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  • I can't believe I have not put up these pictures in this thread.

    Colt 1851 Navy 44 cal. replica

    Winchester 1894 Trapper 357 mag.

    Norinco coach gun

    EMF New Dakota 357 mag. (Colt SAA replica)
    Attached Files
    Last edited by gunnut; 17 May 08,, 09:02.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    • Originally posted by Big K View Post
      theres a lot of handwork on this rifle and sword. just look the the barrel, handles(swords too) and stock.

      and the rifles mechanism still works...but i wonder if the rifle can shoot again?
      That is a beautiful antique you have there. It just might shoot again. But I wouldn't risk it. It's far too valuable.
      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
        That is a beautiful antique you have there. It just might shoot again. But I wouldn't risk it. It's far too valuable.
        Yep and not only risk to the fifle but real risk of personal injury to BigK.

        This brings me to my question for the firearm experts here.

        I have a .58 cal muzzle loader and I know it's 58 beacause it is stamped on the barrel.

        If you were to come accross a muzzle loader, calibre unknown and you were determined to fire it, how do you accurately measure the calibre?
        In a firearm where the barrel is open both ends it is a simple matter of slugging the barrel and the slug easily removed for measurment.
        Not so simple for a rifle with only one opening so, is it use of an inside caliper or something else?

        cheers.

        Comment


        • hey captain,

          You can certainly use a micrometer to "help" determine the caliber, but the safest is to use whatever the barrel is stamped. Bullet diameters for like caliber guns can vary as much as .003. The .45 cal (pistol)slug is a good example of this. It can range from .451 to .454. If you shoot a .454 through a barrel that was designed for .451, they could be loaded to the same powder charge, but the bigger dia bullet will produce higher pressures, perhaps damaging the gun(or you).

          IMO if the proper caliber, weight and powder charge are unknown, I would simply have something nice to hang on the wall. I wouldn't risk it.

          Similar is the gun that BigK posted. It would be wonderful to have the opportunity to shoot such a historical piece, but I highly recommend against it. Without knowing the proper specs for a bullet and charge could produce some heartbreaking results.

          However, in the case of blackpowder weapons, there is a lot lattitude in powder charges. Barrels in BP guns are much heavier but the pressures are much lower. This is for a good reason. Powder charges used to vary greatly when those guns were what everyone had. Thicker barrel had less of a chance being damaged by overloading. Modern smokeless powders produce much higher pressures than BP, that is why one should never use smokeless powder in a BP gun, but you probably already know all that.

          What you seek is the groove diameter. Take that and then start with the smallest dia bullet for that cal, but you still have the matter of proper powder charge. IMO I would research as much as possible on the firearm, go find a muzzle loading guru and see what he says. I know what it is like to be determined to do something, right or wrong. Like a moth to a flame, we just can't help it. Good luck!:)

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          • I have to admit to having no knowledge at all about BP weapons?

            I have fired a rifle and a pistol once, many moons ago, and it didn't do anything for me.

            Tony
            Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

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            • Big K has some interesting Weapons.

              1: Don't even think of firing the rifle. 2: Don't clean it.
              The barrel looks interesting, for an old weapon it looks like it is rifled.
              The knife is also interesting. The handle is horn and looks like it is riveted and recently sharpened.
              The Sword-stick had a "blood channel" and the main cane wood looks in excellent condition. Have them all looked at by an expert.
              Last edited by dave lukins; 18 May 08,, 00:03.

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              • Captain, you need one of these to determine the diameter of a barrel and the diameter of the bullet:

                Calipers

                As far as charge goes, my friend has a 50 cal muzzle loader and we load it generally to 70 grains of black powder/pyrodex, and that was on the low end. For a 58 cal, I would imagine it's safe to go to 80 grains. But you will want to check with some loading data from 58 cal owners.


                Tony, that 1851 44 cal revolver up there is a black powder pistol. Aren't you at all interested to shoot it? I will admit it's not like unloading a hi-cap pistol with laser sight from the hip and achieve a 1" group at 25 yards. But it has its own charm. The loading process is half the fun. Took me 5 minutes to load 5 rounds last time. The velocity of the lead ball was so low, we used a sun dial for chronograph.
                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                • Im impressed with those weapons Big K

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                  • Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                    hey captain,

                    You can certainly use a micrometer to "help" determine the caliber,
                    I meant caliper. That is what happens when you type in your sleep on a saturday morning.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                      Captain, you need one of these to determine the diameter of a barrel and the diameter of the bullet:

                      Calipers

                      As far as charge goes, my friend has a 50 cal muzzle loader and we load it generally to 70 grains of black powder/pyrodex, and that was on the low end. For a 58 cal, I would imagine it's safe to go to 80 grains. But you will want to check with some loading data from 58 cal owners.
                      Thanks for that.

                      I just wondered if there was some other secret gunsmith, tricky method other than a Vernier.

                      In my .58 I use 90 grains of Goex that drives a 500 grain cast slug.

                      I don't know what the projectile velocity is because I am not game to risk destroying a chrony with the concussive blast. :))

                      Lots of fun, surprisingly accurate, lots of BOOM :)):)):)) ,smoke and lovely smell for my buck but the two hours or so that I have to spend swamping it out and oiling it up after fun, means I don't use it very often.

                      Cheers.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                        I meant caliper. That is what happens when you type in your sleep on a saturday morning.
                        No problem:), micrometer, caliper, vernier,,, I know what you mean.

                        Cheers.

                        Comment


                        • Handgun's

                          While handguns are still fun to shoot, after my accident a few years ago I just waste ammo when I shoot them, I used to manage 140+ point's from a possible 150 point's (15 shots rapid), shooting my Colt Python double action at 25m, I can no longer achieve that sort of accuracy so I don't waste my time or ammo.:(

                          I do however love to shoot my rifle's, because I can still shoot 1" groups at 100m with the BUIS., and if I'm shooting a scoped rifle I want one jagged hole at 100m, and I usually manage to get what I want:)).

                          Tony
                          Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

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                          • Toemag, sorry to hear you had an accident

                            That's a bummer dude, I hate that we all get old, and or hurt and lose what we used to take for granted. When I try to shoot target pistol anymore, there is one target up, but I see three, and shoot the middle one. At least eye surgery holds some promise for me. As Arnold Palmer said "Nothing gets better with age":(
                            CADPIPE

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                            • I fell several meters and landed on a concrete floor that had some H girders lying haphazardly, which broke my fall but nearly broke my back, my shoulder and right arm were banged up good, but not broken, fine motoric is damaged still with loss of feeling in the right hand. The Doctors have that, not invented here attitude because they can't find or heal the cause, and yes my eyesight has started to slip, especially when I get tired....

                              I just realized its time to start growing old gracefully, fat chance of that:))

                              Instead of shooting the middle one, just concentrate on the front sight, and let the target do what it wants, it'll be a fuzzy mass, but you should be okay.

                              BTW., do the leading eye test to make sure that your not using the wrong eye due to old age playing its sad jokes on you..

                              Tony
                              Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

                              Comment


                              • growing old gracefully, not

                                Instead of shooting the middle one, just concentrate on the front sight, and let the target do what it wants, it'll be a fuzzy mass, but you should be okay.

                                BTW., do the leading eye test to make sure that your not using the wrong eye due to old age playing its sad jokes on you..

                                Tony[/QUOTE]
                                I do concentrate on the frony sight, that's when I get three targets,unless I am inside 10 yards, and then I can see without glasses. I read about the Quell Shooting system some time ago when I was playing golf, it requires using the left eye for shooting, which worked out good because you use the left eye to look at the golf ball so your head doesn't move. Back then I could still target shoot with the right eye. Left eye shoots lower than the right. I will be a happy camper if they can fix me with lasik or one of the wonder procedures. I need to be able to do my target pistols justice. Now that we have an indoor range i have reassembled my Target shooters box, just won't be able to lift it with guns in it for a while.
                                Attached Files
                                CADPIPE

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