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  • First fuel cell boat

    Way to go , this can only be bad news for the the energy companies





    Reuters


    Emitting only water vapour and gliding silently through Amsterdam's centuries-old canals, a canal boat -- a popular tourist attraction -- powered by fuel cells made its debut cruise on Wednesday.

    The "Nemo H2," which can carry about 87 people, is the first of its kind designed specifically to run on a fuel cell engine, in which hydrogen and oxygen are mixed to create electricity and water, without producing air-polluting gases.

    "That's important in a city like Amsterdam with over 125 canal trips per day," said project manager Alexander Overdiep.

    A boat trip around Amsterdam's concentric semi-circles of canals is a popular tourist pastime in the Dutch capital.

    From spring, visitors will have the option of a 'CO2 Zero Canal Cruise', for an extra 50 cents, which will go towards further research into carbon-reducing technology, said Freek Vermeulen, managing director of Lovers boat company.

    The new boat cost more than double to build than a canal boat running on a diesel engine, and needs to visit a hydrogen dispensing station for a refill once a day, while normal boats only need a fuel top-up once a week.

    But developers of the 3 million euro (2.7 million pound) project, which was partly government funded, said costs would decline as more boats followed this test phase, and if more advanced hydrogen distribution infrastructure emerged.

  • #2
    Pfft - we have a solar-powered tourist boat here in my town. Carries up to 110 people, and doesn't need to refuel ever. In service since 2004.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by kato View Post
      Pfft - we have a solar-powered tourist boat here in my town. Carries up to 110 people, and doesn't need to refuel ever. In service since 2004.
      Looks like a very nice town matey ;)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kato View Post
        Pfft - we have a solar-powered tourist boat here in my town. Carries up to 110 people, and doesn't need to refuel ever. In service since 2004.
        I bet there's an extension cord somewhere near it's dock for those long stretches of cloudy days...

        Even more eco-friendly

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        • #5
          What I don't unnerstand about all this is why...don't they put a separator in cars, boats or what have you and fill them full of H2O....separate the oxygen and hydrogen....burn the hydrogen and what ever amount of oxygen necessary and exhaust the rest of the oxygen????

          Why do they insist on spewing water all over the windshield of my beautiful full sized fossil fuel burning, air polluting, red Ford truck. It leaves unsightly streaks and the little women is getting along in years and really has a hard time reaching the windshield to clean it.

          Now I do unnerstand that this raises the "shut the hell up I can't make millions off water" idea but really...can't we all just get along.
          Si Uis Pacem Para Bellum
          Pax Per Potens

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Capsoda View Post
            What I don't unnerstand about all this is why...don't they put a separator in cars, boats or what have you and fill them full of H2O....separate the oxygen and hydrogen....burn the hydrogen and what ever amount of oxygen necessary and exhaust the rest of the oxygen????

            Why do they insist on spewing water all over the windshield of my beautiful full sized fossil fuel burning, air polluting, red Ford truck. It leaves unsightly streaks and the little women is getting along in years and really has a hard time reaching the windshield to clean it.

            Now I do unnerstand that this raises the "shut the hell up I can't make millions off water" idea but really...can't we all just get along.
            Cant ya get the missis one of them extension mops

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tankie View Post
              Cant ya get the missis one of them extension mops
              She tears those things up like they were cheep MiC toys. When I first Got her she was going through lawn tractors like they were made of chocolate!!! I got smart and let her write the check for one and suddenly they last for 12 years.
              Si Uis Pacem Para Bellum
              Pax Per Potens

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Capsoda View Post
                why...don't they put a separator in cars, boats or what have you and fill them full of H2O....separate the oxygen and hydrogen....
                Because that would be sort of... useless, considering they need an extra engine to provide the energy for the separation?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by kato View Post
                  Because that would be sort of... useless, considering they need an extra engine to provide the energy for the separation?
                  Separators work through a chemical reaction that is initiated by a small DC electrical charge. No motor is necessary.
                  Si Uis Pacem Para Bellum
                  Pax Per Potens

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Capsoda View Post
                    Separators work through a chemical reaction that is initiated by a small DC electrical charge. No motor is necessary.
                    Conservation of energy. You don't get energy out of nothing.

                    You use x joules of electricity to separate y moles of of water into 2y moles of hydrogen and y moles oxygen. You then "burn" 2y moles of hydrogen and y moles of oxygen to produce x joules of electrical energy in your fuel cell. Figure in energy lose due to inefficiency (as waste heat) and you end up putting in energy from an external source to produce waste heat.

                    At the end of the day, the energy is derived from elsewhere, ie the power source required to separate the hydrogen from oxygen (for hydrogen fuel cells), or whatever the energy source to produce ethanol (for ethanol fuel cells).

                    Just checked Wiki. Efficiency of a fuel cell is in the region of 50%, depending on type. Maximum theoretical efficiency is about 83%. These values are higher than internal combustion engines (ICEs) which operate on the engine cycle that places a theoretical efficiency that is dependent on temperature difference between hot and cold sinks. The practical operating temperatures result in ICEs being generally less efficient.
                    Last edited by Maeda Toshiie; 31 Dec 09,, 06:43.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Maeda Toshiie View Post
                      Conservation of energy. You don't get energy out of nothing.

                      You use x joules of electricity to separate y moles of of water into 2y moles of hydrogen and y moles oxygen. You then "burn" 2y moles of hydrogen and y moles of oxygen to produce x joules of electrical energy in your fuel cell. Figure in energy lose due to inefficiency (as waste heat) and you end up putting in energy from an external source to produce waste heat.

                      At the end of the day, the energy is derived from elsewhere, ie the power source required to separate the hydrogen from oxygen (for hydrogen fuel cells), or whatever the energy source to produce ethanol (for ethanol fuel cells).

                      Just checked Wiki. Efficiency of a fuel cell is in the region of 50%, depending on type. Maximum theoretical efficiency is about 83%. These values are higher than internal combustion engines (ICEs) which operate on the engine cycle that places a theoretical efficiency that is dependent on temperature difference between hot and cold sinks. The practical operating temperatures result in ICEs being generally less efficient.
                      Yes I have read all the science and mathematical equations and I do understand them but it is still cheaper to take a little juice from a battery that will be recharged by an alternator, which after starting will take over, to separate the molecules and burn the hydrogen in an engine than it will ever be to by hydrogen from a hydrogen filling station of any kind. The problem is that the present "High Grand Exalted Pootintoots" of any company in the business of fossil fuels is not going to develop a means to run vehicles of any kind to that will be cheaper. They are too busy "developing a means" that has already been developed. They are not interested in helping anyone.

                      Separators are economical and easy to build. There are small companies developing them in home garages and back yard sheds for use by the average person that dramatically reduce the use of gasoline and put out far less pollution. It wouldn't take much for governments to follow suit. The fact that the technology is already developed means less medals and accolades so they won't be able to stand up and lie about how they did it all. Kind of like that scum Al Gore inventing the internet and discovering global warming. Everyone knows he is a wind bag and lier but still he makes millions on it. I know that in America it will be up to the average person to fix it and I am sure that they will. Just check out the internet and YouTube. All kinds of "water burning" machines are being developed by John Q Citizen all around the world.

                      Me....I'm going to have a shot of JD and make as much smoke and smut as I can.:))
                      Si Uis Pacem Para Bellum
                      Pax Per Potens

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                      • #12
                        ... it's a lot more efficient to just power an electric engine, if you have the batteries onboard anyway. Instead of using the same energy to power a separator which fuels fuel cells - completely unnecessary step.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kato View Post
                          ... it's a lot more efficient to just power an electric engine, if you have the batteries onboard anyway. Instead of using the same energy to power a separator which fuels fuel cells - completely unnecessary step.
                          It will be when someone develops a battery that will do the job (3 to 400 miles per charge) and is small enough and inexpensive enough for public use. I have advised help to develop and race electrically (battery) powered cars and the battery technology is just not there yet. I am counting on it growing up before I pass on to that great NCO Club in the sky so I can run one down the drag strip but as for now batteries are not the way to go.

                          Electric motors sure put out the torque though. I could never do with gasoline, alcohol or any other fuel I can think of what what I could do with a pair of electric motors. Them suckers pit out the torque let me tell ya.
                          Si Uis Pacem Para Bellum
                          Pax Per Potens

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