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  • #46
    The SLRs failings do not equate to it being a bad weapon, nor do they mitigate the fact that the failings of the SA-80 are more numerous and severe.

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    • #47
      there is an argument that goes like this:

      a soldier exists to further the interests of his country.

      my countrys interests are damaged by 7.62 rounds flying round and killing civilians in northern ireland. moreover, my countrys interests are damaged more by the accidental death of a civilian than by the death of a soldier.

      the 5.56 round of the SA80 is much less damaging to the interests of my country because it tends to stop when it hits its target, or a wall, or a car.

      therefore, because the soldier exists to further the interests of my country, he should be equipped with the SA80, despite its intial failings and the possible threat to himself of those failings occuring during an engagement with an armed terrorist.

      not attractive, but logical.

      your are of course right that the SLR's failings don't relate to whether the SA80 is a 'good' weapon or not, but as with most things in life its a 'this or that' situation, and you take what you can get.

      if i recall correctly, the other options were the M-16 or the H&K G3, both were discounted because a) they were oldish weapons at the time, and b) a valuable(?) opportunity for a british design and export succes would be lost.
      before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.................... then when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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      • #48
        BS. A SS109 5.56 round will penetrate numerous brick walls, penetrate engine blocks, and blah blah blah.

        IF yer worried about stray rounds, teach your troops to shoot better.

        The M-16A4 is in current production.

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        • #49
          it was a bizarre decision when they took it in the early eighties, it looks worse now.

          fundamentaly the decision was made on the same basis as the eurofighter, it doesn't matter how crap or expensive it is, we'll be paying ourselves for it and theres a slight chance that someone else might be stupid enough to buy it as well.

          but the fact remains that a 5.56 round from an SA80 has less chance of flying out the other side of whatever it hits than a 7.62 round from an SLR. because the northern ireland conflict was in full swing during the procurment and development process of this werapon it was a major feature of what was required.
          before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.................... then when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Hawk_eye
            Some bullpus do work, thenagain a bad example would be the British L85-a1, SA-80
            I mean that is the big issue about bullpups. If they work it's fine, but if not...

            Most bullpups seem quite bad to handle from the look of it (well ok that's only TV)
            ...and what I'm frightened off, is that they call it God's love...

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Felix
              I mean that is the big issue about bullpups. If they work it's fine, but if not...

              Most bullpups seem quite bad to handle from the look of it (well ok that's only TV)
              The same could be said for a classic it all depends on the engineering and the construction. a poorly put together bull pup is just as likely to jam as a poorly put together classic with the same results a dead user

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              • #52
                I'll tell you this, if i have a choice between a bayonet fight with a troop armed with an SLR and a troop armed with an SA-80, i'll much rather face the guy with the SA-80.

                Bullpups blow as bayonet platforms, they cause all kinds of issues with left handed users(of which i am one), and they also normally have a much shorter sight radius than a conventional weapon.

                It is my opinion that bullpups offer no real advantadge over a standard rifle, but lots of disadvantadges.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by M21Sniper
                  I'll tell you this, if i have a choice between a bayonet fight with a troop armed with an SLR and a troop armed with an SA-80, i'll much rather face the guy with the SA-80.

                  Bullpups blow as bayonet platforms, they cause all kinds of issues with left handed users(of which i am one), and they also normally have a much shorter sight radius than a conventional weapon.

                  It is my opinion that bullpups offer no real advantadge over a standard rifle, but lots of disadvantadges.

                  the point about bayonet fighting is perfectly valid, put a bayonet on an SLR and you've got a spear!
                  before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.................... then when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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                  • #54
                    Somehow I think every Kalashnikov bullpup attempt has ended up more or less inpractical.

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