Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ask An Expert- Battleships

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Burnet
    replied
    Rusty, out of respect for you, I have avoided asking about the 'incident', [I have read all 105 pages of this thread] and wasn't asking about that.

    What I was really wanting to get at is what are the relative merits of reblending propellant--especially if the old stuff is still good--versus manufacturing new stuff vs. sticking with the tried and true? What are the pros and cons and cost benefits?

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
    On the New Jersey, I think the grey bottles would be an inert gas of Nitrogen used in silver soldering copper. They are very close to frame 115 where we have an expansion joint running up the P&S weather bhds and across 03 level. It was back in those days when ther "flexible" trough for the expansion joint before rubber was used. I recall the Old Timers complaining about the hours they had to spend silver soldering cracks in that copper sheeting.

    On the Honolulu, the only "bottles" that caught my attention were 7 (possibly 8) "silvery" milk jugs stacked up 01 level for unloading. I suspect UNloading as a couple of the jugs are just tossed upon each other. Hopefully their replenishment jugs have already been loaded and stowed in their reefers.

    Well, being from Wisconsin, I've seen HUNDREDS of milk jugs like that. Also, being from Milwaukee I am 100% positive they are not beer barrels.
    After reading Albany Rifles post where he said milk jugs I was going what! You know when I pulled out that picture I can't say the milk jugs, at the top of the ladder, even made an impression on me. I was focused of the gas tanks behind that ladder. Took those two posts for me to take a look to see WTH are these two talking about.

    Leave a comment:


  • RustyBattleship
    replied
    Originally posted by Burnet View Post
    Was the rebagging of the propellant for the 16" guns done before or after the New Jersey's '83 use off Lebanon? Is it true that the rebagged charges were discarded after that and replaced with original unblended bags?
    I was never cut in on that phase of the "incident". But I do know a lot of WW II vintage ammo was used in Viet Nam. I recall an article where a soldier in a mortar team noticed a note on the cardboard box of his mortar round saying (something like) "If you want a real hot date soldier, call me at {phone number)". He noticed the date on the box was around 1943 or so.

    After returning to the States, he did some deep research into who that "Rosie the Riveter" really was. Of course, she was well beyond his age for a date, BUT he did locate her and gave her the ammo box back and told her it really lifted his spirits and gave him a good laugh.

    If old ammo can be properly preserved, it's still good as new. Back in the mid-fifties or so I traded an ammo box of lead cuttings from some nuclear shielding we were doing for a box of .30-06 AP with a gunsmith I knew then. Since you can't find National Match anymore, I found that AP prints the same (with the exception of one round of about 25 may be a tad too hot and print high - with a tougher recoil to match). Going through my ammo last year, I found much of it growing black spots from finger prints, etc. (I now use only plastic boxes). So I went to Harbor Freight, bought a double drum polisher and its good as new.

    For example, while up on some land we have in Oregon, I tested one of those AP rounds from my M-1 Garand. Interesting. It went through 2 1/4" (3 plates 3/4" thick each) of Resin Impregnated Kevlar Armor and if there wasn't a rock behind them that AP core would still be going.

    I'll stick to steel, thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Burnet
    replied
    Was the rebagging of the propellant for the 16" guns done before or after the New Jersey's '83 use off Lebanon? Is it true that the rebagged charges were discarded after that and replaced with original unblended bags?

    Leave a comment:


  • RustyBattleship
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Thanks gang. Appreciate the info. It all makes logical sense. I have read lots of books on the Navy in World War 2 (both fiction & nonfiction) and of course you can't help but read stories about DC. But never thought where they stored the gas bottles. Cleared that right up for me.

    And while I started to think about the hazard aspect I also started to remember that as a Rifle Company Commander I had 1800 rounds of 7.62mm ammo strapped to the outside of my Bradley turret...which I was sticking my head out of!

    2 things caught my eye when looking at the USS Honolulu...

    1. Like Dick, I noticed the milk jugs.

    2. The Chicago Piano...aka the 1.1"/75 Caliber Gun Quad AA Guns. I wonder in her 2 major yard refits (she was hit twice by torpedoes) if they ever swapped thewm out for Quad or Twin 40s?
    Try punching up this link -- http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/ -- It often gives you other links that record the history of special ships or at least that class of ships.

    Leave a comment:


  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Thanks gang. Appreciate the info. It all makes logical sense. I have read lots of books on the Navy in World War 2 (both fiction & nonfiction) and of course you can't help but read stories about DC. But never thought where they stored the gas bottles. Cleared that right up for me.

    And while I started to think about the hazard aspect I also started to remember that as a Rifle Company Commander I had 1800 rounds of 7.62mm ammo strapped to the outside of my Bradley turret...which I was sticking my head out of!

    2 things caught my eye when looking at the USS Honolulu...

    1. Like Dick, I noticed the milk jugs.

    2. The Chicago Piano...aka the 1.1"/75 Caliber Gun Quad AA Guns. I wonder in her 2 major yard refits (she was hit twice by torpedoes) if they ever swapped thewm out for Quad or Twin 40s?

    Leave a comment:


  • RustyBattleship
    replied
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    On the new Jersey you can see 14 bottles bottom left O2 level. Another group on O3 just above the first group. All are the same color except one. That same color happens to be a match for the bulkhead color so a grey. The dark one could either be green or red but I am leaning towards red based on how I recall it is rendered in B&W. Green would be a tad lighter. The two visible on the Honolulu look almost silvery.
    On the New Jersey, I think the grey bottles would be an inert gas of Nitrogen used in silver soldering copper. They are very close to frame 115 where we have an expansion joint running up the P&S weather bhds and across 03 level. It was back in those days when ther "flexible" trough for the expansion joint before rubber was used. I recall the Old Timers complaining about the hours they had to spend silver soldering cracks in that copper sheeting.

    On the Honolulu, the only "bottles" that caught my attention were 7 (possibly 8) "silvery" milk jugs stacked up 01 level for unloading. I suspect UNloading as a couple of the jugs are just tossed upon each other. Hopefully their replenishment jugs have already been loaded and stowed in their reefers.

    Well, being from Wisconsin, I've seen HUNDREDS of milk jugs like that. Also, being from Milwaukee I am 100% positive they are not beer barrels.

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    On the new Jersey you can see 14 bottles bottom left O2 level. Another group on O3 just above the first group. All are the same color except one. That same color happens to be a match for the bulkhead color so a grey. The dark one could either be green or red but I am leaning towards red based on how I recall it is rendered in B&W. Green would be a tad lighter. The two visible on the Honolulu look almost silvery.

    Leave a comment:


  • RustyBattleship
    replied
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Missouri 1945
    As for the photo of the USS Missouri (BB-63), there is quite a number of dark colored bottles on 01 level forward of Mount 54. Possibly CO2. But that's all I can guess at as in August of that year I was with my neighbor (Otto Eckman) "flying" our little plastic airplanes over my grandmother's bird bath in her back yard.

    Her bird bath was Tokyo Bay in our minds. Then she came running out of the house and ordered us to get away from the bird bath.

    We asked, "Why? We're not breaking anything".

    She answered, "You do not have to bomb Tokyo anymore. THE WAR IS OVER. JAPAN JUST AGREED TO SURRENDER".

    Then we heard the Church Bells, the factory sirens, the car horns blaring all over the city. I don't know how many trash can lids Otto and I destroyed beating on them.

    Sorry. Gotta go. Whenever I remember that day, even at 80 years old tears still come to my eyes.

    May all of you have fair winds and following seas.
    Last edited by RustyBattleship; 11 Sep 16,, 05:59.

    Leave a comment:


  • RustyBattleship
    replied
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Here you go. Look closely at bottom left.
    The three bottles I could pick out are of two different colors. But being a black & white photo, I can't tell if they are green, red, yellow or what.

    Now remember, I started work at LBNSY in 1954 as a Apprentice Shipfitter. The only Navy ships I was ever aboard before was a converted LST modified to be a WW II museum (with a Baka Rocket as soon as you walked aboard the ramp). That was about 1946 and she was berthed alongside Gimbels Dept Store in the Milwaukee River. Also did a quick tour on one of the Submarines (same location in Milwaukee) that was built at the Wisconsin shipyard up north. The first time I ever boarded a fully active, ready for war, ship was in 1952 (still in High School) after we moved to California and my step-father (who worked at LBNSY) took us down for an open house and I fell in love with the USS Wisconsin (BB-64) getting ready for her tour in Korea.

    Many ships I worked on later were of WW II vintage, BUT with some modifications to suit their missions in Korea. So as a shipfitter apprentice, if I was told to work with "Scully" to install some bottle racks along a bulkhead, that's what I did. I never saw the bottles installed and I was never told what they were for.

    By the way, "Scully" was one hell of a shipfitter. I worked a double shift with him doing some repairs on the USS Bremerton (CA-130).

    As time went on, hundreds of changes were made as to what was stowed where and why it was stowed there. But in WW II, you stowed anything and everything you could wherever there was a space for it.
    Last edited by RustyBattleship; 11 Sep 16,, 05:57.

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Cl-48 Honolulu
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Missouri 1945
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    The New Jersey 1945
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Looking at the photo of the model in post 1533. they are mounted on the main deck between the 2 5 inch gun mounts.

    Did ships in WW 2 normally have these out on the weather decks?

    Thanks
    Here you go. Look closely at bottom left.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • RustyBattleship
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Looking at the photo of the model in post 1533. they are mounted on the main deck between the 2 5 inch gun mounts.

    Did ships in WW 2 normally have these out on the weather decks?

    Thanks
    Still not knowing what ship you are referring to (presumably a Battleship), compressed gas cylinders were stowed where ever they would fit ---- depending upon what the ship's next deployment would be. Normally gas bottles (even CO2 for fire extinguishing) are clamped to the bulkheads INSIDE the weather door entryway for some protection against shrapnel and/or small arms fire.

    But stowing extra CO2 bottles outside was not uncommon on ANY ship as it gave faster access to Damage Control teams to help put out fires.

    Yeah, the pressure inside could be hazardous if the bottle was hit by an 8 mm Mauser or 7.7 mm Arisaka and throw some shrapnel around that could ruin your day. But presumably if such a situation occurred, everyone would be at GQ by then and under some sort of protection.

    Back Pack type Oxy-Acetylene torches carried by DC fire fighting crews were stowed in DC lockers INSIDE the ship. If something could punch through the bulkheads (the outer bhd of a BB is 3/8" thick of A36 steel) and burst open the acetylene bottle in a DC locker, there are many more DC lockers aboard ship and scores of Damage Control trained crewmen to suppress any fire there.

    By the way, the reason for a torch is to cut open a bulkhead at deck level to let water go out that is flooding a compartment. Damage Controlman 2 & 3 give all the basics you need and can be downloaded off the Internet. I have even advised our own Los Angeles Fire Department that the only way to fight a fire aboard a ship is by compartment by compartment. You see, there has been at least one case (back east) where the fire departments tried to fight fires merely by using fire hydrants on the pier and from fire boats.

    They got the fire out. But the ship rolled over and sank.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X