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  • Regardless if true he needs to be busted to private, dishonorably discharged and sent to Leveanworth.

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    • That is where we disagree.

      The Colonel has laid that case out well. He had to do the exact thing on the ground in the Balkans like I did on the Czech border. It is what professionals do to keep tensions down. Happens in Korea on a weekly basis at Panmunjom.
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

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      • Counterparts exchanging hellos across a hostile border is a far cry from hey I'll give you a heads up before we go pearshaped so you can defend against us. He needs to be treated the same as you or I would be. Giving a forgien power information or promising to without authorization to do so is spying.

        Colonel, when it comes to nuclear release, as far as anyone knows he is not part of the nuclear release decision making. Based on past statements only POTUS has the authority and it is POTUS alone. The JCS is not a command authority and by statue has no right to command. It's sole job is to advise POTUS and SecDef in what the military can and cannot do.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
          Counterparts exchanging hellos across a hostile border is a far cry from hey I'll give you a heads up before we go pearshaped so you can defend against us. He needs to be treated the same as you or I would be. Giving a forgien power information or promising to without authorization to do so is spying.
          Without the full conversation, we are only speculating. For all we know, the Chinese would have been fearing a Kosovo War/Wag the Tail scenario in which Trump would start a war just to stay in power.

          And telling an enemy combatant that I will escalte to stupidity is not treason. All Miley did was to tell his counterpart that the US is not going to do anything stupid.

          Originally posted by zraver View Post
          Colonel, when it comes to nuclear release, as far as anyone knows he is not part of the nuclear release decision making. Based on past statements only POTUS has the authority and it is POTUS alone. The JCS is not a command authority and by statue has no right to command. It's sole job is to advise POTUS and SecDef in what the military can and cannot do.
          Then, your point is mute. It would never get to Miley no matter what kind of order he issues. The release protocals would never touch him.
          Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 15 Sep 21,, 18:55.
          Chimo

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          • I would also add.....what was the Intelligence Community telling the CJCS about what was happening in Peking...at least their perception of what was happening...that got him Milley to react the way he did?
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

            Comment


            • OOE, the reports have him going to officers in the actual nuclear matrix and telling them to ignore Trump and go through him instead. Including reports he was demanding an oath from these officers.

              Alby, it doesn't matter. You don't offer to betray your country. That's the moment that crossed the line. It's one thing to say hey we're stable relax. It is quite another to say but if things change I'll let you know ahead of time

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              • Z, I am not a trained Strategist but I believe the Colonel is....which is why I tend to go with what he is saying. It is also what I am hearing from several peers here in CONUS who are DOD strategists who all concur this is in the realm of what the CJCS is supposed to do...make sure a possible adversary understands that intentions are not aggressive. Again, we are not at war with China. Several senior officers have done this in the past with other nations...ABLE ARCHER comes to mind.
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  OOE, the reports have him going to officers in the actual nuclear matrix and telling them to ignore Trump and go through him instead. Including reports he was demanding an oath from these officers.
                  Apparently something similar occurred with Nixon. They were afraid that he was so batshit off-the-rails after being informed that his days in office were limited that he could order a nuclear strike out of the blue.

                  Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  Alby, it doesn't matter. You don't offer to betray your country. That's the moment that crossed the line. It's one thing to say hey we're stable relax. It is quite another to say but if things change I'll let you know ahead of time
                  Presumably the "things changed" would be limited solely to "Our Commander-in-Chief has lost his mind and wants to start a war that neither country wants or needs, for the sole purpose of keeping himself in power".



                  Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                    OOE, the reports have him going to officers in the actual nuclear matrix and telling them to ignore Trump and go through him instead. Including reports he was demanding an oath from these officers.
                    Nothing illegal about any of this

                    From Secret action taken to prevent 'screaming' Trump using nuclear weapons, new book says - Skynews

                    They write that Gen Milley was deeply disturbed by the attack on the Capitol and "was certain that Trump had gone into a serious mental decline in the aftermath of the election, with Trump now all but manic, screaming at officials and constructing his own alternate reality about endless election conspiracies."

                    "You never know what a president's trigger point is," he allegedly told his staff, according to CNN.

                    In a bold move, the top military officer called a secret meeting in his Pentagon office on 8 January to review the processes for launching military action and nuclear weapons.

                    He allegedly told the officials in charge of the Pentagon's war room, the National Military Command Center, to not take any orders unless he was involved.

                    Gen Milley told the officials: "No matter what you are told, you do the procedure. You do the process. And I'm part of that procedure".

                    "Got it?" he asked, according to the book.

                    The officials are said to have replied "yes, sir" and the authors wrote that Gen Milley "considered it an oath".
                    The MNCC answers directly the CJCS.

                    Originally posted by zraver View Post
                    Alby, it doesn't matter. You don't offer to betray your country. That's the moment that crossed the line. It's one thing to say hey we're stable relax. It is quite another to say but if things change I'll let you know ahead of time
                    HJere is the reported conversation.

                    From Secret action taken to prevent 'screaming' Trump using nuclear weapons, new book says - Skynews

                    "General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay," Gen Milley told him in the first call on 30 October 2020, according to the book. "We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you."

                    "If we're going to attack, I'm going to call you ahead of time. It's not going to be a surprise," Gen Milley reportedly said.
                    All this to me says "We're not going to do anything stupid and you will know if stupid is coming up." Again, nothing illegal nor treasonous about any of this. This is stopping the Chinese from doing stupid.
                    Chimo

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      Alby, someone who gives or offers information or gives or offers support to a forgiven power is a spy. Spying is treason, it does not require a state of war.
                      That entire sentence is demonstratively true of Donald Trump while he was Commander-in-Chief. But the Right had no problem with it then, or now.

                      General Milley on the other hand was trying to keep a full-blown war from erupting due to Donald Trump's clearly unhinged mental state and endless thirst for power and revenge, but I'm willing to bet you that dgaf about either of those things.
                      Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                      Comment


                      • Says quite a bit about Donald Trump when the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs has to explicitly remind the U.S. military that the sedition and insurrection of January 6th are against the oath of taken by service members, and that Joe Biden WILL be inaugurated on January 20th in accordance with the Constitution, full stop.

                        MESSAGE TO THE JOINT FORCE

                        The American people have trusted the Armed Forces of the United States to protect them and our Constitution for almost 250 years. As we have done throughout our history, the U.S. military will obey lawful orders from civilian leadership, support civil authorities to protect lives and property, ensure public safety in accordance with the law, and remain fully committed to protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

                        The violent riot in Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021 was a direct assault on the U.S. Congress, the Capitol building, and our Constitutional process. We mourn the deaths of the two Capitol policemen and others connected to these unprecedented events.

                        We witnessed actions inside the Capitol building that were inconsistent with the rule of law. The rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence, sedition and insurrection.

                        As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law.

                        On January 20, 2021, in accordance with the Constitution, confirmed by the states and the courts, and certified by Congress, President-elect Biden will be inaugurated and will become our 46th Commander in Chief.


                        To our men and women deployed and at home, safeguarding our country-stay ready, keep your eyes on the horizon, and remain focused on the mission. We honor your continued service in defense of every American.
                        Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                        Comment


                        • Top, I knew you could be counted on to show up with mustard and salt for your pretzel routine. This is not about Trump.

                          Milley's call in January not authorized
                          https://americanmilitarynews.com/202...should-resign/

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            Top, I knew you could be counted on to show up with mustard and salt for your pretzel routine. This is not about Trump.
                            And I knew you could be counted on to, at best, completely ignore the reason that made this shit show necessary in the first place. It's like you were completely asleep and or blissfully uncaring from 2016 onward.

                            Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            Milley's call in January not authorized
                            https://americanmilitarynews.com/202...should-resign/
                            The Pentagon says otherwise. And given the choice between one of Trump's unconfirmed Secretary sycophant flunkies and the entire DoD, I'll take the DoD.

                            Joint Chiefs Staff Spokesman Col. Dave Butler also released a statement on Wednesday both confirming and justifying Milley’s phone calls with his Chinese counterparts.
                            “His calls with the Chinese and others in October and January were in keeping with these duties and responsibilities conveying reassurance in order to maintain strategic stability,” Butler said, adding that the calls were “staffed, coordinated and communicated with the Department of Defense and the interagency.”
                            Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                            Comment


                            • Paul Ryan spoke to a doctor and extensively researched how to deal with someone with narcissistic personality disorder after Trump won: book

                              Then-House Speaker Paul Ryan started studying how to interact with people with narcissistic personality disorder after Donald Trump won the 2016 election, according to a new book by The Washington Post's Bob Woodward and Robert Costa.

                              Insider obtained an early copy of "Peril," which is set to be released next week.

                              According to the book, Ryan was caught off guard when Trump won the election in an enormous upset over Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. Republicans controlled the House and Senate, and Ryan, realizing that he would have to work with Trump, started researching how to deal with someone who is "amoral and transactional," the book says.

                              A wealthy doctor in New York, who was also a Republican donor, contacted Ryan later and told him, "You need to understand what narcissistic personality disorder is," according to the book.

                              "What?" Ryan asked, at which point the doctor sent the Wisconsin Republican an email detailing his "thoughts on how to best deal with a person with anti-social personality disorder,"
                              Woodward and Costa reported. The email also included links to articles about the topic in The New England Journal of Medicine, and information from the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems, 10th edition.

                              The book said that "Ryan studied them for weeks, convinced Trump had the personality disorder."

                              Trump and Ryan's relationship was fraught with tension throughout the latter's tenure as speaker of the House. Among other things, Ryan butted heads with Trump after he publicly defended the neo-Nazis who sparked a deadly riot in Charlottesville, Virginia in 2017.

                              "We must be clear," Ryan tweeted after the riot. "White supremacy is repulsive. This bigotry is counter to all this country stands for. There can be no moral ambiguity."

                              According to "Peril," Trump called Ryan afterward and blew up at him over the statement, shouting, "You're not in the foxhole with me!"


                              "Are you finished?" Ryan reportedly yelled back. "May I have some time to speak now? You're the president of the United States. You have a moral leadership obligation to get this right and not declare there is a moral equivalency here."

                              But Trump refused to back down, saying, "These people love me. These are my people. I can't backstab the people who support me," according to the book.


                              When Ryan pointed out that there were white supremacists and neo-Nazis in the crowd, Trump conceded, "Well, yeah, there's some bad people. I get that. I'm not for that. I'm against all that. But there's some of those people who are for me. Some of them are good people."

                              The two men also found themselves at odds in early 2018 after Congress sent a $1.3 trillion omnibus package to Trump for his signature. The president wanted to veto the bill and, according to the book, shouted at Ryan during a White House meeting that "this is a terrible deal!"

                              "Who signed off on this piece of shit?" Trump asked, the book said. "This is a piece of shit, a bad fucking deal."

                              Ryan eventually got Trump to sign the bill by dispatching then Defense Secretary James Mattis to the Oval Office, saying, "If you're standing there, he'll do it."
                              ____________

                              Poor Paul Ryan, sure does suck when your party is being led by an amoral transactionist narcissistic sociopath that doesn't think that white supremacy is repulsive.
                              Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                                Top, I knew you could be counted on to show up with mustard and salt for your pretzel routine. This is not about Trump.
                                Oh I love how you reduce this to a supposed "pretzel" routine, as if there isn't a gigantic flaming arrow pointing straight right back at Donald Trump.

                                You want to dissect the symptoms at length without so much as acknowledging the cancerous disease that's the cause of the problem in the first place.

                                But that would means admitting that Trump was at fault here. And we can't have that, now can we. Why don't you just jump right to "IDAF that Trump was so completely unhinged, untrustworthy and power hungry"

                                It'll save us all a LOT of time.
                                Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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