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  • The 16" 50 barrel at former Fort Miles at Lewes, Delaware is sitting in its cradle and is desperate need of a coat of paint. The park has stuck some lumber in the muzzle and breach to keep the children from climbing into barrel.
    There is also an 12" rifle that was placed back into the emplacement. This fort was equipped in WW2 with two 12" and a pair of 16"45's.
    Last edited by surfgun; 31 Mar 15,, 21:50.

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    • Originally posted by Ken_NJ View Post
      May 2012 one went to Delaware.

      Missouri gun barrel now rests at park on Delaware shore - tribunedigital-baltimoresun

      Would be nice to get an accounting of where barrels are on display today.

      Wonder if the forward Prinz Eugen barrels are still around. And wasn't an 18 incher at Dahlgren?

      There is an old picture here of a few of these guys: USA 18"/48 (45.7 cm) Mark 1, 16"/56 (40.6 cm) Mark 4 and 18"/47 (45.7 cm) Mark A
      I believe all those gun barrels are still on display at Dahlgren. The 18" gun was considered for the Montana class Battleships but the 16"/50 "Lightweight" guns on the Iowas prooved to be more effective, accurate and cheaper.

      One 16"/50 is on display at the Los Angeles Maritime Museum in San Pedro just walking distance from the Iowa. That's the only one I know of for sure as I gave the shipyard commander an of the wall "hint" of how to get it over there when he was upset about the bids put in by various transporters to move the barrel only 5 miles.

      The two I mentioned about earlier were hauled away from LBNSY to a special test complex in the Mojave Desert (the project was later cancelled) and the truck flat beds ALONE had TWENTY-FOUR WHEELS EACH. That's not counting the ten wheels on the Prime Mover tractor. Each barrel weighs about 118 standard tons.

      So of the nine barrels that were sent to Subic Bay in 1968 for possible regunning of New Jersey, only three were saved. The other six cut up for scrap.

      I would have liked to have had one set down alongside my house. I live on a corner lot but it's only 50-foot wide. So it would have to be set down on the long side of my lot which is 100-feet. But to clear my wide driveway in back where I had my camping trailer and 3/4 ton truck, several feet of the muzzle would have stuck out well past our house front and might have been a tad bit intimidating to our neighbors. Though I wouldn't have to worry about anybody stealing it though. To point it the other way would not be my style and besides, showing the breech end I would be spending all of my spare time explaining to passer-byes what an interrupted thread is for the breech block.
      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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      • Of the 8 barrels that were in storage at St. Julians Creek, 4 are still there today.

        Of the 4 that have been relocated:

        1. Located in Middletown, NJ (for Battery Lewis)
        Originally was on New Jersey
        Historic, 68-foot-long Navy gun barrel now in Middletown

        2. Located at Lewes, De (for Fort Miles)
        Originally was on Missouri
        Gun parts arrive at Fort Miles | Coastal Point

        3. Located at Virginia National Wildlife Refuge (for Fort John Custis)
        Originally was on Missouri
        http://hamptonroads.com/2013/03/batt...e-shore-refuge
        Eastern Shore wildlife refuge home to WWII gun barrel | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

        4. Located in Phoenix, Az
        Originally was on Missouri
        World War II gun barrels arrive in Arizona

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        • At least one of the remaining 4 barrels, from the Iowa, is actively being sought for preservation:
          http://www.13newsnow.com/story/news/...-gun/19239875/
          Last edited by ChrisV71; 02 Apr 15,, 15:05.

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          • I've got a question for the experts...why weren't the Massachusetts' curators allowed to cut her propeller shafts? I thought donation is a method of disposal, so if these are ships the Navy claims not to want anyway and is happy to scrap, why do they care if the shafts are cut?

            On a similar note, now that Norfolk has taken over the Wisconsin, do they face similar restrictions? Are the four Iowas still inspected by the Navy for any readiness purposes?

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            • Rusty said the Iowa and Wisconsin cannot be modified as per the donation agreement. What was odd was the Volunteer coordinator told me the Navy wouldn't take them back but he probably wasn't privy to that info. Not sure on the Massachusetts although I swearIread why somewhere :Zzzzzz:. I still don't see how they thought that would be quicker.
              RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 85 gt kid View Post
                Rusty said the Iowa and Wisconsin cannot be modified as per the donation agreement. What was odd was the Volunteer coordinator told me the Navy wouldn't take them back but he probably wasn't privy to that info. Not sure on the Massachusetts although I swearIread why somewhere :Zzzzzz:. I still don't see how they thought that would be quicker.
                In all cases with all donated Battleships, there was always a restriction not to reactivate the main crew galley, the main propulsion machinery and the navigational equipment for navigating at sea. That last one is rather reduntant because you can't navigate anyway if you cant turn the propellers. However, after some time the Navy does release those restrictions as they already have with the New Jersey and Missouri.

                As for the Massachusetts, the Navy kept those restrictions on all those previously donated ships for a very long time. I know the person from NAVSEA who double checked that the restriction was still in place when the Mamie group called to ask if NAVSEA had any procedures written up of how to remove the propellers. To my understanding those restrictions have been lifted since then.

                Technically speaking, I think it is detrimental to leave the props on while in mothballs because the bronze works to build up cathodic corrosion on the hull. And bronze age hardens quite readily and on all reactivations (of ANY ship) the props have to be re-annealed or replaced with newer props. But, they would have to be removed PROPERLY in dry dock and not just have the shafts cut by divers.
                Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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                • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                  The 16" 50 barrel at former Fort Miles at Lewes, Delaware is sitting in its cradle and is desperate need of a coat of paint. The park has stuck some lumber in the muzzle and breach to keep the children from climbing into barrel.
                  I don't know the circumference of them at their widest but even at 4 feet that would only be 2 gallons at most and granted what I would put on there isn't cheap but if someone came to me for something like that I could prob get it to them for like $50 total. To bad someone doesn't do that but atleast it can rust away anytime soon .

                  Rusty:



                  I sure someone has asked this before (might even have been me at one point) but why the restrictions on the galley and to an extremely lesser extent the propulsion systems? I mean for the most part the museum ships propulsion systems can't be re-activated because they're steam plants because of the obvious but what about the diesel subs? I heard of a few subs that have atleast one operational diesel onboard. The galley I figured was liability because of a fire but was still curious. I know some reactivate the smaller captains galleys and seem to have no problem though.
                  RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

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                  • . Here is the barrel at Lewes.
                    Attached Files

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                    • OSPHO...............lots of OSPHO.
                      RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 85 gt kid View Post
                        I don't know the circumference of them at their widest but even at 4 feet that would only be 2 gallons at most and granted what I would put on there isn't cheap but if someone came to me for something like that I could prob get it to them for like $50 total. To bad someone doesn't do that but atleast it can rust away anytime soon .

                        Rusty:



                        I sure someone has asked this before (might even have been me at one point) but why the restrictions on the galley and to an extremely lesser extent the propulsion systems? I mean for the most part the museum ships propulsion systems can't be re-activated because they're steam plants because of the obvious but what about the diesel subs? I heard of a few subs that have atleast one operational diesel onboard. The galley I figured was liability because of a fire but was still curious. I know some reactivate the smaller captains galleys and seem to have no problem though.
                        The crew galley is sized to feed the ENTIRE crew and not just the enlisted men. So the longer it is NOT used, the better chance of it being reactivated quickly. There is no restriction on the smaller galleys. For example, when we towed the Iowa out of Siusun Bay, we activated the wardroom galley for breakfast. As the ship stands now in San Pedro, we have also reactivated the Chief's galley. The Captain's (and/or Admiral's) galley is basically on stand-by for special meetings in those spaces. Don't forget, the Captains stateroom was once President Roosevelt's quarters on his trip to the Teheran conference. So we have "reactivated" that stateroom in the manner it would have been when the President was on board.

                        The order not to reactivate the engine rooms is really the most important restriction. To operate those boilers you have to open up the injection and discharge sea scoops at the bottom of the ship, re-pack bearings around the shafts, re-anneal and re-balance the propellers, reactivate the steering gear room, etc. etc. We can only do that with a properly sized drydock (where on the west coast they are all up in Bremerton since Hunters Point and Long Beach were sacrificed for container parking lots) and lots and lots of money. Donald Trump probably would not be interested since the ship is not in New York (he is a very devout New Yorker). Though I think he has a Golf Course in the Palos Verde Hills just above San Pedro. But since I'm not into "Cow Pasture Pool", I don't know if it's close enough for a wild drive to land in our parking lot.
                        Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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                        • So just to be clear, the New Jersey and the Missouri are under no restrictions whatsoever re: preserving any kind of readiness? The curators could fill the gun breaches with cement, or the engines could be left rot beyond repair, or if they wanted to they could cut the shafts, etc? Are the restrictions on the Iowa and Wisconsin still in place because they were the two designated ships in the 2006 defense authorization act? I thought I read a lot of quotes when the Iowa museum opened up that she remained subject to recall in a national emergency (which we know won't happen, but still that sounds different than the New Jersey and Missouri). Do the museum curators care at all about the material condition of the ship beyond appearance? I'd assume the ships are STILL able to be brought back to fighting shape (with fantasy funds/crew...and the NJ and Iowa less so), but that obviously won't last forever...

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                          • Well they still have to adhere to Navy donation rules so no they have to place nice :D. But New Jersey did have a hole cut out of the barbette on turret 2 because the reactivation rules didn't apply to her anymore BUT she could still be repaired easily so I've heard. I guess though if SHTF and we really needed to the NJ and MO could be reactivated too but that would be one bad scenario.
                            RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ArmorPiercing88 View Post
                              So just to be clear, the New Jersey and the Missouri are under no restrictions whatsoever re: preserving any kind of readiness? The curators could fill the gun breaches with cement, or the engines could be left rot beyond repair, or if they wanted to they could cut the shafts, etc? Are the restrictions on the Iowa and Wisconsin still in place because they were the two designated ships in the 2006 defense authorization act? I thought I read a lot of quotes when the Iowa museum opened up that she remained subject to recall in a national emergency (which we know won't happen, but still that sounds different than the New Jersey and Missouri). Do the museum curators care at all about the material condition of the ship beyond appearance? I'd assume the ships are STILL able to be brought back to fighting shape (with fantasy funds/crew...and the NJ and Iowa less so), but that obviously won't last forever...
                              Let's put one thing straight here: I am a founding member of the Pacific Battleship Center and their Naval Architect. Because of some medical problems this past year I haven't been aboard as often as I would like to. But I personally know the dedication of our crew and volunteers and you can rest assured that Battleship is VERY well taken care of.

                              I spent 39 years at the Long Beach Naval Shipyard. I hired in as an Apprentice Shipfitter in September of 1954 and retired as a Naval Architect in February of 1994. In the 1980's I was assigned to be the structural Configuration Manager for the modernization of all four Iowa class Battleships. So I know pretty much about how the ships are built, why they were built that way and how to keep them fit.

                              Well, at least structure wise and armor wise. Compartment arrangement wise (which was also one of my requirements as Configuration Manager) I'm also pretty good at and even my wife has been aboard helping me take measurements and develop any improvements we can do aboard the ship. But in the field of Mechanical items, Electrical work or Electronics I know the experts to call on who I used to work with at LBNSY and they are all willing to go aboard and see what can be done and offer advice. For electrical and electronics I can call on Bill *** and/or Ray **********. For compartment arrangements I can call on John ***** and/or Anthony *********. For metallurgical concerns I can call on Dan *****. For heating and cooling I can call on Stan *******. For machinery and propulsion I can call on Nat ******. Even for structural modifications, I have all my drawings reviewed by Larry **** before issueing to the ship. Larry used to be one of my supervisors and has a Masters Degree in Naval Architecture.

                              Please note the above that I'm leaving out the last names of our experts to maintain their privacy. I goofed on this once before with a document I wrote and he's bugged me (justifiably) about it ever since.

                              So don't you worry about the Iowa. The same can be said of her three sisters. We have an excellent manageral staff to keep things straight. So if there is any problem, our staff can handle it. If you don't think they can ---- well, let's just say you do not want to go through me (and/or with a couple of other people I know). Well, especially if it's with any sort of anger or vindictiveness. I much prefer boring you to death with speeches of ship histories, UFO sightings, Monster legends and how to drive an M41A1 tank.
                              Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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                              • I wasn't implying the museum staff wasn't qualified...I was just curious if they're trying to keep the ships in any kind of FUNCTIONAL state, or just to ensure they last as long as possible as museums. For example, I heard the Iowa is subject to recall until 2020, but the New Jersey is not? That would mean the New Jersey museum staff could do stuff that the Iowa staff could not, right?

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