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3-star ripped for presentation referencing God

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  • #16
    OoE & USS Wisconsin Reply

    "...In such a briefing, I read, 'these are my standards and I expect you to live up to them.' Inappropriate at the very least."

    Colonel,

    Your interpretation of the presented slide which, as "Ronnie's Rules", serves as his principle operating guidance to DISA employees is entirely accurate...and inappropriate on the part of Lt. General Hawkins. Were I a muslim, jewish or catholic departmental employee I'd have to wonder just where I stood in the eyes of my commander. That, alone, creates an unhealthy command climate.

    "...That said, I am in areement with Z about the lack of wrongness in mentioning God - we should be free to believe in God, and say so (but I am a private citizen - not a commanding General)...".

    God is not merely mentioned but highlighted in writing as the opening and closing elements of his guiding principles.

    "...it is bbetter to make Faith a private thing, shared on request and not shared on request as well."

    Unfortunately, a personal discussion isn't the case here. Had Lt. General Hawkins NOT included written reference to God in his guidance but had been asked about his faith later, I'd completely concur it was within his rights and beliefs to profess his faith. I'd even suggest he would be obligated to profess such lest he be considered duplicitous or a liar. That wasn't, however, what happened.

    Instead he proactively introduced his faith as a capstone element of his command climate and topped such with "Rules". I don't know about you but when a Lt. General makes perfectly clear his seriousness on any matter by couching it within the context of rules, whether I adhere to those beliefs or not (whatever they may be), I'd better damned well take seriously HIS belief in such.

    That conditions my behavior and expectations. Matters of spiritual worship especially so. Therefore, if I should feel threatened by Ayotollah Khameini's incessant reference to Allah in every other breath, forgive me if I conclude that I stand little chance for a fair judgement by him as a catholic. So too, perhaps, here.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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    • #17
      Is it specificaly said in any rule that he should not speak like this? If not then I cannot see how he has done 'wrong', though it is perhaps a misjudgement, but as said above Patton made plenty of faux pas of this sort and he did was not a bad General results wise.

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      • #18
        And he got a powerfull ally as a result.Proven on the battlefield

        I'd rather have 90% + speaking the same language and forget about diversity being a strength.No strength introducing handball players in a rugby team.Different tastes.And I'm not worried in the slightest about mentions of Allah,Buddha,Jehovah etc... The sides are set,so mentions of any divinity in such a context is mere rallying around the symbols.
        Last edited by Mihais; 25 Feb 12,, 09:29.
        Those who know don't speak
        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Mihais View Post
          And he got a powerfull ally as a result.Proven on the battlefield
          Alexander the Great would disagree with you. He was a god.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by S2
            I don't know about you but when a Lt. General makes perfectly clear his seriousness on any matter by couching it within the context of rules, whether I adhere to those beliefs or not (whatever they may be), I'd better damned well take seriously HIS belief in such.

            That conditions my behavior and expectations. Matters of spiritual worship especially so.
            This is the problem, you always have that niggling doubt.

            If you don't have religion better get it and make sure its the right flavour.

            Originally posted by Mihais View Post
            No strength introducing handball players in a rugby team.Different tastes.
            This is about having rugby players of different religions on the same team ;)

            Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
            This is a persistent issue in the Air Force.
            Would this have anything to do with flying and raining down hellfire.

            If the army is but a projectile of the navy, what is the airforce.

            Does the airforce play God :)
            Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Feb 12,, 17:09.

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            • #21
              [QUOTE=

              Does the airforce play God :)[/QUOTE]

              Only in their own minds.


              As for making 90% feeling good.....so screw the remaining 10%? That is an organization bound to fail. And we can't afford
              For DISA to fail is a nonstarter for us. They are responsible for the secure operations of ALL network communications within DOD.

              Another point is he violated Federal labor practice laws. It also can be seen as proselytizing which is against the UCMJ.

              He or any other leader can practice their religion when not "on the clock " but if he wants to speak in a religious manner while at work he needs to become a chaplain.


              Anything which excludes a portion of a unit due to command climate is prejudicial to good order and discipline.
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

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              • #22
                Only in their own minds.


                One must observe the characteristics and behaviors, and decide appropriately.

                Can summon the thunder and the lightning? Check
                Rides chariots of flame and awesome power? Check
                Can obliterate tens of thousands with a flash of light? Check
                Can appear among mere mortals in human form? Check

                Based upon these standards, we are indeed... gods! :whome:

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                • #23
                  Chogy,

                  What color is the sky in your world?;)
                  “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                  Mark Twain

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    Chogy,

                    What color is the sky in your world?;)
                    The color of the sky is whatever we desire. When females became pilots... shades of pink became more common. This caused much angst and dispute in the halls of Mt. Olympus, otherwise known as Langley AFB.

                    The lesser gods known as "Naval Aviators" almost destroyed all of us with their authorized treatise known as The Holy and Immaculate Temple of the Top Gun which contains many critical errors dealing with volleyball and showers.

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                    • #25
                      "Top Gun" aka Don't Ask Don't Tell Before Clinton

                      My late uncle, who spent 30 years in Naval Aviation, used to scream at this movie whenever he saw anything to do with it.

                      But then he would say...."Well, the Tomcat is pretty cool."
                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                        "Top Gun" aka Don't Ask Don't Tell Before Clinton

                        My late uncle, who spent 30 years in Naval Aviation, used to scream at this movie whenever he saw anything to do with it.

                        But then he would say...."Well, the Tomcat is pretty cool."
                        I've watched Top Gun over and over again and I never get tired of it....well, actually just the first 3 minutes and 35 seconds.
                        After that, as soon as an actor starts speaking, I immediately shut it off.
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                        • #27
                          Tarentino Explains "Don't Ask. Don't Tell"

                          "'Top Gun' aka Don't Ask Don't Tell Before Clinton..."



                          Priceless...
                          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by S2 View Post
                            "'Top Gun' aka Don't Ask Don't Tell Before Clinton..."



                            Priceless...
                            Beat me to this.
                            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                            • #29
                              Doktor Reply

                              "Beat me to this."

                              My quickness is God-like.
                              "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                              "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I was thinking of posting the same exact video
                                Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                                Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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