Ask An Expert- Battleships

[Dreadnought]

Rusty, are you referring to the "trash can" mounted at about Frame 135?

Sending you message here on WAB.

[Dreadnought]

Awright guys. I've finally been zeroed in on an item of the Iowa class Battleships that I cannot answer or even research.

I need the weight of the AS-3018A/WSC-1(V) satcom antenna. You know, the one that looks like a giant Tuna can. I can find pictures of it, manufacturers of it, useless (to me) technical information of how it works. But I cannot find a single web site that will tell me how much the darn thing weighs.

Any of you guys out there know for sure? Remember I need the exact weight of the antenna AND its pedestal support. I cannot go by guesses as I have to take that weight, divide by 2240, multiply by moment arm and then divide again by 6600.

Ah, I see the old bean is doing stress and strains for bending moments? Brains cells a cookin.;)

[RustyBattleship]

Rusty, are you referring to the "trash can" mounted at about Frame 135?

Sending you message here on WAB.

Actually two of them. One on 010 level fwd and one on after stack.

[MattR]

I need the weight of the AS-3018A/WSC-1(V) satcom antenna.

The antenna size (diameter x depth) is 1.37m x 0.85m (54" x 33").

The antenna weight is 133 kg (295 lbs).

[MattR]

A discussion is taking place elsewhere on how to re-engine the Iowas. One of the ideas was to make use of the existing uptakes to install new equipments inside and/or remove old stuff from the boiler rooms.

One gentleman observed that :

However, there are two problems left hanging: the armor gratings across the smoke pipes at the level of the protective deck, which I think are 8" thick with regularly spaced perforations, and the necessity of getting a reduction/combining gear into the space somehow. No way an object as big as the MTU 8000 20V is going down the stack without first removing the gratings. I doubt they were ever designed to be removed, and while I'm not positive they are Class A armor, they are certainly not something that can be manufactured today in any existing facility. So, you could cut them up and remove them in pieces to allow access to the boiler rooms through the exhaust, but you'd be leaving that part of the ship vulnerable to air attack. Same thing goes for the belt armor, antitorpedo bulkheads, and protective deck. So, there's no good way of getting the new machinery into the spaces, or even of getting the old machinery out, although of course that could, at great cost in labor, be cut up in place and the pieces hauled out through the escape trunks.

Questions I'd have for the resident BB experts (Dick L. in particular) are :

1) What are the exact dimensions of the existing uptakes / intakes ?

2) Where are the armor gratings mentioned above ? How thick are they ? What are they made of (Class A ? Class B ?) ?

3) How easy / difficult would it be to remove (and re-install) said gratings ? E.g. are these gratings bolted to the rest of the deck, or welded ?

4) Assuming gratings can be removed / re-installed, how big a piece of equipment could one be able to move up and/down through the existing uptakes ? I.e. what would be the max. length * width * height of this equipment (rough estimate welcome) ?

Some of Dick L.'s wonderful diagrams would be hugely appreciated for illustration purposes.

[RustyBattleship]

The antenna size is 1.37m x 0.85m (54" x 33").

The antenna weight is 133 kg (295 lbs).

Is that the weight of the antenna only or does it include its pedestal foundation? I need the pedestal weight as well.

[RustyBattleship]

A discussion is taking place elsewhere on how to re-engine the Iowas. One of the ideas was to make use of the existing uptakes to install new equipments inside and/or remove old stuff from the boiler rooms.

One gentleman observed that :



Questions I'd have for the resident BB experts (Dick L. in particular) are :

1) What are the exact dimensions of the existing uptakes / intakes ?

2) Where are the armor gratings mentioned above ? How thick are they ? What are they made of (Class A ? Class B ?) ?

3) How easy / difficult would it be to remove (and re-install) said gratings ? E.g. are these gratings bolted to the rest of the deck, or welded ?

4) Assuming gratings can be removed / re-installed, how big a piece of equipment could one be able to move up and/down through the existing uptakes ? I.e. what would be the max. length * width * height of this equipment (rough estimate welcome) ?

Some of Dick L.'s wonderful diagrams would be hugely appreciated for illustration purposes.

I'm in a time crunch right now so I can only answer briefly. The armored gratings for the intakes AND exhausts are mounted in the Main Deck and 2nd Deck. The Main Deck gratings are about 6-inches thick and the 2nd Deck gratings about 8-inches thick. They are staggered fore and aft so a vertical hit might go through one but not the other as it is about 8 to 12 feet away.

The largest holes in both gratings are 5 15/16" in diameter. That would catch a 6" diameter shell and prevent it from going further down.

Also they are all made of STS (Special Treated Steel) that is the basis for Class B armor (just heat treating is a little different). Being high in nickel and chromium content they can only be welded with 25-20 stainless steel welding rods. Stainless Steel weld CANNOT be cut with an Oxy-Acetylene torch because of the low carbon content that won't allow oxidation of the Oxygen cutting jet. It would have to be "chopped" out with carbon-arc which is noisy, dirty, smokey, smelly and leaves horribly rough edges.

Gotta go now. See yah.

[MattR]

Is that the weight of the antenna only or does it include its pedestal foundation? I need the pedestal weight as well.

I strongly suspect that the figure of 295 lbs doesn't include the weight of the motorized pedestal. Not 100% sure though.

[MattR]

I'm in a time crunch right now so I can only answer briefly. The armored gratings for the intakes AND exhausts are mounted in the Main Deck and 2nd Deck. The Main Deck gratings are about 6-inches thick and the 2nd Deck gratings about 8-inches thick. They are staggered fore and aft so a vertical hit might go through one but not the other as it is about 8 to 12 feet away.

The largest holes in both gratings are 5 15/16" in diameter. That would catch a 6" diameter shell and prevent it from going further down.

Also they are all made of STS (Special Treated Steel) that is the basis for Class B armor (just heat treating is a little different). Being high in nickel and chromium content they can only be welded with 25-20 stainless steel welding rods. Stainless Steel weld CANNOT be cut with an Oxy-Acetylene torch because of the low carbon content that won't allow oxidation of the Oxygen cutting jet. It would have to be "chopped" out with carbon-arc which is noisy, dirty, smokey, smelly and leaves horribly rough edges.

Gotta go now. See yah.

Thanks for the response.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts on the subject whenever time permits.

Best regards.

[Dreadnought]

IMO, If you attempt to "re engine" the Iowas then you will have to compromise her armor decks (all of them). Being Pre-Atomic bomb era armor (since the US like most other nations utilized open pit mining techniques from then forward) they would never be the same again and have nowhere near the integrity they share now. IMO, unless you spent the R&D in this day and age (billions) nowhere near close and doubtful the USN would even consider it a possibility or option. There is nothing wrong with them. Every Sea trial they performed they perfomed up to spec for their criteria ratings. The biggest fault is they guzzle fossil fuel.

[USSWisconsin]

The Iowa's are now 70 yrs old - IMO, it makes no sense to rebuild them. They have already served their useful purpose as warships and now fulfill equally useful purposes as museums. New ships, will be the best solution - rebuilding antiques is not economical or practical - at best a rebuild would be inferior to new construction - and most important, battleships are not needed today. Their role has been made obsolete by changes in the complexion of naval warfare, submarines, carriers and destroyers now fill these needs, and a battleship would be expensive and impractical to these requirements - I don't like it - but its the way it is.

[RustyBattleship]

Thanks for the response.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts on the subject whenever time permits.

Best regards.

One other quick point: When we designed and installed the armored Tomahawk equipment deck houses, we welded them right over the riveted access plates that were originally installed in WW II for change out or removal of any of the main machinery down below.

So you would have to scrap all of that superstructure as well.

Then we have always had some problems with riveted hulls as time goes on rivets will corrode and loosen up thus breaking the caulk seam of the overlapped hull plates. That leaves you two choices, weld up all those thousands upon thousands of rivets and a couple of miles of shell plate laps (both INSIDE & OUTSIDS) or cut all the shell plating off and install new plating of all welded construction.

Heck, you'd be better off just building a new ship. If the Navy ever got the funding for such a ship that combines big guns with missile capabilities (perhaps ASW as well) and wanted to hire designers --- the line forms behind me.

[Dreadnought]

As far as being fit for service. Letter from the CNO 1995. As you can see they were indeed fit for future service (all 4) however, they did not fit in with Naval budgets nor planning for their future upgrades. They began to retire in 1991 further proving that although they retired they were well cared for even after being struck as they are today. You will notice in the end of the letter that it will only happen with SecNavs approval and they are all still well cared for today (air conditioned and heated) with exception of Iowa at present. Im pretty certain though once she is awarded a home this will also happen.

[MattR]

One other quick point: When we designed and installed the armored Tomahawk equipment deck houses, we welded them right over the riveted access plates that were originally installed in WW II for change out or removal of any of the main machinery down below.

Interesting !

Where are these riveted access plates located (which frames, which decks) and what are their dimensions (length * width) ?

[MattR]

One more question if I may : what are the dimensions of the boiler rooms and engine rooms on the Iowas ?

I've read that they both had a length of 32 feet, but what about their width ?