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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by ArmorPiercing88 View Post
    What did your new director do to violate the donation agreement?
    " disposal of the ship or any part of the vessel" for a start as there is now a non-approved modification on the O2 Level now.

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  • ArmorPiercing88
    replied
    So the Missour is in the best material condition of the 4 because of air conditioning? I was thinking more about the (remote) possibility of needing to be returned to service. They obviously wouldn't be able to bring back all 4. Aren't Wisconsin and Missouri in substantially better shape than Iowa and New Jersey, which would likely become parts bins?

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  • ArmorPiercing88
    replied
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Donation agreements for all ships on NavSea

    http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Team...eum-Contracts/

    In Iowas contract, Section 4, nothing can be done without approval from the California State Historic Preservation Officer. Hornet's doesn't directly mention the SHPO, but does say the Hornet must abide by all Federal, State, and local regulations in the preservation of the ship. We also have section 2k where the ship must get written approval from the Secretary of the Navy before transfer or disposal of the ship or any part of the vessel. This is the section that our new Director violated and the Navy has been notified.
    What did your new director do to violate the donation agreement?

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  • Pacfanweb
    replied
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Donation agreements for all ships on NavSea

    http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Team...eum-Contracts/

    In Iowas contract, Section 4, nothing can be done without approval from the California State Historic Preservation Officer. Hornet's doesn't directly mention the SHPO, but does say the Hornet must abide by all Federal, State, and local regulations in the preservation of the ship. We also have section 2k where the ship must get written approval from the Secretary of the Navy before transfer or disposal of the ship or any part of the vessel. This is the section that our new Director violated and the Navy has been notified.
    Yep, and on the Wisconsin's contract (and the other Iowas, I'd think) it says this, which is what I was referring to earlier:

    "Donee shall maintain the Vessel in a condition satisfactory to the Secretary given the Vessel's status, no worse than the current condition"
    Given that the "current condition" was that the ships were in Inactive Reserve and able to be recalled in a certain time frame, I'd say that implies that they must be maintained in such a condition, other than normal wear and tear...which is mentioned later. So that throws out making any major modifications.

    It also states, after saying they need permission to do just about anything to the ship, "any alterations of the Vessel must preserve the capability of being reverted by the Navy, in the event the Navy requests the Donee return the Vessel"

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  • RustyBattleship
    replied
    Originally posted by Pacfanweb View Post
    That's probably one for Rusty, but I'd think Missouri is in the best shape of all, since she was just out of the water a few years ago and totally sandblasted and repainted. I think she might get a little more "attention", given her location in Pearl Harbor.

    But again, that's really one for Rusty. Judging by the pics of Iowa, looks like her innards are in fine shape as well, and other than the obvious with Turret 2 being inop, she might well be in the best shape.
    Yeah, I guess that is more in my area than anyone else's. The fact is that Missouri was the first of the four to be donated and between the Iowa Class Preservation Association (ICPA) and the team of Battleships experts I put together from LBNSY and NAVSEA I created DREADNAUGHT CONSULTING and drew the plans for visitor routes, dehumidification machine relocations, etc. The mos complex plans were for installing the ship's own Air Conditioning system without using the York plants still on board that would require opening up the intake and discharge openings in the bottom shell plating of the ship.

    Stan Lintner was our HVAC expert (and past Assistant Chief Engineer of LBNSY) who actually designed the new system based upon the Carrier plants the Hawaii group wanted. I did the drawings on Coral Draw, Stan checked them out and red penciled corrections and finally signed them off. The structural drawings I had checked by Larry Levy who was one of our Design supervisors and holds a Masters degree in Naval Architecture.

    The plants are installed on the 03 level and "hidden" between the armored box launchers. Not only to get them out of sight (sort of) but the ABL's help muffle (or redirect) the noise they make.

    So when it came for me to speak up to the Los Angeles Harbor Department in San Pedro to get the Iowa in, I related to the volunteer list of shipfitters, welders, machinists, electricians, riggers, engineers and draftsmen all signed in under my name -- I made special note to the committee that they all worked on the New Jersey and Missouri and some of us also did inspections on the Iowa and Wisconsin for their 1980's reactivation.

    My concluding words were: "We are not some people who have read a book on Battleships, WE ARE THE PROFESSIONALS".
    Last edited by RustyBattleship; 03 Jul 16,, 04:35.

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by Pacfanweb View Post
    You thought wrong, apparently.

    If you go look at the donation agreement, it specifically says the museums are to maintain the ships in the same condition they received them in. And that's AFTER they came off inactive reserve. Pretty much means they can't change them any way they want.
    Donation agreements for all ships on NavSea

    http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Team...eum-Contracts/

    In Iowas contract, Section 4, nothing can be done without approval from the California State Historic Preservation Officer. Hornet's doesn't directly mention the SHPO, but does say the Hornet must abide by all Federal, State, and local regulations in the preservation of the ship. We also have section 2k where the ship must get written approval from the Secretary of the Navy before transfer or disposal of the ship or any part of the vessel. This is the section that our new Director violated and the Navy has been notified.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pacfanweb
    replied
    Originally posted by ArmorPiercing88 View Post
    Isn't the Missouri in the best shape after Wisconsin?
    That's probably one for Rusty, but I'd think Missouri is in the best shape of all, since she was just out of the water a few years ago and totally sandblasted and repainted. I think she might get a little more "attention", given her location in Pearl Harbor.

    But again, that's really one for Rusty. Judging by the pics of Iowa, looks like her innards are in fine shape as well, and other than the obvious with Turret 2 being inop, she might well be in the best shape.

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  • ArmorPiercing88
    replied
    Isn't the Missouri in the best shape after Wisconsin?

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  • Pacfanweb
    replied
    Originally posted by ArmorPiercing88 View Post
    So why didn't I see any of those tags on the New Jersey, but they're all over the Iowa? I thought all the restrictions on the Iowa and Wisconsin had been lifted, and the museums were free to do whatever they wanted at this point, even if it meant compromising the ship's military utility or ability to be reactivated if needed.
    You thought wrong, apparently.

    If you go look at the donation agreement, it specifically says the museums are to maintain the ships in the same condition they received them in. And that's AFTER they came off inactive reserve. Pretty much means they can't change them any way they want.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArmorPiercing88
    replied
    So why didn't I see any of those tags on the New Jersey, but they're all over the Iowa? I thought all the restrictions on the Iowa and Wisconsin had been lifted, and the museums were free to do whatever they wanted at this point, even if it meant compromising the ship's military utility or ability to be reactivated if needed.

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    This maybe the same shot
    Attached Files

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by ArmorPiercing88 View Post
    Saw this cool video of some of the off limits areas on the Iowa. Question: What are all the red tags that seem to be all over the place? Lots on the bridge and in the gun plot rooms, also engineering. What are they for? I didn't see any of those on the New Jersey.

    Here's a link to the video.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW83U4bkC_k

    My shot of the lookout, O11, and O12 I believe
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Squirrel
    replied
    Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
    I fully agree. One of the last fatal casualties we had at LBNSY was where the switch for elevating the aircraft elevator stanchions was not red tagged. I forget which Carrier it was on, but while a technician was working on the system, he was lying over the top of the depressed stanchions. When they were erroneously elevated, he was literally impaled on one of them and pinned to the overhead bordering the elevator platform.

    In other words, if it is RED tagged; DON'T TOUCH.
    That is an awful way to lose a life. Personally, I found PMA to be more dangerous than being u/w. It's a freaking circus. Unfortunately, no matter how much the command may stress safety and keeping your head on a swivel, these things happen. And usually it's not the casualty's fault.

    I know that Sailors and contractors might have a somewhat contentious relationship, but at the end of the day we rely on eachother.

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  • RustyBattleship
    replied
    Originally posted by Squirrel View Post
    Those are danger tags, meaning that equipment is "tagged out" and is secured for maintenance or repair. Basically those tags mean you can kill someone by energizing those circuits or running water/steam through fixtures.

    So don't gundeck your maintenance, shipmate. Messing up a tag out or failing to tag out your equipment is a quick ticket to the Mast Express.
    I fully agree. One of the last fatal casualties we had at LBNSY was where the switch for elevating the aircraft elevator stanchions was not red tagged. I forget which Carrier it was on, but while a technician was working on the system, he was lying over the top of the depressed stanchions. When they were erroneously elevated, he was literally impaled on one of them and pinned to the overhead bordering the elevator platform.

    In other words, if it is RED tagged; DON'T TOUCH.

    Leave a comment:


  • Squirrel
    replied
    Originally posted by ArmorPiercing88 View Post
    Saw this cool video of some of the off limits areas on the Iowa. Question: What are all the red tags that seem to be all over the place? Lots on the bridge and in the gun plot rooms, also engineering. What are they for? I didn't see any of those on the New Jersey.

    Here's a link to the video.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW83U4bkC_k
    Those are danger tags, meaning that equipment is "tagged out" and is secured for maintenance or repair. Basically those tags mean you can kill someone by energizing those circuits or running water/steam through fixtures.

    So don't gundeck your maintenance, shipmate. Messing up a tag out or failing to tag out your equipment is a quick ticket to the Mast Express.
    Last edited by Squirrel; 30 Jun 16,, 22:00.

    Leave a comment:

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