Compare the divide: 1960s-70s to modern time

[statquo]

How does the national divide of then, maybe the last time the US seemed to be coming apart at the seams, compare to today's divide?

There is some parallels today, but the insertion of social media seems to have made reality itself politicized. Obviously there was no pandemic in the 60s, like there is no Vietnam War today.

Does anyone here have any first hand experience of the past era? I'd really like to hear your thoughts.

[DOR]

Seems like the logical place for this

Budgeting for Federal Investment

April 15, 2021 - Congressional Budget Office Report

This report examines approaches to budgeting that would distinguish expenditures for investment in physical capital, education, and research and development from other expenditures.

Federal investments can provide long-term benefits and can spur economic growth. The federal budget records expenses for investment projects up front, not over the project’s lifetime of use. Because of that mismatch between when costs are recorded and when benefits occur, investment projects may seem expensive relative to other government expenditures, and the large amounts of up-front funding required for some types of investments can make it difficult to fund them within the constraints of the budget process.

The economic benefits of increasing capital spending would depend on how well the additional funds were targeted to high-value projects and on the extent to which they displaced spending that would otherwise be undertaken by the private sector or by state and local governments. However, among competing uses of federal resources, more federal investment might not be the most warranted or desirable option.

Federal Capital Investment: Percent share of GDP
_ _ _ _ _ _ _Total _ _ Defense _ _ Non-Defense

1963-72 _ _5.6% _ _ _3.2% _ _ _ _ _ 2.3%

1973-82 _ _4.1% _ _ _1.7% _ _ _ _ _ 2.4%

1983-92 _ _4.0% _ _ _2.4% _ _ _ _ _ 1.7%

1993-02 _ _2.8% _ _ _1.2% _ _ _ _ _ 1.6%

2003-12 _ _3.2% _ _ _1.3% _ _ _ _ _ 1.9%

2013-19 _ _2.6% _ _ _1.0% _ _ _ _ _ 1.6%


Federal Capital Investment: Percent share of Total Federal Outlay
_ _ _ _ _ _ _Total _ _ Defense _ _ Non-Defense

1963-72 _ _31.0% _ _ _18.0% _ _ _ _ _ 13.0%

1973-82 _ _20.6% _ _ __8.7% _ _ _ _ _ 11.9%

1983-92 _ _18.7% _ _ _11.0% _ _ _ _ _ _7.7%

1993-02 _ _14.8% _ _ __6.2% _ _ _ _ _ _8.6%

2003-12 _ _15.4% _ _ __6.4% _ _ _ _ _ _9.0%

2013-19 _ _12.7% _ _ __5.0% _ _ _ _ _ _7.7%




https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56900

[tbm3fan]

So you are asking us (me) what it was like in the 60s as far as a divide. Well I know I started to pay attention to things in 1965 courtesy Vietnam. I wasn't 13 until December 1965 but was an avid newspaper reader. The big thing in 65 was mainly Civil Rights I recall. That divide was mainly racists vs the side of equal rights. Clearly still not there and it is 56 years later. Vietnam moved up onto my daily radar in 1966 and stayed there as I turned 14, 15, 16, 17, and then 18. Till Tet much of America backed Vietnam and all those college students were just dope loving hippies. I recall Mario Salvio and the Free Speech movement at Berkeley in 1966 and him wearing a tie. He was right as the Cal Admin was pretty heavy handed with what students could do. Of course, Reagan and Meese made names for themselves by going after these hippies.

I remember Tet and Walter Cronkite coming out and questioning the wisdom of Vietnam. That shook the establishment some. Public opinion began to slowly shift at the point. I remember the LBJ speech and now HH running. I remember the Kent State shootings and all the protests afterwards because of what was going on secretly in Cambodia. Public opinion shifted more.

The two most obvious things missing in the 60s is the economic and immigration issues. It was only Vietnam and by the time of Nixon's second term most Americans I believe wanted out. There was no hatred involved and no politician stooped that low. The Republican Party of the day is now dead and long gone. Today a Party using the same name, uses hate and fear, two powerful emotions, to drive their message home and drive people apart into enemy camps. Nothing in their rhetoric comes close to working together for the benefit of the country. It is basically their way or the highway for every one else. That was not how things were in the 1960s-1970s. LOL, Republican Party today would consider Nixon to be a leftist with Reagan not too far behind.

[Albany Rifles]

As I am a few years younger than TBM3 I'll add a few things...

Pandemic: You forget about the Hong Kong Flu. I know I was deathly sick for 4 weeks at Christmas of 1968. It had a huge impact globally, much of it in retrospect as news caught up with the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

Vietnam was front and center to me for several reasons, not the least of which having an older brother who turned 18 in 1969. But I also grew up on college campus in Buffalo and Washington, DC and saw much of the campus unrest with my own eyes. I think I got my first whiff of teargas in 1969. We moved to DC in summer 1970 and I was in high school then. We were a politically active family so we marched...A LOT. And DC was where I first learned about racial unrest...mostly from my classmates. I learned about the 14th Street Corridor in DC from a friend who grew up and lived on 12th Street.

As I have said elsewhere, my Dad ended up persona non grata from the Nixon Administration...only to end up as an SES in the Ford Administration.

And I saw the economic crashes of the 1970s first hand....my Dad had 2 different colleges close on him where he was President because the Catholic order of nuns in each case got out of higher education due to the economy. Further, when I went to college in West Virginia, I saw the coal mines closing and the steel mills of metro Pittsburgh all closing as well.

Keep in mind this was also time of massive change much like today...white flight from cities to suburbs, migration from an Industrial to Service economy, the falling of the power of unions and a rise in the War On Drugs which has to this day more negatively impacted neighborhoods of color than the white suburbs.

[tbm3fan]

Economically, I believe what AR mentions would be a recession as those jobs that disappeared did not go over to China or go to illegal immigrants taking them. Those bogey men come later.

Again looking back I know many would say the 50s was the heyday for America in lots of ways. It was really the heyday for white males. Come the 60s social issues suppressed in the 50s started to pop up. Vietnam, in a way, nurtured some but at the same time sucked all the wind out because Vietnam was so immediate. Once ended social issues popped up all over the place and they still haven't been totally settled and accepted. There are those who yearn for the good old days meaning you weren't seen and you weren't heard whether black, brown, Asian, or woman.

[DOR]

Well into the 1960s and even the 1970s, Catholics and Jews were regularly denied admission to some country clubs, and for women, right up to the end of the century. When the majority of the workforce is actively discriminated against, those who are not have more than their share of opportunities and the spoils thereof.

[Albany Rifles]

In 1976 in college a girl walked out on a date with me when she found out I was Catholic.

1976.

[Officer of Engineers]

In 1976 in college a girl walked out on a date with me when she found out I was Catholic.

1976.

You dodged a future ex-wife.

[tbm3fan]

In 1976 in college a girl walked out on a date with me when she found out I was Catholic.

1976.

Seriously? I guess the divide between the West Coast and the East Coast was even bigger than I thought when I arrived in 1966 in the West.

[Albany Rifles]

Seriously? I guess the divide between the West Coast and the East Coast was even bigger than I thought when I arrived in 1966 in the West.

It was at West Virginia University.

Still some deep seated anti-Catholic bigotry there.

Surprising considering the large number of Italians in the area that were..."connected".

Went to a few weddings there straight out of The Godfather.

[statquo]

Keep in mind this was also time of massive change much like today...white flight from cities to suburbs, migration from an Industrial to Service economy, the falling of the power of unions and a rise in the War On Drugs which has to this day more negatively impacted neighborhoods of color than the white suburbs.

I feel like prior to the 60s and 70s, people's attitudes in government drastically changed as well. It seems Vietnam changed everyone from believing and trusting government to not trusting it at all, not solely, but especially after the Pentagon Papers were published.

Did people hate each other as much during this period though? AR mentioned personal experience with bigotry, but was their hatred based around political beliefs to any level as today?

[tbm3fan]

Did people hate each other as much during this period though? AR mentioned personal experience with bigotry, but was their hatred based around political beliefs to any level as today?

No...


Edit: Thinking on it I would say one whose hatred was political beliefs was Mayor Daley.

[DOR]

Seriously? I guess the divide between the West Coast and the East Coast was even bigger than I thought when I arrived in 1966 in the West.

My wife never fails to remind me that I went to the Harvard of the West Coast, and I agree, and then remind her that she went to the Berkeley of the East Coast ...

[DOR]

In case you missed it … Congressional Budget Office analysis--

An Analysis of the Navy’s December 2020 Shipbuilding Plan

April 22, 2021

CBO estimates that the total shipbuilding budget would average $34 billion per year, 10 percent more than the Navy estimates. The Navy’s average shipbuilding budget would be almost 50 percent larger, on average, than those of recent years.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57091




Projected Acquisition Costs for the Army’s Ground Combat Vehicles

April 1, 2021

This report provides CBO’s projections of the Army’s costs to acquire tanks and other ground combat vehicles through 2050. On the basis of the Army’s plans, those costs are projected to average about $5 billion annually.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57085




The Capacity of the Navy’s Shipyards to Maintain Its Submarines

March 25, 2021

The Navy’s shipyards have experienced significant delays in completing maintenance on submarines. In this report, CBO projects that required maintenance will continue to exceed the shipyards’ capacity and examines options to reduce delays.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57026

[Officer of Engineers]

No...

A lot of Vietnam vets would disagree.