What is the point of the Marines?

[JCT]

AR,
Thank you!

Whoo hoo, 200 posts! In about 30 years I should get to the 1000 post mark!
JT

[ArtyEngineer]

I see that AR stayed at a Holiday Inn express recently.

Great post Sir.

Actually, Gunny, I have a reservation for one in El PAso, TX, next week!

The one at 6655 Gateway West? Thats the one Im at right now. Leaving Saturday morning though headed to lovely Yuma AZ.

Arty

[Albany Rifles]

AR,
Thank you!

Whoo hoo, 200 posts! In about 30 years I should get to the 1000 post mark!
JT

Well, kid, if you'd come home and quit screwing around over in the sand you could get there sooner!!!

Stay safe.

[Albany Rifles]

The one at 6655 Gateway West? Thats the one Im at right now. Leaving Saturday morning though headed to lovely Yuma AZ.

Arty

The very same....by this time next week we should both be friggin' brilliant!!

Missed you again, I see!

[ArtyEngineer]

The very same....by this time next week we should both be friggin' brilliant!!

Missed you again, I see!

I rteckon one of these days we wil be in the same place at teh same time, either at Ft Lee or down here at Ft Bliss. Im probably going to be down here for teh whole Summer Training event running through June and July.

Regards

Arty

[Albany Rifles]

And next week's trip just got cancelled...figures!

[JCT]

Well, kid, if you'd come home and quit screwing around over in the sand you could get there sooner!!!

Stay safe.

Sir, thank you. Mostly riding a desk this time around. This place doesn't quite fit the expeditionary nature that we like to ascribe to ourselves.

[Albany Rifles]

Sir, thank you. Mostly riding a desk this time around. This place doesn't quite fit the expeditionary nature that we like to ascribe to ourselves.

Chairborne!

Desks From Above!

[Kernow]

Marines

First Official Reference to the Marines:

The first official notice relating to the Marines was in 1664, when an order was passed by the British Government calling for 1,200 soldiers to be recruited for service in the Fleet. From the beginning these men were intended to combine the roles of infantry and seaman, capable of fighting on both land and sea.

The term ‘Marine’ first appears in official documents in 1672 and further Marine regiments were raised in the following decades, but it was not until 1755 that they were all gathered together in a unified body. These troops were deployed aboard all British warships, providing both a safeguard against mutinous crews and an elite fighting unit in time of war. :)

Early History of The Royal Marines: Historical Origins of a Famous Fighting Unit

[USSWisconsin]

First Official Reference to the Marines:

The first official notice relating to the Marines was in 1664, when an order was passed by the British Government calling for 1,200 soldiers to be recruited for service in the Fleet. From the beginning these men were intended to combine the roles of infantry and seaman, capable of fighting on both land and sea.

The term ‘Marine’ first appears in official documents in 1672 and further Marine regiments were raised in the following decades, but it was not until 1755 that they were all gathered together in a unified body. These troops were deployed aboard all British warships, providing both a safeguard against mutinous crews and an elite fighting unit in time of war. :)

Early History of The Royal Marines: Historical Origins of a Famous Fighting Unit

I recall the stern presence of tbe USMC aboard the battleship USS Wisconsin, they provided security.

[Red Seven]

We're not really an independent branch as we are part of the Department of the Navy.

Yeah...The MENS Department.


Thanks to Albany Rifles I don't have to post about the unique capabilities of the MEU/SOC. And besides, we've only completed 65 and a half years of our 500 year lease on life:

"The raising of that flag on Suribachi means a Marine
Corps for the next five hundred years." --

James Forrestal
SECNAV
Feb 1945

[wabpilot]

I tend to think of the Marines and the army for that matter in terms of weight. The lightest of our forces are the Airborne. They can be transported quickly by air, but don't have armor and have only field artillery. Of course, they are not very mobile once they get in theater. Next up in weight are the Marines. They are sea transportable with air transport for short distances from their floating bases. The Marines bring their version of mechanized infantry, armor and heavy artillery that is still very mobile. The Marines are slower to get to the scene, but have more mobility once they get there. The heaviest are the Army's mechanized infantry, cavalry and armored divisions. They move much more slowly, but once on scene they can move much more quickly. They also have overwhelming firepower of their own. Of course, the USN and USAF stand ready to double or triple that fire power when needed.

[Guest]

A brief history of the 'marines'

First Official Reference to the Marines:

The first official notice relating to the Marines was in 1664, when an order was passed by the British Government calling for 1,200 soldiers to be recruited for service in the Fleet. From the beginning these men were intended to combine the roles of infantry and seaman, capable of fighting on both land and sea.

The term ‘Marine’ first appears in official documents in 1672 and further Marine regiments were raised in the following decades, but it was not until 1755 that they were all gathered together in a unified body. These troops were deployed aboard all British warships, providing both a safeguard against mutinous crews and an elite fighting unit in time of war. :)

Early History of The Royal Marines: Historical Origins of a Famous Fighting Unit

If I may contribute to the answer, but the question referred to Marines in general, and not just those referred to in English.
The oldest regular Marine regiment in Europe is that of the Royal Spanish Marines, but of course the oldest know are the Sea Peoples who invaded and for a time rules Ancient Egypt.

As part of a regular force structure the first Marines were serving in the Roman Republic I believe.

After them, the next 'marines' are the Vikings, and later Normans.

During the Crusades the Genoese and Venetians had Marines also.

The Ottoman Turks copied this service and had several regiments of Marines.

Then come the above mentioned Spanish, and later the British Marines that started out as a regular Army regiment posted aboard Royal Navy vessels. Since the sailors were already known as mariners, the newly assigned land blubbers were termed Marines.

The US Navy simply copied the service, by which time there were already Marines in most countries with a relatively large Navy or colonies that ships went to.

Some Marines fought quite a long way from the sea. Russian Imperial Marines were at the Battle of Borodino. The French Imperial Marines were also at several inland battles.

However, the question why is an interesting one.

Up until the Normans the role of "warrior from the sea" was only a raiding one. Romans were an exception in that Marines provided a ship-to-ship fighting force if they encountered pirates of enemy war ships of opportunity.
The Genoese and Venetian Marines were likewise employed to assist the crew in defending the ship against the pirates (mostly from North Africa), or to defend the crew if the ship was wreaked on some inhospitable shore.

About this time the Chinese Empire sent off a massive fleet towards Africa which included a small army onboard, but not sure if they were regarded in any way as "marines".

This is pretty much why the Spanish, and later Portuguese made the Marine service a regular one. Transporting the riches of the East (spice trade) made merchant vessels vulnerable to piracy in the archipelagos of South East Asia, the Arabian Sea (Persian Gulf) and all along the coast of Africa where they had to regularly anchor for supplies.

The Dutch, British and French Marines followed as the "northerners" tried to 'muscle in' on the Mediterranean trade of the Genoese and Venetians.
While the Turks were fairly respecting of the commercial trade, Mamlukes were not, and neither the Arabic populations of the Barbary Coast.

During the 16th to early 19th centuries there arose a naval tactic which in French became known as the abordage, and in English, boarding.
Boarding, as may be imagined was an attempt to close with, and take over an enemy ship through direct transfer to troops to its decks. Because this was an opportunity event, military ships begun to carry larger numbers of marines just for this type of action. This also proved to be useful during occasional mutinies.
However, with the big post-Napoleonic peace in Europe the practice was eventually abandoned when ships became steam powered and started to carry long range guns that precluded closing to quarters.

At this stage Marines acquired a new calling - colonial guards. When embarked, the Marine contingent was usually the most immediately available body of troops to respond to emergencies, such as evacuation and rescue of Europeans from natives misbehaving.

There was a small spurt of growth in the Marines world-wide when the Japanese created their naval infantry, and the Imperial German Marines were created to look after the short-lived German colonial empire.

The real growth in Marine Forces of course came with the Second World War.
However, their use was distinctly different from country to country. The British used theirs primarily for raiding and special operations, hence the Marine Commando of today.
The Red Navy formed many Naval Infantry units from surplus sailors, and these served on all fronts, but used extensively in both raiding, and offensive assault operations.
The USMC on the other hand was used primarily for large scale landing operations, despite formation of specifically raiding units.

So, as can be seen from the above, originally "marines" were intended for combat of opportunity, i.e. raiding either the enemy shipping, the counter-piracy tactics, or land-raiding/extraction missions. This is because usually they were small in numbers and limited in the resources to sustain them in combat.
The USMC is limited to 175,000 personnel, but not all of these are of course combat troops. I'd say that only about 90,000 would actually participate in combat of some sort if the entire Corps was committed, but if it came to that, it would probably mean a general engagement by the entire US DoD. As far as I know there is no mission profile for a USMC amphibious raid in the divisional strength, though an amphibious raid is one of the SOP mission profiles for say an MEU, so its not like the USMC has made a doctrinal break with the history of their service.

[classical1939]

ok, this may sound really stupid as i have less than minimal understanding of military doctrine and operations.. but after going through the posts it occurred to me that the entire discussion was based on the assumption that the marine corps will be folded into the army...

wat if the marine corps is taken into the navy as, a Naval Infantry corps(say) with specialized brigades. Because of their association with the navy, isnt it more logical that they be inducted into the navy than the army? moreover, the marine corps has a commonality of a large percentage of it's high tech toys with the navy(read F 18's and Sea knight and sea stallions). They still retain their expeditionary capability cause of their ability to travel by USN ships. As for the specialized equipment and doctrine i fail to see y that will be a problem. the Department of Navy pays for it and will continue to pay for the development of the equipment. given that the navy have no sizeable infantry, the equipment will still be a priority( as compared to the idea of USMC joining the army, where it would have received less of an attention).

just my thoughts. i do not mean to ruffle any feathers!