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  • SWO Wrote:
    Fortunately, that oil is in something like 200 tanks spread all over the ship and across four decks. They will not all "collapse" at once. Seriously, the cheapest, and safest in terms of safety of the operation, most especially for divers, is to maintain the boom around her that already exists, and the sweep gear standing by. There is a Coast Guard Strike Team there to do just that. Once one or even a few tanks collapse, the problem can be maintained and vacuumed up. Then you wait for the next one. This show isn't going to be over, if ever, for another 100 years or more.
    Sounds like a plausible answer - obviously, things have changed quite a bit in Naval situation management since I was in the service ('60s); and that's a good thing!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by desertswo View Post
      Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, I will stipulate to the superior knowledge gained from experience about armor and such, but ya'all need to stick to your day jobs.:slap: Having been Chief Engineer in USS Gridley (CG 21), the famous, and really rather prosaic quote attributed to Commodore Dewey at the Battle of Manila Bay was, "You may fire when you are ready Gridley." Gridley being the surname of the CO of USS Olympia.

      "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead," may, or may not have been uttered by David Glasgow Farragut at the Battle of Mobile Bay, after the Monitor Tecumseh struck a mine, or "torpedo" as they were then known, and sank, causing other ships in the van to slow . . . which pissed Farragut off, hence the famous words. I used to pass the wreck of Tecumseh abreast Dauphin Island every time I took the frigate to sea, or returned to Mobile. Just sayin'. ;)
      I bow to your CORRECT recollection as to who hit what. Well I have been mixing things up a bit since Sunday night. The weakness in my left knee gave out and I fell backwards in our dining room. Unfortunately I hit my head against the wood-carved toy chest we keep there for our grandchildren when they come over. That was about 2030 hours. Thanks to having the world's best neighbors they came running over when they saw the paramedics pull up.

      The husband stayed with me all night at Lakewood Regional while the doctor put SEVEN steel staples in a 4 centimeter gash in the back of my head at about 0100 Monday morning. The MRI of my head showed NO signs of even a chipped bone in my skull. Being 7/16th German, 3/16th Irish and with some bits of Welsh, English and Ukranian mixed in as well, I have a pretty thick skull and firm stubborness to have such a little thing stop me.

      Well, maybe mix me up between who said what, when and where. But I was always bad at remembering names anyway.

      My neighbor (Jerry who is also a medical student) got me home around 0200. But he didn't leave until after 0230 as he not only picked up the furniture that fell but cleaned up all the blood I had "spilled". The main pool was about the size of my computer scanner. Nobody could ask for a better neighbor.

      Hopefully the staples will come out before Christmas. But the day after Christmas I also have an appointment with my Cardiologist (appointment date changed just 10 minutes ago by his office - not my idea). One way or the other, I will be escorting you aboard the Battleship Iowa either in that week or the latter three quarters of January (I have a lower spine procedure scheduled in the first week which will hopefully bring back some strength in my left knee).

      Yes, I am stubborn, but I also stress to keep my promises and anxious to meet a good friend.

      Hmmm, I'm not supposed to get those staples wet when I take a shower. I will have to dig out one of my helmets to wear. The WW 1 "doughboy" helmet as too narrow of a brim. The WW II to Viet Nam "Steel Pot" actually doesn't have much of a brim. The "Desert Storm" Kevlar helmet would have one of the head straps right over the cut. So I guess I'll settle on the WW II Air Raid warden's helmet though it's heavier than any of the others. Oh, I do have an aluminum contruction worker's helmet but it has no head band. But I keep it around anyway because the bottom of the brim is stamped USMC.

      Oh, there I go again running off things that really don't need to be said. But I enjoy this forum very much and consider everybody on it as a good friend. As a matter of fact, some of them really are personal friends of mine (some of them on board the Iowa).
      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
        I bow to your CORRECT recollection as to who hit what. Well I have been mixing things up a bit since Sunday night. The weakness in my left knee gave out and I fell backwards in our dining room. Unfortunately I hit my head against the wood-carved toy chest we keep there for our grandchildren when they come over. That was about 2030 hours. Thanks to having the world's best neighbors they came running over when they saw the paramedics pull up.

        The husband stayed with me all night at Lakewood Regional while the doctor put SEVEN steel staples in a 4 centimeter gash in the back of my head at about 0100 Monday morning. The MRI of my head showed NO signs of even a chipped bone in my skull. Being 7/16th German, 3/16th Irish and with some bits of Welsh, English and Ukranian mixed in as well, I have a pretty thick skull and firm stubborness to have such a little thing stop me.

        Well, maybe mix me up between who said what, when and where. But I was always bad at remembering names anyway.

        My neighbor (Jerry who is also a medical student) got me home around 0200. But he didn't leave until after 0230 as he not only picked up the furniture that fell but cleaned up all the blood I had "spilled". The main pool was about the size of my computer scanner. Nobody could ask for a better neighbor.

        Hopefully the staples will come out before Christmas. But the day after Christmas I also have an appointment with my Cardiologist (appointment date changed just 10 minutes ago by his office - not my idea). One way or the other, I will be escorting you aboard the Battleship Iowa either in that week or the latter three quarters of January (I have a lower spine procedure scheduled in the first week which will hopefully bring back some strength in my left knee).

        Yes, I am stubborn, but I also stress to keep my promises and anxious to meet a good friend.

        Hmmm, I'm not supposed to get those staples wet when I take a shower. I will have to dig out one of my helmets to wear. The WW 1 "doughboy" helmet as too narrow of a brim. The WW II to Viet Nam "Steel Pot" actually doesn't have much of a brim. The "Desert Storm" Kevlar helmet would have one of the head straps right over the cut. So I guess I'll settle on the WW II Air Raid warden's helmet though it's heavier than any of the others. Oh, I do have an aluminum contruction worker's helmet but it has no head band. But I keep it around anyway because the bottom of the brim is stamped USMC.

        Oh, there I go again running off things that really don't need to be said. But I enjoy this forum very much and consider everybody on it as a good friend. As a matter of fact, some of them really are personal friends of mine (some of them on board the Iowa).
        Rusty, you are fortunate indeed. My uncle, a fire department captain in Butte, Montana, being of typical 1st generation Irish constitution, liked his Jameson's. He was living alone at the time, and came home one night, and either passed out or slipped in the bathroom, but either way fell and hit his head on the tub. No skull fracture or internal damage either, but he literally lay there and bled out from a stupid scalp wound . . . and somewhat thinner blood owing to the Jameson's. You have great neighbors partner, that's all I can say.

        I will be out there maybe as early as Monday, but I won't call you till after Christmas and see where we stand. Which reminds me, is there anyone available who was maybe a Machinist's Mate in a former life who can take me down to that shaft seal? You of course are welcome to tag along, but I imagine vertical ladders down to the shaft alley wouldn't necessarily be recommended right now, yes? I also need to see the DC Plates because I want to trace out the cooling water supply line to the seal. It just may be that it isn't the seal that is leaking at all, but a valve off the fire and flushing main to the cooling water line. Those are often the "usual suspects" in things like this. We may just be able to throw a wrench on a hand wheel and put some torque on it, or throw a pancake into a flange fitting, and problem solved. We'll see.

        Comment


        • Well wishes ....

          Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
          I bow to your CORRECT recollection as to who hit what. Well I have been mixing things up a bit since Sunday night. The weakness in my left knee gave out and I fell backwards in our dining room. Unfortunately I hit my head against the wood-carved toy chest we keep there for our grandchildren when they come over. That was about 2030 hours. Thanks to having the world's best neighbors they came running over when they saw the paramedics pull up................................................ .......................

          Oh, there I go again running off things that really don't need to be said. But I enjoy this forum very much and consider everybody on it as a good friend. As a matter of fact, some of them really are personal friends of mine (some of them on board the Iowa).
          Mr. L,

          I wish you the best in a great recovery. All of the thread followers appreciate the knowledge and contributions ( and the Yellow Book, too) you offer. :)

          Comment


          • The Arizona's hull was tested a few years ago and they found the lower parts were in much better condition than they expected.

            Eight 10 cm (4 in) diameter hull samples (coupons) were removed, four each from port and starboard sides near midship, at vertical positions from 5 ft (1.5m) to just below the mudline at 34 ft (10.4m). Corrosion rate was determined by subtracting final thickness from original thickness and dividing the difference by the submerged time interval, 61 years. Fig. 3 is a port side bar graph of hull plate thickness as a function of water depth [2]. At 5 ft (1.5m), the metal loss is over 50% of original thickness due to fresh seawater exposure on both sides. At 19.5 ft (6m), the loss is less than 25%, at 26 ft (8m) and lower, the loss is less than 15%.

            http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...ext=chemfacpub

            Comment


            • Let's hear it for the Cornhuskers ....

              Originally posted by ChrisV71 View Post
              The Arizona's hull was tested a few years ago and they found the lower parts were in much better condition than they expected.

              Eight 10 cm (4 in) diameter hull samples (coupons) were removed, four each from port and starboard sides near midship, at vertical positions from 5 ft (1.5m) to just below the mudline at 34 ft (10.4m). Corrosion rate was determined by subtracting final thickness from original thickness and dividing the difference by the submerged time interval, 61 years. Fig. 3 is a port side bar graph of hull plate thickness as a function of water depth [2]. At 5 ft (1.5m), the metal loss is over 50% of original thickness due to fresh seawater exposure on both sides. At 19.5 ft (6m), the loss is less than 25%, at 26 ft (8m) and lower, the loss is less than 15%.

              http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...ext=chemfacpub
              Very good read! ;)

              Remember, this is the same academic institution that gave us the " Nebraska Tractor Test ".......

              Comment


              • Rusty,

                Glad to hear your back amongst the living!!! We now have 7 staples in common - mine this summer in the forehead. Won't go into it here & now, but bifocals & squirrel guards are not a good mix!:bang:

                Hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas, etc. - wish I had a BB to visit over the holidays (NC is close, but scheduling is not workable).

                Later,

                Hank

                Comment


                • Glad to hear you have a thick skull but I already knew that. However, the more important thing in this whole episode is how the posterior and middle cerebral arteries handle the shock. Three months ago my father did the same thing. he woke up from one of his nightmares and slipped hitting his left temporal region, above the eye, causing a laceration which bled quite a bit. He was home by himself for a few days. I talk to him two days afterwards, first time I know, and he tells me the story and that he know feels a little dizzy. He didn't go to a doctor and now I am telling him to call his doctor as we may need an MRI to see if there is any internal bleeding. A hemorrhage in the brain is almost always the actual cause to take one's life and a fall hitting the head. So hopefully you have tough and elastic arteries.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ChrisV71 View Post
                    The Arizona's hull was tested a few years ago and they found the lower parts were in much better condition than they expected.

                    Eight 10 cm (4 in) diameter hull samples (coupons) were removed, four each from port and starboard sides near midship, at vertical positions from 5 ft (1.5m) to just below the mudline at 34 ft (10.4m). Corrosion rate was determined by subtracting final thickness from original thickness and dividing the difference by the submerged time interval, 61 years. Fig. 3 is a port side bar graph of hull plate thickness as a function of water depth [2]. At 5 ft (1.5m), the metal loss is over 50% of original thickness due to fresh seawater exposure on both sides. At 19.5 ft (6m), the loss is less than 25%, at 26 ft (8m) and lower, the loss is less than 15%.

                    http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...ext=chemfacpub
                    Very interesting. For an active ship, the Navy's limit of structural plating deterioration is 25%. But I don't think the Arizona is going to be going anywhere for a very long time. And being underwater, the rust build up actually acts as a barrier against more oxidation/corrosion/erosion to build up.
                    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                      Rusty, you are fortunate indeed. My uncle, a fire department captain in Butte, Montana, being of typical 1st generation Irish constitution, liked his Jameson's. He was living alone at the time, and came home one night, and either passed out or slipped in the bathroom, but either way fell and hit his head on the tub. No skull fracture or internal damage either, but he literally lay there and bled out from a stupid scalp wound . . . and somewhat thinner blood owing to the Jameson's. You have great neighbors partner, that's all I can say.

                      I will be out there maybe as early as Monday, but I won't call you till after Christmas and see where we stand. Which reminds me, is there anyone available who was maybe a Machinist's Mate in a former life who can take me down to that shaft seal? You of course are welcome to tag along, but I imagine vertical ladders down to the shaft alley wouldn't necessarily be recommended right now, yes? I also need to see the DC Plates because I want to trace out the cooling water supply line to the seal. It just may be that it isn't the seal that is leaking at all, but a valve off the fire and flushing main to the cooling water line. Those are often the "usual suspects" in things like this. We may just be able to throw a wrench on a hand wheel and put some torque on it, or throw a pancake into a flange fitting, and problem solved. We'll see.
                      Well, I don't know if we have a copy of the Iowa's DC plates. We used copies of the Missouri's DC plates for guidance. If there isn't a set on board, you will have to come over to my house to pick out the plates you need.

                      Also, you will have to check with Mike Gertscher to see if he has any MM's or Shop 38 people on board.
                      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                        Glad to hear you have a thick skull but I already knew that. However, the more important thing in this whole episode is how the posterior and middle cerebral arteries handle the shock. Three months ago my father did the same thing. he woke up from one of his nightmares and slipped hitting his left temporal region, above the eye, causing a laceration which bled quite a bit. He was home by himself for a few days. I talk to him two days afterwards, first time I know, and he tells me the story and that he know feels a little dizzy. He didn't go to a doctor and now I am telling him to call his doctor as we may need an MRI to see if there is any internal bleeding. A hemorrhage in the brain is almost always the actual cause to take one's life and a fall hitting the head. So hopefully you have tough and elastic arteries.
                        Yes, us old geezers can often be stubborn. But I called the Paramedics myself, got up off the floor by crawling to the dining room table to pull myself up and unlocked the door for the LBFD.

                        I also kept my sense of humor. At the hospital when they asked if I ever feel shortness of breath or increased heart pumping, I replied, "It all depends upon how high the make up is on Taylor Swift in her last photo shoot."

                        Heck, my cardiologist said I had a major heart attack some time ago. Oh really? Nobody told me about it. Oh well, might as well go on the Internet and look for the latest photo shoots of Eva Longoria.

                        Hmmmm. Maybe I should look for those DC plates desertswo needs. They are in one of two (or is it three) stacks somewhere in this icy cold back room "office" of mine (originally built as an attached one car [very narrow car] garage).

                        And my heartfelt thanks to all of you concerned about me. But I'm sort of used to bouncing off of hard surfaces and sharp edges (Self defense lessons, collapsing staging on the side of a ship and making like a handball inside an M-41A1 tank).
                        Last edited by RustyBattleship; 19 Dec 14,, 08:33.
                        Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
                          Yes, us old geezers can often be stubborn. But I called the Paramedics myself, got up off the floor by crawling to the dining room table to pull myself up and unlocked the door for the LBFD.

                          I also kept my sense of humor. At the hospital when they asked if I ever feel shortness of breath or increased heart pumping, I replied, "It all depends upon how high the make up is on Taylor Swift in her last photo shoot."

                          Heck, my cardiologist said I had a major heart attack some time ago. Oh really? Nobody told me about it. Oh well, might as well go on the Internet and look for the latest photo shoots of Eva Longoria.

                          Hmmmm. Maybe I should look for those DC plates desertswo needs. They are in one of two (or is it three) stacks somewhere in this icy cold back room "office" of mine (originally built as an attached one car [very narrow car] garage).

                          And my heartfelt thanks to all of you concerned about me. But I'm sort of used to bouncing off of hard surfaces and sharp edges (Self defense lessons, collapsing staging on the side of a ship and making like a handball inside an M-41A1 tank).
                          Hey Rusty, don't trouble yourself on the DC plates. I can do it the old fashioned way and just go hand over hand. It's no big deal. I just wanted to make sure that if I try to get two valve protection on that cooling water line that I don't knock an AC or something off line doing it. You no how no good deed goes unpunished.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                            Hey Rusty, don't trouble yourself on the DC plates. I can do it the old fashioned way and just go hand over hand. It's no big deal. I just wanted to make sure that if I try to get two valve protection on that cooling water line that I don't knock an AC or something off line doing it. You no how no good deed goes unpunished.
                            Captain, I appreciate that very much. But you will find just how stubborn this grandson of a Don Cossack can be. When I do "limp" aboard the Iowa with my cane, I make an excuse to go up to the volunteer office to get a cup of coffee. Instead, I sneak off and practice going up and down both 65 degree ladders and vertical ladders using my arms and one good leg. The left knee still has enough "strength" to help my balance.

                            When we started modernizing the Battleships in the 1980's and I was appointed Structural Configuration Manager for all four, somebody foolishly asked me where are we ever going to send or use a Battleship. My stock answer was, "Wherever she WANTS to go."

                            And that's the way I am. I'm not the tumbler I used to be in High School. I'm not the High Man anymore who climbed up to the Aircraft Warning light on the German Crane, I'm not the Snorkel Diver anymore with my brother looking for Abalone. Thouogh I would like to take an M41A1 tank out one more time and show them how to pull Brodies with it. But as age creeps up, things change. You ADAPT. That's what makes us Cro-Magnons outlive than the Neanderthals. We adapt and modify our movements (if we can) so we can still get our job done (or at least do what we LIKE to do).

                            Hmmm. Brings up another subject. Cro-Magnons appeared long before Neanderthals died out. Only a few humans show faint traces of Neanderthal in them hinting at some cross-breeding (if they didn't look like Racquel Welch or Bridget Bardot [in their heyday of the 60's] my generation would have stopped right then and there). But most modern humans have NO traces of Neanderthal DNA. So, where did we come from? Oh oh!. The Ancient Alien believers are going to jump on that one. Sorry about that.

                            Anyway, I WILL meet you on board the Battleship Iowa come hell or high water. (Damn those boarding brows are steep at High Tide). Oh, skip Dec 26 as I have (yet) another Doctor's appointment then.
                            Last edited by RustyBattleship; 20 Dec 14,, 07:27.
                            Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                            Comment


                            • ...and I remember when you and I went aboard her while at Suisun in 2010 your team leader told me not to let you go down below the second deck. As you can all tell that didn't work out real well as we got down much further than that.

                              Comment


                              • Random question: What's the deck footage of an Iowa?
                                RIP Charles "Bob" Spence. 1936-2014.

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