Tier IIA Safehouse

[Gun Grape]

back when I was stationed at Ft Sill Ok, I kept a couple of sleeping bags, a portable propane stove, canteen cup and 2 MREs in the trunk of my car. Especially when we would make trips to OKC. Most of the locals didn't, I think my advantage was that I wasn't born or raised there. I'm a Florida guy, so I respected cold weather more than the people that had been around it all the time. They get complacent. Just like people from Fl get complacent about hurricanes.

Maybe the thing that stuck was that The first time I went out on a shoot as an instructor the weather went to hell real quick. It was in Oct. In the AM when we rolled out, it was warm enough for nothing but cammies. No thermals or field jacket. By 3PM the base was shut down because we had over a foot of snow on the ground. This worm weather boy saw just how quick it can get ugly. And planned appropriately

[SteveDaPirate]

Ice storms and blizzards show you just how many people are not prepared to even get home, let alone ride out a major weather event.

Every winter I am amazed at how many people fail to throw even basic items in their vehicles. It really isn't that hard to toss some old hats/coats/gloves, boots, water, and snacks into your car. The odds pretty decent that at some point you will get stuck and have to spend the night in your car or hike out. Being stuck in a snow drift or off of the road already sucks, why would you want to add dehydration and hypothermia to that situation?!

The worst offender I see is the lack of water. For some reason people assume that you don't need water in cold weather. Guess what? When you are exerting yourself hiking though waist deep snow, digging your truck out, or pushing cars up hills you get dehydrated pretty damn fast!

[zraver]

Ice storms and blizzards show you just how many people are not prepared to even get home, let alone ride out a major weather event.

[DonBelt]

We keep a list of people dependent on oxygen concentrators and other powered medical devices so that we can check on them in an emergency. We will encourage them to go to the shelter area we set up, but if they won't we bring them O2. We get ice storms besides blizzards and hurricanes and the ice storms tend to be the worst. We were without power one year for almost 2 weeks. Not Katrina level stuff, but you see what gives out quickly.

[zraver]

We also check shelters for access. For example schools... generally wheel chair accessible, but not if only the hallways are being used for sheltering. Refrigeration for insulin, handi-capped stalls, privacy, counseling etc. Outside of rescue work, I do disaster relief and am pretty much on call for disaster events that affect the disabled for a larger national charity. So for hurricanes we go in, try and get the disabled to ada compliant shelters (a lot of special needs shelters wont accept patients unless they have their own care giver with them), provide care where we can, coordinate needs up the chain and then transition straight into relief work.

In the shelter once winds hit 50mph, its lock down time. No ambulances will run. But hurricanes also have massive pressure changes and this can induce labor... My disaster bag includes birthing kits. It also means you need to identify the soft spots like a diabetic who evacuated without their insulin quick and take corrective action before the shtf. On the plus side, even just a few emergency workers other than cops being present and available has a great calming affect inside the shelter itself. If people know that there is someone there to look after them they tend to stay calmer. Even if you're not a local.

[Gun Grape]

That's what happened with Katrina- many elderly and disabled left at assisted living centers with no one to evacuate of care for them. People forget the caregivers are workers and workers don't always show up when the weather is bad. Particularly if they are fleeing with their own families.

One of the other things that people don't realize is that in many States you cannot force someone to evacuate. In other States you can only do it when a Governor authorizes it. For political reasons few Governors are going to force mandatory evacuations 3-5 days out in the projected path of a Hurricane. Thats one of those political balls of fire that is never popular, Personal rights, property rights, liability of the property when you make someone leave, the list goes on and on.

I know that in Florida people in assisted living/nursing homes are different than people in the hospital. Patients can be forced to evacuate "We are taking Billy Bob in ICU and evacuating him to a hospital in Atlanta".

Assisted living/nursing homes have residents. Just like someone in their own home/apt. Residents have rights. The manager of the assisted living facility can call the county EOC and ask for transportation for the residents to go to a local shelter. County workers are dispatched with vehicles, Those that want to go get on the bus and off they go. If someone refuses then the county worker has no choice but to leave them. Or, call a LEO who may be able to arrest them for violation of a mandatory evac order. Normally a 3d Deg misdemeanor. But LEOs are usually a little bit busy and the people that refuse are told that they are on their own.


We run into this lots of times with old people that have spent their lives here.

And quite frankly thats when teams like Zravers come in. The county has a limited number of people and a lot to do. They have other people to evacuate and other things to get prepared. Zraver, as an outside agency, goes to the EOC and they give him the "Check on and give these people one more chance".

[Tamara]

That's what happened with Katrina- many elderly and disabled left at assisted living centers with no one to evacuate of care for them. People forget the caregivers are workers and workers don't always show up when the weather is bad. Particularly if they are fleeing with their own families.

Well, A and B.......and C.

A: That's a background concern in the security field that a lot of managers don't think about until someone points it out to them.

B: When my mother was alive and being taken care of at home by caretakers, I went through lots of measures and research in case utility services were interrupted to her home. Five gallon coolers to her place (Mom when she was well would say in case of emergency, they had plenty of water in the two hot water tanks her place had), water safe tablets, water safe taste good tablets, emergency phones, and so forth. When Texas was going through rolling blackouts, I was seriously considering having an emergency generator put in at her house. Didn't because the duration of perceived emergency didn't match having an automated generator in place with necessary exhaust vents since her caretakers were suppose to be taking care of her and not out trying to get a generator started.

But a leaning of the consideration was that if things became so bad that the caretakers focus was to their families, then to have the families move in, stay at Mom's place for a while. Or grab Mom, grab the emergency phones, the first aid kits, and whatever else, and bug out in her station wagon. Call it however one might, but make Mom a very attractive part of the deal whatever the decision.

Now all this thinking, planning, doing wasn't perfect. I was going through life trying to find answers as I could.

C. Fortunately, I never had to put all this to the test further than the caretaker grabbing the emergency phone when Mom had to take an ambulance to the hospital.

But looking at this piece of history and then considering classical history of the serfs retreating inside the Lord castle's walls in the event of peril, maybe that's what a Type IIa should be like. A safe place so when things get very rough, friends and family come to you, knowing there's a roof to sleep under, water to drink, lentils to eat.

[DonBelt]

That's what happened with Katrina- many elderly and disabled left at assisted living centers with no one to evacuate of care for them. People forget the caregivers are workers and workers don't always show up when the weather is bad. Particularly if they are fleeing with their own families.

[zraver]

If I find myself in the path of a Cat 3 or above Hurricane, I evacuate. Anyone that doesn't is a damn fool....I kick on the gen and well then get to work digging the neighborhood out.

Some people can't... One of the things I've done is go into a hurricane's paths ahead of the storm and try and help the mobility impaired get to and then care for them at a shelter. Its also a reason why I am a big fan of smart 911. People tend to bail on the disabled and elderly and knowing where they are can make it a lot easier to get them out and to the appropriate shelter.

[Tamara]

I think part of the reason this thread is all over the place is that we aren't sure what you are trying to prepare your new house for.

• Riding out a Tornado/Hurricane?
• Flood lasting a week or two?
• Snowed in all winter?
• Civil Insurrection?
• Nuclear/Zombie Apocalypse?

You can see that depending on what your goal is, the supplies or expertise required could vary greatly. Perhaps if you could describe what your goal is for the place we could give more useful input.

Maybe a shelter for a tornado, floods that wash out (ie, the low water crossings) the in/out access to the place. The likelihood in central Texas of being snowed in all winter is extremely low, though.

Civil Insurrection is a good one, though. If it came to that, however, I believe I would have more to worry about from neighbors and "allies" who see my place as a treasure room than the outflow from the city. As to the latter, it is one of the reasons why I am very reluctant to clear the cactus......and the fire ants. As to the former, some of my friends, when the world is nice, have joked about knowing where to come when the world isn't nice.

That, of course, presents a whole lot approaches to look at to include making good friends, finding ways to be more useful to them alive than dead, finding niches which work for you but not for others, physical defense measures, and the more creative definition of Detente if possible if it comes down to the end.

But like the nuclear/zombie apocalypse, there is the point of do I even want to live through the first wave. Do I want to live through a 'minor' economic collapse? Yes. Perhaps a Stalingrad? Perhaps. VERY Bad, worse case scenario? Probably not.

Safe rooms tend to be a necessity in my world. Ie, when one's an Arms Mistress, one is going to want some kind of vault at least. What does it need to have (at this point) at least? A secret way, a secret way out, an emergency escape to the outside. Air, food, water, waste disposal, cooking perhaps, firepower. C4 as it applies to the ranch, be it monitoring of external sensors, radio and other communications, etc.. As such, it will need power as well.

As such, the safe room itself probably needs its own "think tank" to figure out what it will be as oppose to just where to locate it.

As a side note, I am planning of putting radio comms in, getting a HAM license. I don't have any bars out at the ranch, my access to the Net is questionable. So I'm looking at alternate means, both as the mainstay and for emergency purposes. OF course if the radio room is in the safe room, there will probably be a "false" console in the regular house.

Does that help?

[SteveDaPirate]

I think part of the reason this thread is all over the place is that we aren't sure what you are trying to prepare your new house for.

• Riding out a Tornado/Hurricane?
• Flood lasting a week or two?
• Snowed in all winter?
• Civil Insurrection?
• Nuclear/Zombie Apocalypse?

You can see that depending on what your goal is, the supplies or expertise required could vary greatly. Perhaps if you could describe what your goal is for the place we could give more useful input.

[Gun Grape]

My god gunny, about the only thing you house can't do is get up and walk away from trouble.

Between living in coastal North Carolina and the panhandle of Florida most of my life, I've been through 9-10 Hurricanes.

I know what its like to have a 14in diameter limb propelled through my bedroom window. I know what its like to go more than a week without running water and electricity. To see the roof on the house across the street tear off.

I will do whatever I can afford, and am willing to spend to keep that from happening again.

That being said, and it being Hurricane season,

If I find myself in the path of a Cat 3 or above Hurricane, I evacuate. Anyone that doesn't is a damn fool.

When I come back, if the house is still standing, I kick on the gen and well then get to work digging the neighborhood out. If its all gone.... Oh well My family and I are safe. Insurance covers the little stuff

[Tamara]

You've got comments from a GS for freak sakes!

GS?

Again, are you building a home or an outpost? You've got a GS and an Officer of Engineers with experices in both ... and from your posts, you sound a lot like building the latter.

Well, I suppose in a way, a homestead might sound like the latter. People have told me that if you are living out in the country, you have to be ready to do a lot of stuff on your own.......or be ready to pay a lot when the repairman finally gets out to you.

BUT.........perhaps you can list why it sounds like I am building an outpost?

For one thing, you ain't no home owner. Six rooms of books and VHS when two terrabyte drives the size of one book will do? Are you a freaking idot? Do you know how long and heavy six rooms of books are to clean?

No, not yet about the home owner and you have a point about cleaning. It is a point in the back of my mind of how much can I take care of, how can I minimize my house keeping, to include perhaps changing my habits and behavior. It may be necessary to include a "cleaning lady" in my future.

But a thing or two. I'm not a Kibble person. I prefer having the book in my hand. I've found that going after books, after tapes is cheaper.

And if you are without power, how much battery life does your flashlight have before you're just using your books for fire?

Until the sun comes up?

1000 rounds of ammunition, 500 litres of water and enough fresh water to do other shit.

If you can't live off that for the rest of your life, learn ... because I will guarrantee you that you will never find replacement parts for your generator when it breaks down!

Okay, point noted...but I'm afraid the amount of ammo on hand is a matter of internal security, not open for discussion.

[Officer of Engineers]

Calm down.

I'm not doing this alone. Have I not come here, to this forum, to ask for suggestions?

You've got comments from a GS for freak sakes!

After I have made my plans, I will try to find someone to help me see them, if only in part. I will try to find a contractor to build my house. As much as I would like to save money and do it myself, even I have admitted that I don't have the time to build my own place.

Again, are you building a home or an outpost? You've got a GS and an Officer of Engineers with experices in both ... and from your posts, you sound a lot like building the latter.

For one thing, you ain't no home owner. Six rooms of books and VHS when two terrabyte drives the size of one book will do? Are you a freaking idot? Do you know how long and heavy six rooms of books are to clean?

And if you are without power, how much battery life does your flashlight have before you're just using your books for fire?

1000 rounds of ammunition, 500 litres of water and enough fresh water to do other shit.

If you can't live off that for the rest of your life, learn ... because I will guarrantee you that you will never find replacement parts for your generator when it breaks down!

[Tamara]

If a 1000 rounds of ammunition cannot last you until death, then you need help ... and it's time you stop thinking you can do all this shit alone ... which is why I now question you are an officer. Our jobs was never to do everything alone. Our jobs was to make sure others can do their jobs to our standards.

Reading you, no one ever met your standards ... and that is your fault!

Calm down.

I'm not doing this alone. Have I not come here, to this forum, to ask for suggestions?

After I have made my plans, I will try to find someone to help me see them, if only in part. I will try to find a contractor to build my house. As much as I would like to save money and do it myself, even I have admitted that I don't have the time to build my own place.

Finally, if you still feel this way about my background in the morning, then I will take it to note. But for now, it is late, and I believe it is better for it to be slept on.