Ask An Expert- Battleships

[bigjimslade]

Two more questions:

1. Is the New Jersey's Helipad higher than on the Iowa (WI, MO)? NJ's is 9" with 6" coaming. When I see pictures of the Iowa, its platform looks much higher.

2. What is the purpose of the elevator that is located behind the aftmost 5" turret found only on the RIGHT side, O1 to O3 level emerging below the aft Phalanx platform, between the harpoons and forward tomahawks. (Have pics but no link I can to post).

[Gun Grape]

Much easier now that everyone is on the same page.

If this is what you mean



Its a SatCom Antenna

[bigjimslade]

Ok then maybe this one from 1982 as I wasn't sure what year you all were discussing.

It's right there.

[tbm3fan]

Ok then maybe this one from 1982 as I wasn't sure what year you all were discussing.

[RustyBattleship]

Sorry old friend. Wrong version of the ship. That was her 1968 Viet Nam modification with AN/ULQ-6 ECM antennas mounted Port & Starboard with the LN-66(B) antennas at 09 level. In your first pic, you can also see that eardrum splitting fog horn mounted underneath the starboard "ear".

I think the original question was regarding her 1982 modernization where we put the LN-66 on top of the conning tower (05 1/2 level) and mounted the AS3016A/WSC-1(v) "Trash Can" antenna at the 011 level. Yes, we called that antenna the "Trash Can" because it looks like one.

Don't ask me what they are used for. If I need to change a socket or a light switch in my house, I turn off ALL power because the only way I can "feel" electricity is when its jolting 110 or 220 AC through me. I only need to know what their bolting pattern is, what room they need for rotation (if they move at all) and how much they weigh. My if my son-in-law is changing a light switch or socket, he only needs to know what wires to touch or not to touch and he's not standing in water.

And yet I put n the right antenna ID numbers? Yeah. I looked them up in the booklet of General Plans.

[tbm3fan]

Another from around April 1969.

[tbm3fan]

Might this help?

[Gun Grape]

On the NJ's forward tower there is is a platform at the level on the top of the "ears" that extends forward with prominent bracing underneath.

Mounted on that platform is an object that looks like a giant room fan. Does anyone know what that is?

Picture of the area would be helpful

[RustyBattleship]

On the NJ's forward tower there is is a platform at the level on the top of the "ears" that extends forward with prominent bracing underneath.

Mounted on that platform is an object that looks like a giant room fan. Does anyone know what that is?

That is a special type of antenna (remember, I'm not an electronics expert -- I only needed to know the weight so I could design a strong enough platform for it). It is shaped more like a big wash tub than a fan. During our 2nd gunnery trials I got a report that there was damage to the platform. The sea was a bit rough that day so I waited until the next day when the ship pulled into the leeward side of San Clemente Island. Then I climbed up there and out onto the platform. The platform was in perfect shape. But the cast aluminum mounting frame (that came with the antenna) had a crack in it.

All we had to do, after returning to Long Beach later in the week, was replace the factory supplied mounting frame and made notes not to fire a 16" gun at that particular angle again.

As an aside, that platform originally mounted the ship's whistle. I wanted to keep the ship's fog horn mounted on the starboard side, but it was too loud. When we did the finishing touches on her in 1968, we reactivated that fog horn. I was walking out to Pier 6 when the mechanics tested that steam powered fog horn.

I kid you not. My knees buckled because that dude was so loud you could hear it on Santa Catalina Island - 26 miles away.

[bigjimslade]

On the NJ's forward tower there is is a platform at the level on the top of the "ears" that extends forward with prominent bracing underneath.

Mounted on that platform is an object that looks like a giant room fan. Does anyone know what that is?

[RustyBattleship]

Regarding the Iowa turret video....the floors in there looked nasty. Since the guy was wearing plastic over his shoes, I assume that's all the preservative gunk he's standing on?

Yes for TWO reasons. One is, of course, for preservative. The other is for "skidding" the 16" shells along the deck to the hoists. Rather than the Gunners Mates also skidding, the projectiles are par-buckled over. That is using blocks and tackle. A third GM may be along an outer edge with his hands on the nose to help keep balance, but that is only when the ship is pitching and rolling.

On a dry deck (such as the main deck when the rounds are first delivered). A heavy duty dolly is used to roll them up to the strike down scuttles. Ummm, now how do you get a 1,900 lb (or even a 2,700 lb) "bullet" to "stand upright" when it is shipped aboard horizontal with two per pallet?

Strange thing about the center of gravity of those rounds plus their curved shape. It only takes two men (in better shape than me) to grab the round by the "nose" (it usually has a steel nose cap for protection AND grip) and stand it straight up onto the dolly's plate. If the strike down system is running a bit slow, it only takes two men to literally "walk" that round in over toward the strike down scuttle like moving an oil drum.

I inspected a full load out of the New Jersey at Seal Beach, and man, can those GM's move steel around. Hundreds of tons of projectiles, propellant cases (16" AND 5") and 20mm CIWS ammo. They start right after breakfast and are finished up by supper.

It takes longer to load up the Cruise Missiles (Tomahawks and Harpoons) where the ship HAS to be tied to a pier and a steady gantry crane loads them -- one at a time.

[Pacfanweb]

Regarding the Iowa turret video....the floors in there looked nasty. Since the guy was wearing plastic over his shoes, I assume that's all the preservative gunk he's standing on?

[RustyBattleship]

Watched the Iowa turret crawl video on Youtube. That was fascinating and is the only source I've found that fully explains how the powder and ammo move from the magazines to the gun room. I hope they do one on the propulsion system.

I placed an order for you book, I look forward to reading it. Any specific book recommendations on the evolution of US battleships focusing on the period between the New York class and the Iowa class fast battleships?

Thank you very much. By the way, the New Jersey has created an excellent video of their turret procedures.

[Burnet]

Watched the Iowa turret crawl video on Youtube. That was fascinating and is the only source I've found that fully explains how the powder and ammo move from the magazines to the gun room. I hope they do one on the propulsion system.

I placed an order for you book, I look forward to reading it. Any specific book recommendations on the evolution of US battleships focusing on the period between the New York class and the Iowa class fast battleships?

[RustyBattleship]

Rusty, out of respect for you, I have avoided asking about the 'incident', [I have read all 105 pages of this thread] and wasn't asking about that.

What I was really wanting to get at is what are the relative merits of reblending propellant--especially if the old stuff is still good--versus manufacturing new stuff vs. sticking with the tried and true? What are the pros and cons and cost benefits?

Sorry. Being one of the Configuration Managers of BB's at the Planning Yard, the incident always comes to mind first before anything else. See Chapter 29 of my book and you can feel my emotions about it. PLUS the fact the Iowa is only a 20 minute drive from my house.

But back to your general question about aging of munitions. Well, everything gets old. But some things age better than others. Modern rifle and pistol ammo is well encased and can be very effective many years later if stored PROPERLY. I've seen films of demolition teams retrieving poorly stored munitions (up to and including .50 caliber ammo) that were exposed to the weather too long of a time. They stacked it all up in a wide hole (about the size of crater a 155 mm would make), set a couple of satchel charges on top and blew it all up.

But be careful. We had a woman draftsman (drafts "person"?) who had an interest in antique guns. She brought in the powder flask one day to show off the quality of construction and design. When I picked it up, it didn't feel empty. So I poured just a little bit of that 000 black powder into an ash tray and lit it off. Yup! It was in that flask for 2 or 3 hundred years and still was usable. I flushed the rest down the toilet in the Men's Room.

Oh, but there is one way to make even modern ammo totally useless. Clean your all-up rounds with a dry cloth or a dry tooth brush if there is any green oxide starting to form around the primer.

NEVER EVER oil the bases of the ammo ESPECIALLY around the primer. The oil will seep in and kill the primer material. All you will get is a CLICK if you try to fire it. If you can get the book "Shots Fired in Anger" the author relates to an incident on an Island in the South Pacific (WW II) while on patrol they heard a "click, click, click, click, click" behind them. They turned around and a Japanese soldier had been hiding behind a tree when the patrol passed. Somehow he had gotten a Colt .45 Single Action revolver and cleaned it up very well and oiled it INCLUDING the ammo. Well the oil penetrated the primer and rather than having the pleasure of killing Americans with a museum quality American gun, he met his honorable ancestors instead.