants' military and law enforcement service, said he would not put the defendants on GPS monitors as the government requested, but said they could not have firearms in their home, restricted their travel, and ordered them to stay away from public demonstrations, HuffPost reported.

                          Politico reported last week that a police officer with the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington, D.C., wrote in a public Facebook post that off-duty police officers and military members were among the rioters at the Capitol, flashing their badges and ID cards as they attempted to overrun the building.

                          "If these people can storm the Capitol building with no regard to punishment, you have to wonder how much they abuse their powers when they put on their uniforms," the officer wrote, according to Politico.

                          The Capitol and D.C. police departments did not respond to questions about the statement.
                          ____________
                          Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                          Comment


                          • Lawmakers introduce bipartisan bill to award Capitol police officer Eugene Goodman congressional gold medal

                            A bipartisan group of lawmakers has introduced legislation to award United States Capitol Police (USCP) officer Eugene Goodman the congressional gold medal after he was seen thwarting a deadly mob from attacking the Senate chambers during the pro-Trump riots in Washington last week.

                            A video of the incident went viral after it was posted to Twitter by HuffPost journalist Igor Bobic. Footage showed Officer Goodman singlehandedly leading the mob away from the Senate chambers just as it was reportedly being sealed off due to the violent riots.

                            The mob clashed with police officers on 6 January, injuring 14 and killing at least one, as it stormed the Capitol building during the certification of the 2020 presidential elections.

                            President Donald Trump had just encouraged his supporters to march to the Capitol in a fiery speech, vowing to “never stop fighting” while continuing to promote baseless and debunked claims of rampant voter fraud leading to his electoral defeat.

                            Officer Goodman was heralded as a hero in the wake of the riots, as many viewers said the video showed him strategically preventing the mob from breaching the Senate chambers.

                            In the video, Officer Goodman runs up several flights of stairs as he calls for backup and engages with a male rioter at the front of the mob.

                            At one point, he can be seen looking towards the entryway of the Senate chambers, which had not yet been sealed off, according to contemporaneous notes made by a Washington Post reporter.

                            He then pushes the lead rioter before running away from the entry, an apparent move done to distract the mob and lead them away from where lawmakers were hiding behind furniture and locked doors.


                            The new legislation was introduced by Democratic Representatives Charlie Crist of Florida and Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, as well as Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace of South Carolina.

                            In a profile story by the Washington Post, friends told the newspaper Officer Goodman was overwhelmed by the attention he had received for his actions on the day of the riots.

                            “My job is to protect and serve,” he said in a statement. “And on that day, I was protecting.”
                            ____________

                            If you ever want to know what a Big Damn Hero looks like, then look no further than Eugene Goodman. The man used himself as live bait for a violent mob of Trump worshiping cultists.
                            Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                              If you ever want to know what a Big Damn Hero looks like, then look no further than Eugene Goodman. The man used himself as live bait for violent mob of Trump worshiping cultists.
                              The irony is that he saved that violent mob of Trump worshipping cultists. There's no part of me that wanted that mob to turn right and walk into a hail of bullets but I wouldn't lose sleep either.

                              Chimo

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

                                Then they need to stick to Indian politics and leave American politics to we Americans.

                                I may form an opinion about politics in India but it would be be the heights of hubris for me to think that I have any right to comment on that on a thread dedicated to Indian politics....which is elsewhere on this website.
                                Careful Buck, you'll scare all us Furners away.

                                The issue for me is a willingness to be informed by good sources and a willingness to try to understand. That includes listening to & learning from informed Americans. If I were repeatedly being told by intelligent Americans that I straight out didn't understand the topic (as opposed to just having a different political opinion) I would seek to inform myself rather than read more stuff by Australians commentating on the US. That lack of self awareness seems to be an issue here.
                                sigpic

                                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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