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  • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post


    As to Europe they can screw themselves as far as I am concerned. They bitched when we were in Vietnam constantly saying we should get out. Not saying I disagreed. Now they bitch that we are getting out after 20 years versus 10 in Vietnam. Why this time? Let's say that while Vietnam had no ill effect on them the Taliban might have an effect on them now. Well, ante up. I wonder what the Czech president committed to Afghanistan?
    They're your NATO allies. You can pretty much bet that if the U.K is saying it, CANZUK thinks it as well. They've fought and died under the umbrella of the U.S. military. Now in effect you're saying 'everyone for themselves', because you can't get policy synergy because your CinC can't be assed speaking to foreign governments that spilt blood.

    Ego Numquam

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Chunder View Post

      They're your NATO allies. You can pretty much bet that if the U.K is saying it, CANZUK thinks it as well. They've fought and died under the umbrella of the U.S. military. Now in effect you're saying 'everyone for themselves', because you can't get policy synergy because your CinC can't be assed speaking to foreign governments that spilt blood.
      French pulled their combat troops out in 2012. British pulled theirs out in 2014. Why do we need to consult with them on pulling our troops out?

      If they don't trust us anymore, will the British Parliament give us our USMC F-35 squadron back? The one that makes up the majority of the airwing on HMS Queen Elizabeth

      I notice that they condemned us but not one of them put forth the idea of taking over the mission after we leave
      Last edited by Gun Grape; 27 Aug 21,, 03:00.

      Comment


      • Top, stop jumping sharks please, you are not the Fonz.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
          Top, stop jumping sharks please, you are not the Fonz.
          If you're comfortable with the events of 2020-2021, especially the constant assaults on the democratic processes of this country,, then I envy you your ignorance, it truly must be bliss.
          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

            If you're comfortable with the events of 2020-2021, especially the constant assaults on the democratic processes of this country,, then I envy you your ignorance, it truly must be bliss.
            Who conspired with the Russian's to influence an election and then undermine a duly elected president? Who gave aid and succor to 4 years of political street violence raging across America including an attempted storming of the White House? Whofuled hundreds of riots ending in dozens of deaths? Whose ideology animated a man to try and do a mass assassination of sitting members of Congress? Who literally mobilized for nationwide riots if they lost the election? Which party's governors condemned the old to die in covid infected nursing homes? Who was in power when the IRS was used to silence political foes? Which party is pushing the ideas that citizens don't matter, only group membership does? Which side thinks the death of 40% of all future black citizens since 1973 is a good thing? Man it goes so much deeper than 20-21. You don't want to look at any of that because you are OK with it, if its done by your co-religionists.

            All that aside, posting a Americans are the biggest threat to America on a day when so many service members were blown up is jumping the shark, all of them, one one ski without a boat or a rope. Totally believable.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by zraver View Post

              Who conspired with the Russian's to influence an election and then undermine a duly elected president? Who gave aid and succor to 4 years of political street violence raging across America including an attempted storming of the White House? Whofuled hundreds of riots ending in dozens of deaths? Whose ideology animated a man to try and do a mass assassination of sitting members of Congress? Who literally mobilized for nationwide riots if they lost the election? Which party's governors condemned the old to die in covid infected nursing homes? Who was in power when the IRS was used to silence political foes? Which party is pushing the ideas that citizens don't matter, only group membership does? Which side thinks the death of 40% of all future black citizens since 1973 is a good thing? Man it goes so much deeper than 20-21. You don't want to look at any of that because you are OK with it, if its done by your co-religionists.

              All that aside, posting a Americans are the biggest threat to America on a day when so many service members were blown up is jumping the shark, all of them, one one ski without a boat or a rope. Totally believable.
              A short memory zraver...

              Who perpetuated the lie that the country's first black president was born in Africa and thus not legitimate?
              Who stated that Mexico was sending rapists and murderers into the United States in his opening candidacy remarks?
              Who perpetuated the conspiracy theory, villainized and undermined the nation's bureaucracy and national defense as a 'Deep State' cabal working to undermine his administration?
              Who couldn't say that Nazis were bad in Charlottesville without pointing the finger at those standing up to them?
              Who attacked Gold Star families, and John McCain?
              Who dismissed Covid-19 as a flu and was more concerned with his re-election than a coordinated national response leading to over half a million American deaths, thus costing his re-election?
              Who stood in Helsinki and sided with Vladimir Putin over United States intelligence agencies?
              Who lost a fair election and instead of being a man, conceding and peacefully handing over power- like Crooked Hilary did (and showed up at the inauguration) - perpetuated conspiracy theories he read off Facebook that have laid permanent damage to election trust and democracy in the US?
              Who actually incited a riot after he lost the election and did his best George W Bush impression in sitting and doing nothing as it happened?

              And while we can go on forever with those, let's go back to the treatment Obama got from Republicans. He was called a pussy on Fox News. Shouted down during the State of the Union. Denied a Supreme Court appointment because 'it was too close to an election' - boy did that tune change in 2020. How about the way he was protested?


              The problem I have with Trump supporters is that the victim complex supporters of Trump acquired from him have made their memories start in 2016 and conveniently not before. You act like he never got a fair shake, that Democrats never gave him a chance. You forget birtherism happened years before 2016, deeply offending and pissing off Democrats and Obama supporters. Republicans paralyzed the country for 6 years of the Obama presidency, including actually shutting the government down, and Democrats never forgot or forgave Trump or Republicans for these things. As you said, and I quote "You don't want to look at any of that because you are OK with it". Take your own advice. Why is it that Democrats have to see your side of the story but you refuse to see their's? Why is it that Democrats have to take all the responsibility for today's political climate while Republicans and Trump supporters play victim and point the finger all the time? Who went to the extreme first? You want to meet in the middle? Start taking some responsibility. Actual responsibility. Responsibility like President Joe Biden took for the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by statquo View Post

                A short memory zraver...

                Who perpetuated the lie that the country's first black president was born in Africa and thus not legitimate?
                Hillary Clinton

                Who stated that Mexico was sending rapists and murderers into the United States in his opening candidacy remarks?
                Almost every woman and girl who makes the journey is sexually assaulted along the way. Whose doing it?

                Who perpetuated the conspiracy theory, villainized and undermined the nation's bureaucracy and national defense as a 'Deep State' cabal working to undermine his administration?
                IG report showed mass incompetence, an FBI agent was charged and plead guilty to changing an email to say something 180 degrees from what was originally sent in order to justify a FISA warrant, and there is the still on going and recently reported Durham investigation now empaneling a grand jury.

                Who couldn't say that Nazis were bad in Charlottesville without pointing the finger at those standing up to them?
                Watch the whole speech, he most definitely does condemn the racists

                Who attacked Gold Star families, and John McCain?
                Trump

                Who dismissed Covid-19 as a flu
                You want a whole list of government figures?

                and was more concerned with his re-election than a coordinated national response leading to over half a million American deaths, thus costing his re-election?
                Fauci is on record as saying Trump did everything he was asked to do. He also pushed for stimulus, tried to close the borders, funded a massive vaccine effort and most of the deaths in the first wave were nursing home deaths concentrated in blue states.

                Who stood in Helsinki and sided with Vladimir Putin over United States intelligence agencies?
                And? Have you seen the current POTUS remarks, or the one before Trump, or the one before him? Talk tough at home, smiles and kisses at the summits. Its how the game is played.

                Who lost a fair election
                Not everyone agrees it was fair, Biden won but there were irregularities.

                and instead of being a man, conceding and peacefully handing over power
                He handed over power and departed peacefully

                - like Crooked Hilary did (and showed up at the inauguration) -
                She later recanted

                perpetuated conspiracy theories he read off Facebook that have laid permanent damage to election trust and democracy in the US?
                What do you think has so many people upset with the Left and Deep State? Russia, Russia, Russia all from a dossier paid for by Hillary and the DNV through Perkin's Coei using a British middle man to ask/pay the Russians for made up dirt to fatally undermine a duly elected president.


                Who actually incited a riot after he lost the election and did his best George W Bush impression in sitting and doing nothing as it happened?
                Dissagree that he incited anything.

                And while we can go on forever with those, let's go back to the treatment Obama got from Republicans. He was called a pussy on Fox News. Shouted down during the State of the Union.
                Denied a Supreme Court appointment because 'it was too close to an election' - boy did that tune change in 2020. How about the way he was protested?[/quote]

                McConnell used the Biden Rule.... I still laugh over that.

                Obama brought a lot of that protesting on himself when he started calling people who did not vote for him Clingers and saying the GOP needed to go to the back of the bus, and then the gall to claim there was no corruption when the IRS started muzzling the political speech of his opponents.

                The problem I have with Trump supporters is that the victim complex supporters of Trump acquired from him have made their memories start in 2016 and conveniently not before.
                It goes way back before Trump.

                You act like he never got a fair shake, that Democrats never gave him a chance.
                He didn't, they didn't. GOP presidents don't get fair shakes, look at the spin on Bush v Gore, Gore lsot, every single recount under every single system until finally SCOTUS stepped in and said enough is enough. The Left still claims Gore won.

                You forget birtherism happened years before 2016, deeply offending and pissing off Democrats and Obama supporters.
                Pissed them off so bad they nominated the person who started it to run for president.

                Republicans paralyzed the country for 6 years of the Obama presidency, including actually shutting the government down,
                And? After the way Obamacare was rammed through there was zero chance of bipartisanship. Shutdowns are nothing new BTW.

                and Democrats never forgot or forgave Trump or Republicans for these things.
                And? Like I said it started way before 16. Or don't you remember code pink and all the Bush is a fascist BS. But where it reached a boil was the clingers comment and Obamacare. It started with the Clinton impeachment though. The Dems decided party was more important than right or wrong. Clinton lied under oath to deny an American citizen thier day in court. That is what he was impeached for and the Democrats turned their back on morality and ethics.

                As you said, and I quote "You don't want to look at any of that because you are OK with it". Take your own advice. Why is it that Democrats have to see your side of the story but you refuse to see their's?
                What exactly is their side? That they want my tax dollars to kill babies? That thier political violence is "mostly peaceful"?

                Why is it that Democrats have to take all the responsibility for today's political climate
                See my above answers

                while Republicans and Trump supporters play victim and point the finger all the time?
                Trump playing victim, surely you jest. The rest of it though....

                Who went to the extreme first?
                How far back do you want to go? Civil War too far? Senate bombing? Mass assassination attempt on GOP congressmen? Code Pink? I mean what are the timeline bookends here?

                You want to meet in the middle? Start taking some responsibility. Actual responsibility. Responsibility like President Joe Biden took for the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal.
                I've said all along everyone who breaks the law should be punished. EVERYONE, not just some. I want a one tiered system.

                BTW, Biden has not taken responsibility for the Afghanistan debacle. He is yelling from the roof tops how great the evacuation is, but people will be left behind. Churchill had the right of it, you can't win by retreating. Biden had the intel saying the Afghans would collapse without support. Fine, they had 20 years, that is not my complaint. My complaint is knowing the country was a house of cards he should have pulled our citizens and Afghan allies out first. Ditto for Trump by the way, or more accurately Miller who deliberately kinked up the system costing us months of time to get people out. Biden had a bad hand, but he played it horribly and now wants to claim being 3 cards short of a small straight is a winner.
                Last edited by zraver; 27 Aug 21,, 06:33.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zraver View Post

                  In the South, they are seen as pro-abortion, anti-property rights, anti-gun, pro-taxes for those who don't live on the coasts to enjoy the carve outs for high tax states that used to exist, pro-illegal immigration which directly affects wages in non-tech states and corruption. Life in the South outside our few cities is nothing like the coasts. We like open spaces, doing what we want with our own property and a lower cost of living.

                  We think the unborn are humans with rights even if the courts demand that they not be considered people under the law. And every single time we try to limit the dying of the unborn the Liberals show up screaming and demanding that yes in fact mothers should be allowed to kill their kids.

                  TBM,

                  you still can't reason your way out of a wet sack. You are a hatful bitter little man, a skin thief and a waste of air and those are your good qualities. You support policies that end in misery, just look at the shithole state you are living in. Biggest economy to lowest standard of living gap anywhere in the industrialized world. Your state's schools are jokes, and instead of helping the homeless, you give non-citizens free healthcare violating's the central tenet of good government and the social contract. Yet you think you can moralize to the rest of us oh high and mighty acolyte of failure. Give me a break, instead of trying to diagnose me from 2500 miles away; physician heal thyself
                  Well it is well known that one of your skills is in deflection as so ably displayed here. However, I fail to see how criticizing what state I live in has any bearing whatsoever in any of this. Yet, if that is another one of your skills, maybe I should tell you my alma mater, the state where I was born, and my ancestral home country so you can practice more using that mind you inhabit for what it is worth.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by zraver View Post

                    Hillary Clinton



                    Almost every woman and girl who makes the journey is sexually assaulted along the way. Whose doing it?



                    IG report showed mass incompetence, an FBI agent was charged and plead guilty to changing an email to say something 180 degrees from what was originally sent in order to justify a FISA warrant, and there is the still on going and recently reported Durham investigation now empaneling a grand jury.



                    Watch the whole speech, he most definitely does condemn the racists



                    Trump



                    You want a whole list of government figures?



                    Fauci is on record as saying Trump did everything he was asked to do. He also pushed for stimulus, tried to close the borders, funded a massive vaccine effort and most of the deaths in the first wave were nursing home deaths concentrated in blue states.



                    And? Have you seen the current POTUS remarks, or the one before Trump, or the one before him? Talk tough at home, smiles and kisses at the summits. Its how the game is played.



                    Not everyone agrees it was fair, Biden won but there were irregularities.



                    He handed over power and departed peacefully



                    She later recanted



                    What do you think has so many people upset with the Left and Deep State? Russia, Russia, Russia all from a dossier paid for by Hillary and the DNV through Perkin's Coei using a British middle man to ask/pay the Russians for made up dirt to fatally undermine a duly elected president.




                    Dissagree that he incited anything.




                    McConnell used the Biden Rule.... I still laugh over that.

                    Obama brought a lot of that protesting on himself when he started calling people who did not vote for him Clingers and saying the GOP needed to go to the back of the bus, and then the gall to claim there was no corruption when the IRS started muzzling the political speech of his opponents.



                    It goes way back before Trump.



                    He didn't, they didn't. GOP presidents don't get fair shakes, look at the spin on Bush v Gore, Gore lsot, every single recount under every single system until finally SCOTUS stepped in and said enough is enough. The Left still claims Gore won.



                    Pissed them off so bad they nominated the person who started it to run for president.



                    And? After the way Obamacare was rammed through there was zero chance of bipartisanship. Shutdowns are nothing new BTW.



                    And? Like I said it started way before 16. Or don't you remember code pink and all the Bush is a fascist BS. But where it reached a boil was the clingers comment and Obamacare. It started with the Clinton impeachment though. The Dems decided party was more important than right or wrong. Clinton lied under oath to deny an American citizen thier day in court. That is what he was impeached for and the Democrats turned their back on morality and ethics.



                    What exactly is their side? That they want my tax dollars to kill babies? That thier political violence is "mostly peaceful"?



                    See my above answers



                    Trump playing victim, surely you jest. The rest of it though....



                    How far back do you want to go? Civil War too far? Senate bombing? Mass assassination attempt on GOP congressmen? Code Pink? I mean what are the timeline bookends here?



                    I've said all along everyone who breaks the law should be punished. EVERYONE, not just some. I want a one tiered system.

                    BTW, Biden has not taken responsibility for the Afghanistan debacle. He is yelling from the roof tops how great the evacuation is, but people will be left behind. Churchill had the right of it, you can't win by retreating. Biden had the intel saying the Afghans would collapse without support. Fine, they had 20 years, that is not my complaint. My complaint is knowing the country was a house of cards he should have pulled our citizens and Afghan allies out first. Ditto for Trump by the way, or more accurately Miller who deliberately kinked up the system costing us months of time to get people out. Biden had a bad hand, but he played it horribly and now wants to claim being 3 cards short of a small straight is a winner.
                    Reminds me of this

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	trump lied.jpg
Views:	81
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ID:	1575724


                    Comment


                    • So which of my answers was factually wrong?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                        So which of my answers was factually wrong?
                        Well we can start with your claim that Hillary Clinton started the Birther movement. That's just yet another Trump lie.

                        But ultimately your laundry list of grievances doesn't include "Assaulting the very fabric of the American democratic process" (Which Trump and the Right are guilty of thanks to their non-stop river of lies about the 2020 election and their attempt to overthrow the results of same) or Trump and the Right's non-stop river of lies about COVID, mask wearing and vaccines, which have directly resulted in the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

                        You want to spread things around by pointing at others in the government when it was in fact the President, the one man with the stature, the authority and the bully pulpit that could've jumped on this from the start...but didn't, and instead deflected, downplayed, minimized and outright lied about COVID.

                        Basically what you've got is the usual 'whataboutisms' because you're incapable of defending Trump and the Right in these regards.

                        You've taken me to task for posting that op-ed on a day when 12 American servicemembers were killed in Afghanistan, but you appear utterly unconcerned (except for spreading the blame around) for the record number of COVID deaths in a Right wing stronghold state, that is emblematic of Right wing science denial.

                        Whether you voted for Donald Trump or not, you appear perfectly willing to parrot his lies. Funny how this just keeps coming up time after time.
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                          Well we can start with your claim that Hillary Clinton started the Birther movement. That's just yet another Trump lie.
                          Sydney Blumenthal is HRC dirty tricks man and he started the whole shebang

                          Did Sid Blumenthal really push birtherism? - POLITICOPOLITICOSearchSearchCloseBack ButtonSearch IconFilter Icon

                          But ultimately your laundry list of grievances doesn't include "Assaulting the very fabric of the American democratic process" (Which Trump and the Right are guilty of thanks to their non-stop river of lies about the 2020 election and their attempt to overthrow the results of same)
                          Sigh, not this again. The Left has been assaulting democracy for years. From the whole Trump is not my president becuase of Russia, Russia, Russia to attempting to storm the White House.


                          or Trump and the Right's non-stop river of lies about COVID, mask wearing and vaccines, which have directly resulted in the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.
                          Bullshit and you know it. What else was he supposed to do exactly? What didn't he do? What responsibility to governors have?

                          [quote}You want to spread things around by pointing at others in the government when it was in fact the President, the one man with the stature, the authority and the bully pulpit that could've jumped on this from the start...but didn't, and instead deflected, downplayed, minimized and outright lied about COVID.[/quote]

                          I don't think he did

                          Basically what you've got is the usual 'whataboutisms' because you're incapable of defending Trump and the Right in these regards.
                          I like apples to apples

                          You've taken me to task for posting that op-ed on a day when 12 American servicemembers were killed in Afghanistan, but you appear utterly unconcerned (except for spreading the blame around) for the record number of COVID deaths in a Right wing stronghold state, that is emblematic of Right wing science denial.
                          You really don't want to get into science denial with me. Your co=religionists have gone off the deep end from the unborn are not human, to a man is a woman and can be a mother, to taking property and inflating the money supply will reduce inflation.

                          Whether you voted for Donald Trump or not, you appear perfectly willing to parrot his lies. Funny how this just keeps coming up time after time.
                          You appear totally unhinged and completely biased without a grounding in the actual facts

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            Sydney Blumenthal is HRC dirty tricks man and he started the whole shebang

                            Did Sid Blumenthal really push birtherism? - POLITICOPOLITICOSearchSearchCloseBack ButtonSearch IconFilter Icon
                            From your own link, which you didn't bother to read:

                            "But the real story turns out to be a little more complicated, and does nothing to prove Trump’s argument that Clinton and her campaign “started” the so-called birther controversy."

                            Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            Sigh, not this again. The Left has been assaulting democracy for years. From the whole Trump is not my president becuase of Russia, Russia, Russia to attempting to storm the White House.
                            Yes, this again. And you with the deflection, again. Because January 6th was just a nasty little scuffle to you, nothing more.

                            Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            Bullshit and you know it. What else was he supposed to do exactly? What didn't he do? What responsibility to governors have?
                            More deflection, more spreading the blame around. What was he supposed to do? I can tell what he wasn't supposed to do: Minimize, downplay, deflect and ignore something that he was TOLD was a serious threat. "I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down..." !

                            Or how about slowing down the testing...to keep the reported numbers down "When you do testing to that extent, you’re going to find more people, you’re going to find more cases. So I said to my people, ‘Slow the testing down, please.’”

                            What kind of fucking psychopath does that? And what kind of person defends Trump's actions and inaction? What in the hell is wrong with you?

                            You want to spread things around by pointing at others in the government when it was in fact the President, the one man with the stature, the authority and the bully pulpit that could've jumped on this from the start...but didn't, and instead deflected, downplayed, minimized and outright lied about COVID.
                            Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            I don't think he did
                            Then you haven't paid attention to a word that he said about COVID or you're being deliberately obtuse. Because, once again, In His Own Words:

                            "I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down..."

                            Go ahead. Click on that link. Listen to those words. Trump's words. And then tell me again "I don't think he did". Let's see just how unhinged you are.

                            Seriously, I could BURY you in quotes from Trump and examples of his inaction on COVID. But like any Kool-Aid drinking Trumper, it won't make a dent with you.

                            "I don't think he did"

                            The man almost certainly owes his 2020 defeat to his criminally neglectful handling of COVID (not to imaginary "election irregularities) but you don't think he downplayed it.

                            For fuck's sake...
                            Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            I like apples to apples
                            Sure you do. White House vs Capitol Building. Clearly not apples to to apples, but you're desperate to equate them.

                            Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            You really don't want to get into science denial with me. Your co=religionists have gone off the deep end from the unborn are not human, to a man is a woman and can be a mother, to taking property and inflating the money supply will reduce inflation.
                            Again with the deflection. Again with abortion. Again with the "co-religionist" bullshit. That's all you've got. A truckload of deflection and bullshit.

                            Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            You appear totally unhinged and completely biased without a grounding in the actual facts
                            Uh huh. Tell me more about how you think that Donald Trump didn't downplay COVID. Go on, I'd love it hear it.

                            "Physician", heal thyself.
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                            Comment


                            • Every asset the federal government had was in full gear, industry was changing production to deliver PPE and medical equipment. He followed every recomendation made by Fauci but you would rather use an edited clip about him not wanting to cause a panic when the nation was flipping out and making a run on toilet paper. His actions speak for themselves. Give it a rest.

                              btw, white house v capitol are the same. I want both sides prodecuted. You keep missing that.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                                Every asset the federal government had was in full gear, industry was changing production to deliver PPE and medical equipment. He followed every recomendation made by Fauci but you would rather use an edited clip about him not wanting to cause a panic when the nation was flipping out and making a run on toilet paper. His actions speak for themselves. Give it a rest.

                                btw, white house v capitol are the same. I want both sides prodecuted. You keep missing that.
                                “He followed every recomendation made by Fauci”

                                W T F ?!?
                                Trust me?
                                I'm an economist!

                                Comment

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