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Survival Kit + M6 .410 + .22 over under

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  • Bill
    replied
    I think given the choice between a nice custom AR, and a Kel Tec RFB, i'd have to go AR. You can get an AR in any caliber that pleases you, from .17 rem all the way up to .50 Beowulf.

    I think if the Kel Tec .308 was about 1/2 the price, it would be a lot more viable an alternative.

    If you want the lightest possible survival "rifle" that maintains good terminal effects, decent range, good penetration capability, high capacity, and high ROF, i think a FN Five Seven pistol would be a pretty darn good choice:
    Last edited by Bill; 17 Jan 11,, 19:12.

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  • toemag
    replied
    Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
    How is Kel-tecs durability and reliability? Any militaries using them?
    I dunno, doubt it though ;)

    Tony

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  • Blue
    replied
    How is Kel-tecs durability and reliability? Any militaries using them?

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  • toemag
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill View Post
    That Kel Tec .308win Bullpup is like $1800 MSRP i think. Way overpriced for a Kel Tec in my estimation.
    I hear you, but you only get what you pay for, and BTW and AR 15 will cost you the same in €'s here in the €uropean states, and what a state we have gotten ourselves into ;-)

    Tony

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  • Bill
    replied
    That Kel Tec .308win Bullpup is like $1800 MSRP i think. Way overpriced for a Kel Tec in my estimation.

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  • toemag
    replied
    Yep, that NATO standardisation thing was a pain, but getting the SA80A1 (in 1992) was a mistake, we should have bought M4 Carbines, it would have been cheaper as they were a proved platform. That new rifle they have had to buy is an AR10 with Acog sights, and is well liked by those lucky enough to get one, but the L1A1 with SUIT sights would have done the job just as well IMHO.

    Hope you and the family are keeping well, BTW Taff is still posting pictures over on FB of you and a load of the blokes from yesteryear.

    Stay safe.

    Tony

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  • dave lukins
    replied
    Originally posted by toemag View Post
    I never was a fan of the Kel-tec guns until they brought this Kel Tec CNC out.

    As far as bullpups go the carbine version would do, easy enough to pack and with it being in .308 win., it can take care of most jobs around, and that weaver/picatiny rail will give you access to fit a wide range of optics.

    I haven't seen or used this weapon, so I can't say I'd entrust my life to it, but .308win is my hunting caliber and it works a treat.

    Has any of my luckier brethren out there seen or used this weapon??

    Tony

    Nice looking weapon Tony and 7.62. I thought it was a mistake when we went to a smaller cal. I now read that 7.62 has reared its head with some UK Troops in Afghanistan. I must admit I would feel a lot safer with that Kel Tec than an SA 80:)

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  • toemag
    replied
    I just had to google that RFB and here's a sweet little video .



    Tony

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  • toemag
    replied
    I never was a fan of the Kel-tec guns until they brought this Kel Tec CNC out.

    As far as bullpups go the carbine version would do, easy enough to pack and with it being in .308 win., it can take care of most jobs around, and that weaver/picatiny rail will give you access to fit a wide range of optics.

    I haven't seen or used this weapon, so I can't say I'd entrust my life to it, but .308win is my hunting caliber and it works a treat.

    Has any of my luckier brethren out there seen or used this weapon??

    Tony

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  • sappersgt
    replied
    Kel Tec 2000

    I thought this was kinda neat. A 9mm foldable carbine that takes pistol magazines.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec SUB-2000

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  • toemag
    replied
    Here's a couple of points to be taken into consideration.

    Type of disaster.
    Life expectancy (after the above disaster).
    Expected recovery or return to normal time frame (if any).

    Is there such a thing as being prepared for every eventuality?

    Improvise adapt and overcome will probably be the saving grace of the human race.

    Tony

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  • Bill
    replied
    The idea behind stocking such a large supply of ammo in a mobile kit is based on the premise that it might literally be a "lifetime supply."

    You might never get another single round of ammo after you walk out your front door. I have but 630rds of ammo for my AR carbine stowed in my vest. That ammo might need to last me literally decades. And if one was forced by circumstances to get into a firefight with a superior force one could very quickly burn through a huge quantity of that ammo in a break contact drill or an "overwhelming assault."

    If mobility is a concern, ammo can always be dumped or stashed on the road as required. Or very possibly traded for other greatly needed supplies.

    Being burned out is the great threat for any bunkering individuals. It is really one of the very few things that could get me to abandon my location. I think that any movement at all in a "doomsday" scenario where there is a lack of government authority would be extremely dangerous, and would most likely be wise to avoid at all costs. This is true in spades for daytime movement. And true to the 10th power in a city environment.

    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Yea but your an OLD FART now
    It's actually not that heavy a load. Far less than i used to carry when i was a young lad in the infantry.
    Last edited by Bill; 16 Jan 11,, 05:10.

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  • Porsche917LH
    replied
    If the plan is to take on a such sizable force you need all that ammo you need a different plan. Just saying. :popcorn:
    Then again plans are useless.
    I favor mobility. You can always go super wacko and cache some ammo. At my BOL I've placed a small scout tent, about a 1000rds of .22, a spare mag bar, and snare wire.

    Just get the largest PVC pipe you can find and cap it up then bury it.
    My location in the lowlands with no substantive food and a lot of idiots around me does necessitate bugging out.

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  • Gun Grape
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill View Post

    Before someone tells me it's too much to carry, I will point out that I was in the Infantry- I know how much i can carry. ;)
    Yea but your an OLD FART now

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  • toemag
    replied
    Originally posted by Porsche917LH View Post
    I think a distinction needs to be made between a battle kit and a wilderness or urban survival set up. Not specifically at bill since his plan covers that but just in general.
    Correct, there is the long term survivor and the down range troop who is supported by a larger organisation train of thought, the long term survivor if armed will be evading all and any enemy/confrontational contact at all cost as he hasn't the capabilities of a soldier or the back up, (if he or anyone on his team is injured they will probably die from sepsis, or even a simple infection). not to mention no replen facilities, and is reliant on his own ingenuity and what he can find on his travells to keep him restocked with everything. On another forum people are talking about carrying seed to start their own little plantations etc, which is a far cry from actually being in a shtf situation, and remember if your bug out location appealed to you, you can bet your bottom dollar that your not going to be alone.

    Trapping will be a more usefull way of securing meat scources as it is quiet, as is my compound and longbow, for those of you who hunt, you'll have experienced the appearence of mother natures dustbin men showing up shortly after you have taken an annimal, now wait and see what happens in a SHTF/WROL you'll have everything that is still able to move heading for the area from where the shot came from.

    I plan longterm and hope it never hapens, Bavarian winters are harsh and if you can survive for a year the rest is easy(ish) ;) I hope.

    If you need to do so ebook reading, google halffasts "lights out" it's a good read, a lot of good info is in there, even if he did give it a story line, and even so, that goes into the small unit tactical capabilities of a survivor element in a very hostile environment. There ia also a very good account from an Argentinian who not to long ago was experiencing the ecconomic crash and what it entailed. Bugging in is the more viable option, but if the nieghbourhood catches wind of the fact that while they are starving, you and your family don't seem to be affected you'll have a big problem. okay you have guns, but if they burn you out your at a loss, loose all of your supplies and your running into their open arms...

    Okay I'm off to bed, good night all.

    Tony

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