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  • Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
    You are on the right track by looking into the future, just stay away from the rimfire scopes as they cannot stand the recoil of the bigger rifle.

    Have you thought about your choice of reticles and MOA clicks, since you will be switching rifle calibers with it?
    All I know about scopes for what I want to do is that I need one that I want good quality optics to prevent glare and fogging and that a low, low range magnification is more important for what I want to do than having a high top-range magnification. Apart from that I'd love to hear anything you can tell me about matters that you have raised and others like where parallax should be set for the ranges that I am talking about, ease of transfer of scopes between rifles and anything else you can think of.
    "There is no such thing as society" - Margaret Thatcher

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    • Originally posted by Aussiegunner View Post
      All I know about scopes for what I want to do is that I need one that I want good quality optics to prevent glare and fogging and that a low, low range magnification is more important for what I want to do than having a high top-range magnification. Apart from that I'd love to hear anything you can tell me about matters that you have raised and others like where parallax should be set for the ranges that I am talking about, ease of transfer of scopes between rifles and anything else you can think of.
      Perhaps this will help How to Choose a Scope
      CADPIPE

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      • Originally posted by cadpipe View Post
        Perhaps this will help How to Choose a Scope
        Thanks, that is a good article. The things that it didn't seem to cover is recticle size, MOA clicks and the robustness of scopes, which 7S talks about, so 7S I'd still be interested in hearing any other pearls of wisdom you have :-).
        "There is no such thing as society" - Margaret Thatcher

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        • Originally posted by Aussiegunner View Post
          Thanks, that is a good article. The things that it didn't seem to cover is recticle size, MOA clicks and the robustness of scopes, which 7S talks about, so 7S I'd still be interested in hearing any other pearls of wisdom you have :-).
          If your rifle shooting is limited to slow and well calculated at known fixed distances, such as target shooting at a range, then a simple fine duplex reticle in the second focal plane and minute of angle turrets might be a good choice.

          For most other rifle shooting I'd suggest a reticle with gradations in milliradians (mil-dot is one example, there are many others), with that reticle in the first focal plane (FFP). You can use that for very quick range estimation. And I'd suggest exposed turrets with detent clicks 0.1 milliradians apart instead of moa. Shorthand for this is "mil/mil FFP". Develop a simple two column cheatsheet chart for the load you are using, column one showing range distance to target, the second column showing bullet drop in milliradadians. Use the scope to estimate range, the chart to find bullet drop, and the scope to compensate using either the turret clicks or holdover. You can add windage info to the chart and treat it similarly. Use it enough and you will soon memorize the portion of the cheat sheet you are using.

          Opinions and preferences vary widely. A good example of this is S&B's PMII 5-25x56mm. I'm not suggesting you buy one. My point is that its available with various FFP reticles, turrets that adjust clockwise or counter clockwise in moa or mrad, all because their customers for this scope, many of whom are experts and pros, have widely varied prefs. Hensoldt sells to the same market, and most of their scopes have SFP reticles. There is no one right answer, but what you choose will affect how you use it. If your ranges and targets are highly varied, and you aren't working with a spotter or range finder or known range, then I'd suggest mil/mil FFP and a cheat sheet, and that will continue to work well with a range finder or known range or spotter.

          Here is some more info:

          Reticle in first focal plane (FFP) vs in second focal plane (SFP):

          http://www.premierreticles.com/pdfs/...wToFFP-SFP.pdf

          some info on mil-dot reticles (and other reticles with gradiants in milliradians).

          User Guide

          Resources
          Last edited by JRT; 05 Dec 11,, 22:38.
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          • Originally posted by Red Team View Post
            Hey guys in the next year or so I'm planning on getting myself a first pistol or even maybe a rifle for some target shooting...any recommendations?
            A couple of things that you didn't mention but might want to consider are airguns and shotguns.

            The various clay target shotgun sports are good fun. A lot of hunting can be done with shotgun. And I would argue in favor of a shotgun loaded with number 1 buckshot for defense use at home.

            Air rifles might be lawful to use in places where its not lawful to use a firearm, such as a suburban back yard. Some shoot air pistols in their basements and garages using a simple target holding pellet trap loaded with duct seal. Competitive "field target" shooting is increasing in popularity in the US. All good fun, while also good for developing marksmanship skills.




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            Last edited by JRT; 31 Dec 11,, 06:15.
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            • A pellet gun is an excellent way to develop shooting skills cheaply. A .177 also can also use bb's which are about the cheapest ammo per shot. Pellets dont ricochet as much and are better for hunting too. A pump pellet gun is less expensive to use than the CO2 cartridge types, and the ammo lasts a lot longer too.
              sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
              If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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              • Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                A pellet gun is an excellent way to develop shooting skills cheaply. A .177 also can also use bb's which are about the cheapest ammo per shot. Pellets dont ricochet as much and are better for hunting too. A pump pellet gun is less expensive to use than the CO2 cartridge types, and the ammo lasts a lot longer too.
                Until a couple of years ago, my notion of an air rifle was the Crosman 760 pumper I had as a kid, or maybe an RWS 52 springer I'd see advertised in some catalogs.

                Air rifles have advanced significantly in the last couple of decades, especially the PCP type, pre-charged pneumatics.

                100+ yard presents the challenges of long range shooting because of the trajectory of sub-sonic projectiles with moderate ballistic coefficients (hollow base pellets).

                edit: I removed the video that showed varmint hunting starlings with an Edgun Matador bullpup (made in Russia), and swapped in the videos below of a test at a shooting range of an FX Royale 400 (made in Sweden). I have a couple of FX Independence air rifles (.22 & .25 cal.) which share some similarity to the Royale, but substitute a full length shroud (quiet as a mouse fart) and an integrated pump in exchange for the larger air tank.






                Last edited by JRT; 01 Jan 12,, 23:59.
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                • Itīs hunting only if you eat (use) them. Otherwise it is vermin control or plain senseless killing.

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                  • Originally posted by mustavaris View Post
                    Itīs hunting only if you eat (use) them. Otherwise it is vermin control or plain senseless killing.
                    On the sidebar subject of varmint hunting...

                    Starlings and English House Sparrows are both introduced exotics, non-native to North America. They both compete with native bird populations. Starlings with swarms numbering in the thousands are an agricultural nuisance, and can pose human health problems at feedlots where they defacate in animal feed. English House Sparrows are particularly agressive in destroying eggs and killing hatchlings of native birds. Various state and federal governments have spent money toward reducing local problematic populations, but have not been able to control broader populations, so the local problems quickly return.

                    http://www.sparrowtraps.net/why_trap_sparrows.htm

                    http://icwdm.org/handbook/birds/HouseSparrows.asp

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                    Last edited by JRT; 02 Jan 12,, 04:57.
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                    • What did I write?

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                      • Originally posted by mustavaris View Post
                        What did I write?
                        We have lots of hunters, describing hunting as "plain senseless killing" is likely to offend some of these people.
                        sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                        If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                        • What did I write, again?

                          I have hunting license myself.

                          Hunting is hunting only when you use the animal you kill. Otherwise it is either vermin control or plain senseless killing. Killing random animals is not "hunting". I used "or" because I did not know what is the status of starlings in North America.

                          Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                          We have lots of hunters, describing hunting as "plain senseless killing" is likely to offend some of these people.

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                          • If you're a beginner - .22.

                            You can go out on the weekend and shoot from sunrise to sundown without putting a dent in your pocket.

                            .30-06 - $1 per round
                            .223 - 50 to 60 cents per round
                            .22 - 5 cents per round

                            I also had a Ruger 10/22, Bushnell scope with a banana clip - could go out on a Saturday or Sunday and shoot all day for $20. Highly recommend it as a beginner's rifle.

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                            • Originally posted by mustavaris View Post
                              What did I write, again?

                              I have hunting license myself.

                              Hunting is hunting only when you use the animal you kill. Otherwise it is either vermin control or plain senseless killing. Killing random animals is not "hunting". I used "or" because I did not know what is the status of starlings in North America.
                              I understand, and agree that killing animals for no good reason is senseless.
                              sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                              If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                              • Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                                I understand, and agree that killing animals for no good reason is senseless.
                                I edited the post, swapped in a couple of videos that do not show varmint hunting. The hunting shots were illustrating the capability of the air rifle at ranges exceeding 100 yards, but provoked distraction from the topic. Check out the replacement videos, as I think you will find them interesting.
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