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  • #31
    Originally posted by statquo View Post

    Well let's define it. Is it safe to label it autocratic going forward? An autocratic, populist, anti-Democrat, anti-democratic, lower middle class, white, evangelical grievance filled party that is a minority going forward, but on equal footing due to gerrymandering and the electoral college?

    I guess I just struggle between it having some sort of ideology, which it obviously waffles on, but populist, and then just a plain anti-Democrat party, where if it's advocated by Democrats, it's an immediate no, regardless of what it is?
    Don't forget the keystone: corporate socialism.
    Privatize the gains, nationalize the loses.
    Rinse and repeat
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

    Comment


    • #32
      Trump to Pence: Nice Career, Shame if Something Happened to It


      At his rally on the eve of the Georgia runoff election, President Donald Trump took out his frustration on his now familiar comfort piñatas—Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, the U.S. Supreme Court, and RINOs of all stripes—as he struggles to cope with his loss in the 2020 election.

      But on the stage on Monday night in Dalton, Georgia, he added a new one: Vice President Mike Pence.

      “I hope Mike Pence comes through for us,” said Trump, in front of a cheering throng of supporters. “If he doesn’t come through, I won’t like him quite as much.”

      The ostensible purpose of Trump’s trip to Georgia was to boost Sens. Kelly Loeffler (R-GA) and David Perdue (R-GA) as they fight to hold their Senate seats—and the GOP’s Senate majority—in Tuesday’s run-off elections, not to issue a veiled threat to the vice president to somehow block the certification of Joe Biden’s Electoral College victory on Wednesday in the Senate.

      But it was just one moment out of many during a lengthy speech in which the outgoing president delivered his perfunctory lines supporting the GOP senators, but buried them within winding tirades in which he surfaced new lies and old conspiracies about the 2020 election. The focus, as ever, was on him and the election that just passed, not on the pair of GOP senators facing a hugely consequential election that looms on Tuesday.

      The president used his perch in Dalton—possibly his last major political rally before leaving office—to solidify his list of enemies in front of his most dedicated supporters. After openly encouraging a primary challenge to Kemp, his former ally who has declined to overthrow Georgia’s election results, at a rally last month, Trump vowed on Monday to personally campaign against Kemp when he faces re-election next year.

      "I'll be here in about a year and a half campaigning against your governor,” said Trump. “I guarantee that."

      Trump also teed off on Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, a day after the Washington Post reported on a call between the two in which Trump urged Raffensperger to “recalculate” the election results and find 11,000 new votes for himself.

      The nation’s high court was also booed and jeered at the rally, for not entertaining Team Trump’s failed legal effort to overturn the 2020 election. “I’m not happy with the Supreme Court,” complained Trump. “They’re not stepping up to the plate.”

      The president also hinted at some future targets of his ire—some of whom were sitting in the crowd. On two occasions, Trump expressed his frustration that Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT), who has been campaigning for Loeffler and Perdue in Georgia and was in Dalton, did not sign on to a doomed effort from GOP senators to block Biden’s Electoral College victory. On Monday, Lee circulated a letter among senators opposing that effort.

      "I'm a little angry at you today,” Trump to Lee from the stage. Later, he said, “I just want Mike Lee to listen to this, when I’m talking.”

      The president also nodded to a future star of the MAGA movement—newly-minted Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA), a QAnon-embracing conspiracy theorist who represents Dalton. Trump invited her to speak from the podium, where she made a plea for increased turnout.

      “Our district has to show up,” she said. “We are not going to let Georgia go to to radical socialists.” Indeed, Perdue and Loeffler will need massive turnout on Election Day in this deep-red swath of Georgia—which has lagged behind in early voting—in order to win.

      When Trump did talk about the runoff race, he zeroed in on the Democratic candidates, Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock, with attacks as much as he praised the GOP senators.

      “You cannot lose these two people… they are the most respected people,” said Trump of the duo. “The Democrats are trying to steal the White House, you cannot let them… David and Kelly are running against the most extreme liberal candidates in the history of your state, probably in the history of your country.”

      When Loeffler got her moment at the mic, most of her precious time focused on Trump and her election-eve pledge to object to the Electoral College certification on Wednesday—the day after the runoff.

      “That’s right,” she said to cheers. “We’re gonna get this done!”
      ____________

      Sure is a nail-biter, this Georgia runoff. I'd be greatly surprised if the Dems take both seats, given how poorly they did in the general election, but 1 seat is a possibility.

      Also, "your country"? That...sorta implies that Trump isn't an American. Probably meant to say "in your state", but hell, Trump can't even remember which hemisphere his own father was born in, so no biggie
      “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
      ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Red Team View Post

        Aside from their lack of consistent principles, one thing I simply cannot stand is the rampant, irrational, and shameless sense of exceptionalism. "Fuck those lefty activist freeloaders asking for handouts, but give me my 2K because I deserve it."

        There should be no place for this kind of discourse in a functional republic, but I fear this will fester for much longer.
        It's kind of been there forever. From my experience with friends and people who think like that, terms that turn into buzzwords like welfare and socialism implies you're poor, and you're poor because you choose to be poor, so you're just taking free taxpayer money. Change the terms to hand ups, or subsidies, well not only do I deserve it, I'm not doing anything wrong because it's my money in the first place and the government doesn't give me anything else anyways.

        I know a lot of farmers who complain about people on welfare and that it's their choice to be on it because they don't want to work hard. I always remind them that farm subsidies are the same thing, and maybe they should work harder so they don't use them, afterall, it's my money that helps subsidize their operations. They're always disgusted I'd even allude that they don't work hard and that subsidies are anything similar to welfare. Redistribution is redistribution no matter what terms you use for them.

        Comment


        • #34
          Bet this was a fun conversation!

          https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/05/polit...ion/index.html

          Pence informed Trump that he can't block Biden's win


          By Kaitlan Collins and Jim Acosta, CNN


          Updated 10:15 PM ET, Tue January 5, 2021


          (CNN)Vice President Mike Pence on Tuesday told President Donald Trump that he does not have the authority to block certification of President-elect Joe Biden's win when Congress meets to count electoral votes, sources told CNN.

          Trump, who already had turned up the pressure on Pence to steal the election, warned him that it would be politically "damaging" for Pence to refuse to block certification, according to a source familiar with the conversation.
          Pence gently informed Trump during the meeting that the power doesn't exist for him to derail the process, the source added.
          The vice president went on to tell Trump there are outliers saying that the authority exists, but Pence has been told by the White House Counsel's Office he doesn't have that authority, according to this source who was briefed on the conversation. The meeting at the White House came after Pence met with the Senate parliamentarian earlier this week to go over his role in the proceedings.The New York Times was first to report on Pence's message to the President.
          In a statement released through his campaign, the President disputed the story.
          "The New York Times report regarding comments Vice President Pence supposedly made to me today is fake news. He never said that. The Vice President and I are in total agreement that the Vice President has the power to act," Trump said.
          The President is now angry with Pence following their meeting, a source close to the White House said. Trump may "lash out" at his vice president on Wednesday morning during a speech at a rally staged to support the President's attempts to overturn the election, which is taking place near the White House grounds.
          "I think he will lash out pretty quickly" at Pence, the source said of Trump's speech. White House officials say Trump will speak at the Ellipse 11 a.m. ET Wednesday, just as Pence is set to preside over the counting of the electoral votes.
          Sources told CNN that the vice president is expected to make statements supportive of Trump's efforts to contest the results while baselessly alleging the results are fraudulent.
          A senior Trump adviser added Pence could take on a more aggressive posture than what's been anticipated and said the vice president is likely to avoid an overly robotic performance that would anger Trump and his political base.
          "He's not going to be a wallflower," the adviser said.
          Pence left the White House at about 8 p.m. ET Tuesday, signaling he won't watch the returns from the Georgia US Senate runoff races with Trump.
          The absence of a viewing party may be more in line with the current state of their relationship, given Trump's building frustration with Pence over his role -- or lack of -- in Wednesday's proceedings. Pence and Trump dined together earlier Tuesday as officials are bracing themselves for Trump's reaction to the congressional certification.
          The adviser still said it's unlikely Pence will veer from his constitutional role during the proceedings and attempt to tilt the election toward Trump, something the vice president cannot do even if he tried.
          "He might say he doesn't have the power to do certain things," the adviser said, anticipating that Pence is expected to explain the constitution allows him to only go so far in channeling Trump's feelings about the election.
          In the meantime, a source close to Senate GOP leadership and familiar with the thinking inside Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's orbit said the prevailing view is that Pence's role is "ceremonial" and nothing more.
          Trump has repeatedly raised with his faithful vice president the notion he could delay or obstruct the Electoral College certification, people familiar with the conversations say, setting up a test of Pence's loyalty at the culmination of his four years of service.
          Trump, based on arguments from a fringe set of lawyers and certain White House officials, has argued that instead of simply acting in his constitutionally prescribed pro forma role, Pence could delay the certification beyond Wednesday and ultimately force the question of who won the election to either the House of Representatives or the Supreme Court.
          "Let them sue," has been the message from the group to Trump, leading him to believe he could again end up at the Supreme Court.
          Trump has appeared undeterred, and on Tuesday made his desires known explicitly on Twitter.
          "The Vice President has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors," Trump declared falsely, lending credence to an erroneous theory that Pence can overturn the results of the election during Wednesday's tally of Electoral College votes and again pressuring his top lieutenant to act outside constitutional bounds.
          Trump's Twitter message came the morning after he riled up a crowd of supporters in Georgia using Pence's upcoming engagement on the Senate floor."I hope Mike Pence comes through for us, I have to tell you," Trump said Monday night during a political rally in Georgia, where his public arm-twisting was met with cheers. "Of course, if he doesn't come through, I won't like him as much."
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #35
            Ooo, Eric Trump acts tough. I wonder if that impresses his wife making him look manly?

            Eric Trump just threatened every Republican member of Congress over today's vote


            (CNN)In case there was any doubt that President Donald Trump and his allies see Wednesday's votes in Congress as a pure loyalty test, Eric Trump cleared that up with a single tweet Tuesday night.

            "I will personally work to defeat every single Republican Senator / Congressman who doesn't stand up against this fraud - they will be primaried in their next election and they will lose," tweeted the son of the 45th president of the United States.

            Eric Trump's tweet is in keeping with what has been coming out of his father's political account for weeks now: Vote to object to the Electoral College results on Wednesday (with no proof of any wrongdoing!) -- or else.

            "The 'Surrender Caucus' within the Republican Party will go down in infamy as weak and ineffective 'guardians' of our Nation, who were willing to accept the certification of fraudulent presidential numbers!" President Trump tweeted earlier this week.

            Add to that Donald Trump, Jr., who reminded Republican members of Congress during a rally Wednesday morning that in the upcoming vote, they can choose to be a "hero" or a "zero." "The choice is yours, but we are all watching," Trump Jr. said to cheers from the crowd gathered in Washington.

            Don't gloss over what is happening here. The President of the United States -- and his sons! -- are openly threatening sitting Republican members of Congress with political opposition. And the threat revolves around a totally and completely debunked notion: That the Electoral College votes, which have already been certified in all 50 states, are somehow tainted or wrong.

            The choice, then, before Republican senators and House members on Wednesday is simple: Do you vote with the facts (and the Constitution!) or with a President who won't be president in two-ish weeks? Or, put another way: Will you vote on principle or out of fear?

            The practical effect of so baldly and openly threatening members of Congress is that, after today's vote, you will likely have two Republican parties: The Trump dead-enders and, well, everyone else.

            And to be clear, the latter group is by no means small! A quarter of Republican senators have said publicly that they plan to object to the Electoral College results today and more than 140 House members have said the same.

            Today's vote plus Trumps' open threat presage a potentially disastrous next several years for Republicans, in which the two Republican parties battle for supremacy in a series of contentious primaries, opening the door for more Democratic gains.

            Trump himself is already encouraging just that scenario.

            "I hope to see the great Governor of South Dakota @KristiNoem run against RINO @SenJohnThune in the upcoming 2022 Primary," Trump tweeted on January 1. "She would do a fantastic job in the U.S. Senate, but if not Kristi, others are already lining up. South Dakota wants strong leadership, NOW!"

            If Trump is willing to publicly court a primary challenge to Thune -- a solidly conservative vote and the No. 2 ranking Republican in the Senate -- what would stop him from doing the same with, say, Sens. Lisa Murkowski (Alaska), Roy Blunt (Missouri) and Jerry Moran (Kansas) who are all a) up for reelection in 2022 and b) planning to vote against the Electoral College objection?

            The answer is that nothing would -- or will -- stop him.

            For those Republicans who hope that Trump will simply lose interest in politics once he is no longer in office and not be willing to go through with his threats of primarying those who crossed him, let's remember a few things:

            1) Trump is absolutely desperate to stay in the spotlight. That's for both political reasons (preserving the possibility of running for president again in 2024) and personal ones (he needs to make money to pay off hundreds of millions of personally-guaranteed loans and being relevant is the only way to do that.)

            2) Trump is vengeful. If there's one defining Trump character trait it's his desire to punish people he perceives as having wronged him. Trump is so dug in on the idea that he not only won the election but did so in a "landslide" that he will choose to see every vote refusing to object to the Electoral College count as a betrayal. And he will want to pay each and every one of them back. "I hope the Democrats, and even more importantly, the weak and ineffective RINO section of the Republican Party, are looking at the thousands of people pouring into D.C.," Trump tweeted on Tuesday night, tagging Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell as well as Sen. John Cornyn of Texas and Thune. "They won't stand for a landslide election victory to be stolen."

            Add it all up and you get this: The fracturing of the Republican Party will be formalized today. And Donald Trump will spend the next two years trying to beat every Republican who supposedly betrayed him by voting to uphold democracy.


            https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/polit...022/index.html

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
              Ooo, Eric Trump acts tough. I wonder if that impresses his wife making him look manly?

              Eric Trump just threatened every Republican member of Congress over today's vote
              Qusay the Wonder Dummy probably buys into that whole macho MAGA thing that portrays his dad as a buff prize fighter or Rambo.
              “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
              ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

              Comment


              • #37
                Congrats to the democrats in Georgia.

                Does Stacey Abrams deserve alot credit?

                Great news for the 2000 dollar cheques surely as the dems will get some republicans support in the senate.

                Am I correct democrats still cant deliver a sweeping legislative agenda due to the filibuster? How big is the result today beyond smoother admin appointments, 2000 dollar cheques and the courts?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Red Team View Post

                  Aside from their lack of consistent principles, one thing I simply cannot stand is the rampant, irrational, and shameless sense of exceptionalism. "Fuck those lefty activist freeloaders asking for handouts, but give me my 2K because I deserve it."

                  There should be no place for this kind of discourse in a functional republic, but I fear this will fester for much longer.
                  I liked this post but I actually think it will be fascinating watching the long term effects among the electorate that the cheques can have on perception of welfare systems. It may be subtle yet a significant postiive. It may help shift the republican base in a postiive direction. Ofcourse many other big problems have to be solved first that will. could and might crowd out this postive. I hope this effect and can outlive those.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    McConnell essentially just made a speech arguing that America should be a democratic republic. And that position is dividing his party.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DOR View Post

                      Don't forget the keystone: corporate socialism.
                      Privatize the gains, nationalize the loses.
                      Rinse and repeat
                      That really was a big theme of 2020. Corporate america will need a pretty epic selective memory to forget it, even companies that didnt take cash benefited as it propped up the whole sytem, as did banks, that apparently didnt manage their loans to businesses properly, sounds like they did some dodgy methods similar to the 2007 crises in the domestic property sector but got away with it here becasue so much liquidity was pumped into the system the whole thing didnt cascade.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                        Congrats to the democrats in Georgia.

                        Does Stacey Abrams deserve alot credit?

                        Great news for the 2000 dollar cheques surely as the dems will get some republicans support in the senate.

                        Am I correct democrats still cant deliver a sweeping legislative agenda due to the filibuster? How big is the result today beyond smoother admin appointments, 2000 dollar cheques and the courts?

                        Stacey Adams deserves ALL the credit. She chose not to run for Senate in order to organize this effort. She is going after Kemp in 2022.


                        A simple majority vote can do away with the filibuster.

                        And there is a LOT that can be done through the budgetary process...pretty arcane but it can bypass the filibuster and was used by McConnell.

                        Stay tuned...
                        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                        Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          How hard was it to launch a simple investigation on dead people voting? Sounded pretty reasonable!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by popillol View Post
                            How hard was it to launch a simple investigation on dead people voting? Sounded pretty reasonable!
                            These are conspiracy theorists. They won't believe the investigation if it doesn't come out the way they want it. And once dead people voted is disproven, they'll move onto 'ballot dumping', and then 'ballot shredding', Dominion machines, Venezuela, China, George Soros, Bill Gates, and blah blah blah and they'll be asking for a simple investigation into this and that. At what point does everyone else, the majority of the country, get to stop having to defend the country's institutions?
                            Last edited by statquo; 06 Jan 21,, 22:21.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by statquo View Post

                              These are conspiracy theorists. They won't believe the investigation if it doesn't come out the way they want it. And once dead people voted is disproven, they'll move onto 'ballot dumping', and then 'ballot shredding', Dominion machines, Venezuela, China, George Soros, Bill Gates, and blah blah blah and they'll be asking for a simple investigation into this and that. At what point does everyone else, the majority of the country, get to stop having to defend the country's institutions?
                              And then they will loose legitimacy. Right now, it is more of a "cover up". Would have taken out the steam because this is verifiable. Even the signatures don't match and its simple audit in front of observers not done in many and you are talking of conspiracy? Lol!

                              How about having both party's observers while counting? Or that comes under "You are RACIST for asking this" now?
                              Last edited by popillol; 06 Jan 21,, 22:26.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                                Click image for larger version

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                                Makes me sick

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