Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Compare the divide: 1960s-70s to modern time

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    A lot of Vietnam vets would disagree.
    He asked about "hatred" which I didn't see. I saw those who didn't agree with hippies and even that changed over the 9 years in Vietnam as per a Cobra pilot in '72 who was damn glad we got out.

    Comment


    • #17
      https://www.history.com/news/vietnam...rans-treatment
      Chimo

      Comment


      • #18
        Colonel,

        While there is no doubt there was a strong anti-war feeling in America, there was not widespread hatred.

        Many people's reactions were against the war...the flipping off of the bus of the wounded was about the uniform and the name on the bus.

        Pretty much once we got out of Vietnam the attitudes towards individuals evaporated.

        The attitude in the American populace was towards their government...especially in the wake of Vietnam & Watergate.

        What I found amazing how quickly those attitudes evaporated come the last half of 1975 as moved into our Bicentennial...then is was we all loved each other...until the economy went into the tank in 77 and then it was doo and despair again.

        Living through that time was exhausting for sure.
        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
        Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
          he flipping off of the bus of the wounded was about the uniform and the name on the bus.
          The vets would say otherwise. It's impossible not to take it personal when you offer a peace gesture and got a middle finger in return, especially when you've personally bled for your country. The vets certainly did not felt loved nor respected when they returned. Like the piece said, the vets were not asking for a parade but basic human dignity. They were denied that.
          Chimo

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            The vets would say otherwise. It's impossible not to take it personal when you offer a peace gesture and got a middle finger in return, especially when you've personally bled for your country. The vets certainly did not felt loved nor respected when they returned. Like the piece said, the vets were not asking for a parade but basic human dignity. They were denied that.
            Colonel,

            I would say...some vets.

            There were massive swaths of this country where that was not the response the returning vets received.

            The instance of the Marine going to Chelsea Naval Hospital...my one cousin in Boston who returned from the Navy, in uniform, at the exact same suffered no issues.

            Same with my Marine cousin in Quincy.

            And how do we know who the person flipping the bird was...they could have been a veteran who hated the military. At that time and place a real possibility.

            Parades were held in large chunks of this county.

            The poor treatment of vets was no where near as wide spread nor as negative as is popularly thought. The example given in the article about the VA is a valid issue and one which took almost a generation to fight and win. Many of the same issues exist with the VA today.

            And History Channel is a lousy source for historical viewpoints. This is the same network which has alien autopsies and Hitler ghost stories. It is a crap network...has been for years.
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #21
              I so stand corrected. My only recollection with the History Channel was when they first started broadcasting before I moved out to the rural area. I cut down my TV a lot due to the high cost of satellite reception back then. Didn't know they fell that far into the rabbit hole
              Chimo

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                I so stand corrected. My only recollection with the History Channel was when they first started broadcasting before I moved out to the rural area. I cut down my TV a lot due to the high cost of satellite reception back then. Didn't know they fell that far into the rabbit hole
                History Channel was the gold standard at one time. Same with A&E.

                They are now HORRIBLE....unwatchable. They did produce a very good 3 part biography of US Grant this year...here's hope they have pulled out of the dive.
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #23
                  If you want to a quick and dirty comparison of the partisanship, you can try thinking of how difficult it would be for a presidential candidate to get 60% of the vote now. That happened 64 and 72, but it hasn't happened in the current political environment. Congressional majorities are nonexistent compared to that era, and bi-partisanship on bills similar to the Great Society is essentially unthinkable.

                  Rather uncharitable way of comparing the eras, though.
                  "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                    If you want to a quick and dirty comparison of the partisanship, you can try thinking of how difficult it would be for a presidential candidate to get 60% of the vote now. That happened 64 and 72, but it hasn't happened in the current political environment. Congressional majorities are nonexistent compared to that era, and bi-partisanship on bills similar to the Great Society is essentially unthinkable.

                    Rather uncharitable way of comparing the eras, though.
                    As many will recall, the popular vote still doesn't count for a bucket of warm spit in American politics.
                    Presidents who did not receive at least 60% of the electoral vote include He Who Should Not Be Named, GW Bush (twice), Jimmy Carter, Nixon ('68), and JFK.

                    Trust me?
                    I'm an economist!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      the political sorting has been so complete that there is little political incentive for bipartisanship, especially for the GOP.

                      in any case, one thing to note: bipartisanship =/= better policy.

                      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by astralis View Post
                        the political sorting has been so complete that there is little political incentive for bipartisanship, especially for the GOP.

                        in any case, one thing to note: bipartisanship =/= better policy.
                        bipartisanship =/= weakness

                        I don't even know how you can overcome that line of thinking without overhauling the electoral system. Politicians are gearing up for their next election cycle the moment an election is over. As you said, there's no incentive to work bipartisan. And of course that's fed by 24/7 media, so that needs a change as well. Tough situation.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by statquo View Post

                          bipartisanship =/= weakness

                          I don't even know how you can overcome that line of thinking without overhauling the electoral system. Politicians are gearing up for their next election cycle the moment an election is over. As you said, there's no incentive to work bipartisan. And of course that's fed by 24/7 media, so that needs a change as well. Tough situation.
                          I tell you how....overturn Citizen's United and get dark money out of politics.
                          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                          Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I don't even know how you can overcome that line of thinking without overhauling the electoral system. Politicians are gearing up for their next election cycle the moment an election is over. As you said, there's no incentive to work bipartisan. And of course that's fed by 24/7 media, so that needs a change as well. Tough situation.
                            ranked choice voting would help, as would independent map drawers, etc.

                            i'd actually argue that these days the media is not the primary driver anymore. look at the people fleeing Fox News for OANN and Newsmax. it's self-affirmation masquerading as news sources.
                            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by statquo View Post

                              bipartisanship =/= weakness

                              I don't even know how you can overcome that line of thinking without overhauling the electoral system. Politicians are gearing up for their next election cycle the moment an election is over. As you said, there's no incentive to work bipartisan. And of course that's fed by 24/7 media, so that needs a change as well. Tough situation.
                              The post-war era is an entirely different beast from the current era. The parties had a lot more overlap. Congressional elections were much less nationalized. The Parties were comparatively stronger. There was more pork to buy votes. Ike was extremely popular, and LBJ was extremely effective. A Democratic majority in both Houses was almost a given.

                              Also, the US had just gotten out of a World War and was in a Cold War. The lack of an external enemy probably has a major factor in the US indulging in extreme partisanship.

                              You are not going to put the genie back in the bottle on media or Facebook or anything else. Might as well try to un-invent the printing press.
                              "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X