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Small arms for aircrew

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  • Blue
    replied
    All the helo and c-130 crews that I ever caught a ride from, wore .45s and m-9s after the switchover. Crewchiefs on choppers usually had a car-15 or m-16 available.

    My old neighbor John, who was shot down twice over Korea, carried a 1911. The second time, it saved his life. He was shot up bad and bailed out, after he hit the ground he shed his chute and just as he drew his pistol, a NK soldier rushed out of the brush with bayonet mounted. John didn't have time to react with a shot. He doesn't remember exactly what happened but when the rescue found him, he was unconcious, his .45 was empty in his hand and the NK soldier was missing a head, literally. He woke up two weeks later in a hospital and years later after he found the SGT that had risked his own neck to pull him out of a hot area, to thank him, the SGT related that it looked to him that John had somehow pinned down soldier in H2H and then put the .45 under the soldiers chin and then emptied the mag.

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  • Stitch
    replied
    Originally posted by Chogy View Post
    The S & W Model 15 was not what I would call a suitable side-arm, and I am amazed it replaced the M1911 .45 auto after WW2. It feels like a political decision... the 1911 was proven and available in vast numbers.
    With you on the M1911A1; don't understand the logic behind that decision. Plus, you get an "extra" round with the M1911 compared to the 15. If it was me, I think I'd take a Baer or a Kimber M1911A1.

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  • Chogy
    replied
    I'm agreeing to the notion of a compact, light, semi-automatic weapon (like this pistol) as being ideal when it needs to be part of a vest. But think on Tanker weapons... when the crew bails out, don't they usually have compact long arms that they can grab? Why would a helicopter be much different? You could have M-4's on a rack to be grabbed as needed from a downed helicopter.

    Same deal with an ejection seat kit. If they can stuff a life raft in there, they should be able to add a carbine. I'd simply rather have a rifle than a pistol if I was in the bush after a shoot-down.

    The S & W Model 15 was not what I would call a suitable side-arm, and I am amazed it replaced the M1911 .45 auto after WW2. It feels like a political decision... the 1911 was proven and available in vast numbers.



    Do many pilots & aircrew use their own personal weapons as a supplement?
    I had a stainless Walther PPK that I planned on concealing in a lower flight-suit pocket, but I found out personal arms are totally prohibited; that our personal effects would be searched, and the chances of getting a weapon like that into a war zone was pretty much nil.
    Last edited by Chogy; 14 Jan 11,, 19:21.

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  • Stitch
    replied
    I know Army helicopter pilots used to carry H&K MP5's, but they discontinued that practice a while ago because the MP's were a little on the largish size (compared to a pistol), and they didn't use them very often (except in Somalia!). I have no idea what they're doing now, maybe letting the pilot decide for themselves depending on personal preference?

    But that FN Five-seveN sure looks nice!

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  • Bill
    replied
    There are a few very famous incidents of pilots using their sidearms in Vietnam.

    The 5.7 would be superior to a MP-5, or almost anything, for several reasons. The #1 reason being that it's a pistol sized high capacity (30rd) "assault weapon" with the ability to easily defeat Class IIIA soft body armor (which will stop 12 gauge slugs or .44 magnum fire), it has almost no recoil, and it has a 100+ meter range.

    To me, pistols like the Five Seven will eventually render legacy handgun caliber sidearms obsolete. Just a matter of it gaining acceptance and catching on. By 2030, these things will be very common IMO.

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  • Chogy
    replied
    Haha! We whined for years about crappy handguns, and the more "Hooah" among us asked for an M-16 carbine to be part of the seat kit, but that never happened.

    I'd put an HK MP-5 PDW in the seat kit myself, with 2 to 3 mags.

    Our Marine exchange pilots were always into the handguns, and they'd boast about how they'd sneak up on someone and pop him in the head, so as to steal his AK. The rest of us stuffed them in the map case to keep it from grinding into the armpit.

    There's a famous story from Vietnam. One guy hated his pistol, and NEVER loaded it, but flew with it per regulations. Guy gets shot down, ejects, lands in a ditch, gets knocked unconscious, and awakens to a "click - click - click." A peasant woman had his revolver and was holding it against his head and pulling the trigger repeatedly. NVA soldiers arrived, beat the woman, and took him to the Hanoi Hilton. ;)

    I don't know of a single case from Vietnam where a handgun saved a pilot, but it may have happened.

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  • Bill
    replied
    Fn 5.7

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  • Porsche917LH
    replied
    That's what I was thinking but despite being an HK fan I like the knights arnament PDW better. But the MP7 isn't much bigger than a pistol.

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  • leib10
    replied
    HK MP7 would probably be pretty good.

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  • Porsche917LH
    started a topic Small arms for aircrew

    Small arms for aircrew

    I've done a search and have found nothing on it... What do you guys think would be a good sidearm for a pilot. (LOL the one the pilot never has to use) Obviously full on engagement would never be desirable. It's a compromise between size, ammo capacity, and killing power. Do many pilots & aircrew use their own personal weapons as a supplement?
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