Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2021 Trump-Incited Insurrection at Capitol Building

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
    If you can't distinguish between QAnon and the world's major religions, you're missing out on a pretty big chunk of the human experience. Major global religions have lasted for millennia, and their endurance makes the ties that bind geopolitical entities look frail.
    I was talking about the process behind a person believing very strongly in something without requiring any real evidence for it, because that is at the heart of this and most people across the world have such beliefs in various flavors and to various degrees. I wasn't talking about the effects of the said beliefs themselves which will depend of course on the content of the beliefs, but which have been very bad in many instances in the past as well (and the present in some cases).

    As for longevity, the religion of ancient Egypt lasted over 3 millenia, yet it is considered to be complete fantasy now by everyone including the modern inhabitants of that region. Mormonism is a legitimate religion now in the US and the adherents of Scientology definitely consider their beliefs to be religious, even though others call it a cult. But other religions have been dismissed as cults when they started eons ago only to grow into global powerhouses. The beliefs of Scientology are even more batshit crazy than the QAnon conspiracy. Yet we have been living with a lot of people who believe them to be literally true for some time now. It is quite fascinating when you consider it solely from a perspective of human psychology.

    Then of course you are brought back down to earth when you see the real life consequences of it.
    Last edited by Firestorm; 13 Jan 21,, 04:34.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      Not according to this source.


      This is the House chamber pictured.

      I suppose whatever security presence there was in the Senate at the time was completely withdrawn, as the protestors eventually broke in and had unopposed free rein in the chamber.



      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
        This is the House chamber pictured.

        I suppose whatever security presence there was in the Senate at the time was completely withdrawn, as the protestors eventually broke in and had unopposed free rein in the chamber.
        The people in both House and the Senate were extracted by armed security. It was after that both Chambers were occupied by the rioters. No Congressman, Senator, or Staff were ever in the rioters' caputre.

        Chimo

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          The people in both House and the Senate were extracted by armed security. It was after that both Chambers were occupied by the rioters. No Congressman, Senator, or Staff were ever in the rioters' caputre.
          That's not the same as whether or not the chambers were breached.
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
            That's not the same as whether or not the chambers were breached.
            I've read the objectives wrong. The positions were abandonned. The objective on both sides were the people inside those chambers. Security wants them secured from harm. The rioters wants to harm them. Security achieved their objectives.
            Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 13 Jan 21,, 17:45.
            Chimo

            Comment


            • 'What the hell was it all for?' Navy SEAL veteran facing FBI questioning about Capitol siege says things were taken too far

              A former Navy SEAL who is facing questions from the FBI after boasting about the Capitol siege in a video told ABC News on Tuesday that he now realizes "it was all taken too far."

              Adam Newbold, who reportedly spent over two decades in the US Navy and is a retired reserve SEAL, posted a video on Jan. 6 reportedly stating that he felt pride following the events that unfolded in DC that day. He said that he hoped "it pans out to be a positive revolution."

              "I'm hoping the message was strong enough," he said in the video, which has since been deleted from Facebook but was obtained by ABC News. "Unfortunately, maybe it wasn't. I hate to see this escalate more."

              He reportedly said that the aim was to leave congressional leaders "shaking in their shoes" and make them "think twice about what they're doing."


              Talking to ABC News on Tuesday, he said that he had been interviewed by the FBI and was facing additional questioning about his involvement in the events at the Capitol, which he said did not include assaulting law enforcement personnel or breaching the halls of Congress.

              Newbold told the outlet that he would like to express a "cry for clemency," explaining that his "life has been absolutely turned upside down." He argued that he is not a "terrorist" or a "traitor."

              He said that he did not fully realize what was happening at the Capitol at the time, explaining that the realization of what had occurred did not set in until he saw that people had been killed.

              "Now I regret being in the crowd," he told ABC News, adding that "when you are in the arena, you don't see the big picture." Reflecting on the "Save America" protests that turned violent last Wednesday, he said. "It accomplished nothing. What the hell was it all for?"

              Newbold acknowledged that he now accepts that President-elect Joe Biden will be the next president.

              Last Wednesday, a pro-Trump mob marched on and stormed the Capitol in an attempt to challenge efforts by lawmakers to certify President-elect Joe Biden's victory in the 2020 presidential election. In addition to destruction of property, five people died.

              Among the protesters were several members of the veterans community, such as retired Air Force Reserve Lt. Col. Larry Rendall Brock Jr., who was spotted wearing tactical gear and carrying zip-tie handcuffs, Air Force veteran, Ashli Babbitt, who was shot and killed during the riots, and Jacob Chansley, a Navy veteran and prominent QAnon conspiracy theorist who stormed the Capitol in a furry headdress with horns and a spear.

              There were also military veterans among the people defending the Capitol. One, Army veteran and Capitol Police officer Eugene Goodman, cleverly lured rioters away from the Senate chambers. Another, Air National Guard veteran and Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, made the ultimate sacrifice and was killed in the line of duty.

              A couple of days after the riots, Newbold told The Review, a local news outlet in Lisbon, Ohio, that that the attack on the Capitol is not who he is. "We don't do that stuff," he said, telling the paper that he and some of the others with him tried to help police.

              "They are not our enemies. They are our friends," Newbold, who currently works as a tactical shooting instructor, said of law enforcement in a social media post the day before the riots at the Capitol.

              ABC News reported that a video posted on Newbold's Facebook page suggested using walking sticks, batons, and mounted American flags as weapons to defend themselves if necessary. Videos of the riots show that some Trump supporters used flag poles to beat police officers during the assault.

              Talking to local media in Ohio, Newbold said that it was "just mass chaos" at the Capitol, adding that "the cops were so completely overwhelmed they could not hold back the crowd."

              Others have made similar statements.

              Some veterans in Congress, such as Arizona Democrat and former Marine Rep. Ruben Gallego, have strongly condemned military veterans who took part in last week's events at the Capitol.

              In a statement Monday, he said that "in attacking the Capitol, the Congress, and the Constitution that they swore to protect, any current or former military members who may have participated have disgraced themselves and committed serious crimes against the People of the United States."
              __________

              Just menacing, mob action and intimidation, no big deal
              Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

              Comment


              • Some Rioters Could Face Prison Terms of 20 Years or More, Officials Say




                The FBI has now opened up nearly 160 cases into those involved in last week's siege at the U.S. Capitol.

                Acting U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin and FBI Washington Field Office Assistant Director in Charge Steven D'Antuono announced Tuesday that federal charges brought so far against dozens of defendants are "only the beginning."

                "We're looking at significant felony cases tied to sedition and conspiracy," Sherwin said during a news conference. Some of the felonies the Justice Department is considering have prison terms of up to 20 years, he added.

                The misdemeanor charges that currently apply to "the zip-tie guys ... 'the Brocks' that were arrested" will likely be elevated over the next few months as part of the extensive investigation, which will probably take years, he said.

                Sherwin was referring to Larry Rendall Brock Jr., an Air Force veteran seen brandishing zip-tie handcuffs in the Senate chamber. Brock was arrested Sunday in Texas and charged with knowingly entering a restricted building without lawful authority, along with one count of "violent entry and disorderly conduct," according to the DOJ.

                Brock retired from the Air Force Reserve in 2014 as a lieutenant colonel, the service has said. While he faces civilian charges, he is unlikely to be recalled to go through the military justice system, experts say.

                But should the charges against Brock be elevated to sedition or certain other serious offenses and he is convicted, he would be subject to the Hiss Act. While the provision applies mostly to lawmakers, it strips pensions or pay from federal and former federal employees convicted of some offenses. As someone who is presumably collecting military pay and benefits, the Hiss Act would apply to Brock under those circumstances, said Gary Solis, who served as a Marine judge advocate general and taught military law at West Point and Georgetown University.

                "They've already got that train in motion," Solis said, referring to the DOJ handling the case instead of turning it over to the military.

                As Solis and other experts told Military.com on Monday, the Uniform Code of Military Justice applies differently to different retiree groups, and calling Brock -- who left as a reservist -- back under the military's law would be difficult.

                "The chances that the military would want to step in, and the chances that the government would allow them to step in, are slim to none," Solis said Tuesday.

                Sherwin said the FBI is coordinating with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and Metro Police to find the individual or individuals who planted suspected explosive devices outside the D.C. headquarters of both the Republican and Democratic National Committees.

                When asked whether those responsible for the pipe bombs could be brought up on domestic terror charges, Sherwin demurred, saying he did not like to use "this tyranny of labels."

                "We have plenty of federal resources at our disposal, plenty of federal charges to address all of this conduct -- from felony murder related to the possession and use of destructive devices to seditious conspiracy," he said.

                At least a handful of veterans have been identified as taking part in the riots. Lawmakers have called on the Pentagon to open investigations into whether any active-duty members might have also been present.

                Kristofer Goldsmith, an Army veteran who has studied disinformation and propaganda campaigns targeted at military personnel and veterans, and has lobbied Congress to address misuse of social media platforms by criminals, terrorist groups and foreign entities, said Tuesday that he was not surprised that veterans were involved, given that they are actively recruited by extremist groups.

                "The fact that this happened on a Wednesday probably saved a lot of careers," he said. "If it had happened on a weekend where people could have taken leave, I think a lot of active-duty people would have been involved."

                Goldsmith said the riot at the Capitol should serve as a wake-up call to the Defense Department and Department of Veterans Affairs to institute classes on media awareness and provide antivirus software and credit monitoring to members and veterans. He added that social media platforms need to do more to protect users, saying he is glad that the major platforms are finally tamping down on extremists and others who use public forums to commit crime and recruit.

                "I wish some of the steps they'd taken happened three years ago when I first started ringing the alarm bells about the fake Vietnam Veterans of America page on Facebook that came out of Bulgaria," he said.
                __________
                Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  The people in both House and the Senate were extracted by armed security. It was after that both Chambers were occupied by the rioters. No Congressman, Senator, or Staff were ever in the rioters' caputre.
                  As far as I know, the House chamber was never breached, nor was it ever fully evacuated. A window was broken, and there were officers with guns drawn behind a makeshift barricade (above picture).
                  "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                  Comment


                  • https://abcnews.go.com/US/video-show...ry?id=75206495

                    'I am not a terrorist': Retired Navy SEAL speaks after Capitol siege

                    [...]
                    "I would like to express to you just a cry for clemency, as you understand that my life now has been absolutely turned upside-down," Newbold told ABC News. "I am not a terrorist. I am not a traitor."
                    Newbold, who served 24 years in the U.S. Navy and has said online that he trains civilians and police in tactical shooting, said he wanted to make lawmakers "think twice about what they're doing" and to be left "shaking in their shoes."
                    LOL. So if that's what he wanted, how is he not a terrorist?

                    First definition of terrorism that pops up when searching Google:
                    --the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
                    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                      As far as I know, the House chamber was never breached, nor was it ever fully evacuated. A window was broken, and there were officers with guns drawn behind a makeshift barricade (above picture).
                      According to MSNBC, the House was also breach.

                      https://www.msnbc.com/mtp-daily/watc...rs-98943557849



                      Chimo

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                        According to MSNBC, the House was also breach.

                        https://www.msnbc.com/mtp-daily/watc...rs-98943557849


                        I haven't found a single photograph or video anywhere the corroborates that. Nothing is mentioned about the House being breached on the Wikipedia article either. The MSNBC headline is in error.
                        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                          I haven't found a single photograph or video anywhere the corroborates that. Nothing is mentioned about the House being breached on the Wikipedia article either. The MSNBC headline is in error.
                          The video gives a picture of a protester sitting in the House Speaker's desk.

                          Chimo

                          Comment


                          • This is a photograph of the Senate, not the House. The reporter speaking in the video is mistaken about which chamber that is.

                            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                            Comment


                            • I stand corrected.
                              Chimo

                              Comment


                              • While you guys argue over the details of one event what is in store for the future when a significant portion of the electorate believes the election was stolen or more importantly does not have faith in the process. Whether this number will decrease in time as people accept the results as they always have.

                                US election 2020: The people who still believe Trump won | BBC | Jan 05 2021

                                If some one like Trump could even get into office confirms faith that the system is working (certainly did for me) then why is it so hard to accept he could lose ?

                                The man is still the most popular voted Republican president in US election history. Got the most votes of any Republican. And that support cut across ethnic lines and was not just one community voting for him.

                                This for a guy who didn't think he would even win the first time.
                                Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Jan 21,, 12:50.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X