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  • #46
    As an amatuer shooter who has been doing it for over 40 yrs, recoil management is no concern in the beginning. Fire a 12 gauge shotgun if you want to experience recoil, you can go and shoot clay pidgeins for a reasonable cost (it is challenging too). The pistol is more difficult than rifle (and far more dangerous), a .22 rfile will enable you to learn all the basics of shooting. Pistol shooting should follow that, IMO. I would be more consevative than highsea about how many shots it takes to be a good marksman, but it is 1000's of aimed rounds (IMO) before you develop "natural" shooting habits - being able to hit the target easily and consistantly. Spraying a clip doesn't biuld marksmanship, it is just wasting ammo. Safety is critical and is the first thing, it must be learned, or you may never get there - perhaps even dying or shooting someone else by accident instead of mastering the gun.

    I suggest that you find a good range to shoot at, and buy a .22 from the gun shop associated with the range, and arrange to take a few intro lessons to learn safety, good habits and techniques (the teacher wil normally let you shoot a variety of guns that they provide) - then practice, practice. The .22 will be the most affordable way to get to the level of good marksman, by then you will have a pretty good idea about what other kinds of guns you want.

    My first real gun (after my Crossman Pellet gun) was a single shot bolt action .22 - I took hunter safety when I was 13, was also taught by expereinced shooters. I fired many bricks of ammo with that .22 (it took years, I couldn't afford a lot of ammo at once), and learned to hit a target consistatly with that gun.

    A very dangerous approach is to get a powerful pistol and go figure out how to shoot it yourself...
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 04 Nov 11,, 02:59.
    sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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    • #47
      Lol. And I was thinking my 30K was a low number.

      I guess I look at it a little different. I will consider my Sig 226 to be broke-in when it has 10,000 rounds through it, and I consider a particular ammo suitable for carry when I have 1,000 jam-free cycles of that ammo through the gun.
      "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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      • #48
        Originally posted by highsea View Post
        Lol. And I was thinking my 30K was a low number.

        I guess I look at it a little different. I will consider my Sig 226 to be broke-in when it has 10,000 rounds through it, and I consider a particular ammo suitable for carry when I have 1,000 jam-free cycles of that ammo through the gun.
        That's pretty damn thorough.
        "Draft beer, not people."

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        • #49
          How about zeroing your rifle guys? 25/100 meter is normal? What you guys recommend.

          Somebody told me that I could chamber a 7.62X54 in a rifle chambered for 7.62X39mm (like an AK-47). That is crazy right? The round won't even fit in the magazine to begin with.
          Wolf Hunter

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          • #50
            What's the fuss about safety?

            After 2 visits of the range he will be as safe as we are. When I first went there (age 10) I was told:

            - Never turn your muzzle toward other beings unless you are hunting
            - Never shoot at rocks and other hard objects (ricochets)
            - Never leave a bullet in the chamber. Always shoot in the air before leaving the range (didn't have those fancy barrels with sand/water/whatever back then)
            - Put the safety on

            How hard is that?
            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Doktor View Post
              What's the fuss about safety?

              After 2 visits of the range he will be as safe as we are. When I first went there (age 10) I was told:

              - Never turn your muzzle toward other beings unless you are hunting
              - Never shoot at rocks and other hard objects (ricochets)
              - Never leave a bullet in the chamber. Always shoot in the air before leaving the range (didn't have those fancy barrels with sand/water/whatever back then)
              - Put the safety on

              How hard is that?
              Hard enough, you forgot never put your finger inside the trigger guard till you are ready to shoot, with the firearm on the target, and the other biggie, verify your target before you shoot, never fire at moving brush, it could be your kid. and before leaving the range, do not shoot up in the air, good way to kill someone if you left a round in, visual inspection of the chamber.
              CADPIPE

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              • #52
                Originally posted by cadpipe View Post
                Hard enough, you forgot never put your finger inside the trigger guard till you are ready to shoot, with the firearm on the target, and the other biggie, verify your target before you shoot, never fire at moving brush, it could be your kid. and before leaving the range, do not shoot up in the air, good way to kill someone if you left a round in, visual inspection of the chamber.
                Finger outside the trigger guard is good advise. Never thought of it as this the way teach you to shoot when you mingle with target shooters.

                The ranges here have a safety line behind the shooters, meaning noone but those shooting is allowed in front so the moving brush being a kid is something noone ever thought of. As for the shooting in the air, was still safer then shooting in the rocks or in the soft ground (other bullets in it). Now they have barrels so that's not an issue.

                Visual inspection on the chamber for semi-autos is not idiot proof. Happened several times people to close the gun with the magazine in and to put a bullet in with the slide.
                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                • #53
                  A few more essential gun safety rules (in addition to the ones mentioned above):

                  Always be sure of your backstop
                  Be sure the barrel and chamber have no obstructions in them.
                  Don't carry an auto with a round in the chanber.
                  Never point a gun at anything you don't want to shoot (or more realistically don't point the gun towards an unsafe back stop or at people you don't intend to shoot).
                  Don't dry fire a gun.
                  Make sure your gun is unloaded when yiou are finished shooting it.
                  Don't rely on the safety.
                  Keep your gun secure, don't leave a loaded gun unattended, lock your gun up when not using it or having it under your control.
                  Be sure the ammo you use is suitable for your gun.
                  Use eye and ear protection.
                  If a cartridge iis a dud, wait a minute before opening the action.


                  The list of safety topics is much longer than that...
                  Last edited by USSWisconsin; 06 Nov 11,, 05:37.
                  sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                  If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                    A few more essential gun safety rules (in addition to the ones mentioned above):

                    Always be sure of your backstop
                    Be sure the barrel and chamber have no obstructions in them.
                    Don't carry an auto with a round in the chanber.
                    Never point a gun at anything you don't want to shoot (or more realistically don't point the gun towards an unsafe back stop or at people you don't intend to shoot).
                    Don't dry fire a gun.
                    Make sure your gun is unloaded when yiou are finished shooting it.
                    Don't rely on the safety.
                    Keep your gun secure, don't leave a loaded gun unattended, lock your gun up when not using it or having it under your control.
                    Be sure the ammo you use is suitable for your gun.
                    Use eye and ear protection.
                    If a cartridge iis a dud, wait a minute before opening the action.


                    The list of safety topics is much longer than that...
                    You can't go wrong stessing safety! Another one is don't shoot at water.
                    CADPIPE

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                    • #55
                      How about zeroing your rifle guys? 25/100 meter is normal? What you guys recommend.
                      100 yards (or meters) would be typical for a rifle

                      Somebody told me that I could chamber a 7.62X54 in a rifle chambered for 7.62X39mm (like an AK-47). That is crazy right? The round won't even fit in the magazine to begin with.
                      Somebody lied - the action wouldn't even close - the cartridge is too long - you might be able to blow your face off though, if you got it wedged in there and pulled the trigger. I wouldn't listen to this person when it comes to fire arms advice...
                      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Ararat View Post
                        How about zeroing your rifle guys? 25/100 meter is normal? What you guys recommend.
                        25m is definitely too short. That's like a competition pistol. 100m for a low power rifle. I would imagine a high power rifle should be zeroed at 300m to 500m.

                        Originally posted by Ararat View Post
                        Somebody told me that I could chamber a 7.62X54 in a rifle chambered for 7.62X39mm (like an AK-47). That is crazy right? The round won't even fit in the magazine to begin with.
                        That somebody is crazy. 7.62x54 is totally different than a 7.62x39. Stand the rounds side by side and you can see.

                        There are some guns that can chamber a few different type of rounds without any modification. Pretty much any gun that can chamber a 357magnum can chamber (and fire) 38spl without any problems, except for auto loaders like a Desert Eagle.

                        Basically, don't chamber any round that is not explicitly made for that gun, just to be on the safe side.
                        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                          25m is definitely too short. That's like a competition pistol. 100m for a low power rifle. I would imagine a high power rifle should be zeroed at 300m to 500m.
                          Our zeroing process was at least 4/5 head/neck shots at 25m to zero the rifle properly, at least 3/5 shots in the eyes/nose region at 50m to verify and 3/5 face shots at 100m to make sure we really knew how to shoot, all in prone position. Of course, we were Armored Corps and always considered our rifles to be more of a nuisance that had to be carried around in case of emergency deployment off our tank until we could climb into another one. There's no reason to use an M-16 when you've got a couple FN-Mags, an M2 .50 cal, a 60mm mortar and a 120mm main gun.

                          Once we started doing infantry work as well, we took our rifles and range work more seriously, and that's when I upgraded to my M16A2E3 and then to M4A1 as a designated marksman so my zeroing process was entirely different
                          Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                          Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Ararat View Post
                            How about zeroing your rifle guys? 25/100 meter is normal? What you guys recommend.
                            Depends on the caliber and what you're shooting. For target shooting I zero the range of the target. For .22 plinking I zero at 50 yards. For hunting rifles it depends on the caliber and game you're hunting. A brush gun I like to zero at 100 yards, it's not likely I'm going to be shooting at something 300 yards away.

                            For a longer range rifle like a .30-06, I go to the tables. A 180gr soft point .30-06, 1" high at 100 yards will put it close to zero at 200 yards, and you can ignore hold-over at any range 200 yards or less.

                            If I think I may be taking 300 yard shots, I would zero 2-1/2" high at 100 yards. That would keep the maximum rise under 3", and put the bullet about 1-1/2" high at 200 yards.

                            Originally posted by Ararat View Post
                            Somebody told me that I could chamber a 7.62X54 in a rifle chambered for 7.62X39mm (like an AK-47). That is crazy right? The round won't even fit in the magazine to begin with.
                            Um yep. that's pretty crazy.
                            "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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                            • #59
                              I'm also contemplating going through a basic firearms control class which also offer lessons in center axis relock...would it be practical or helpful learning this style?
                              "Draft beer, not people."

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Red Team View Post
                                I'm also contemplating going through a basic firearms control class which also offer lessons in center axis relock...would it be practical or helpful learning this style?
                                This is just a guess: while you are trying to assess the distance and figure out which stance to use, 7th sniper could put 6 holes in you.

                                KISS-Keep It Simple S........
                                CADPIPE

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