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  • Question about Arizona Crew

    I have no idea if this is the place, but I have a question. While cleaning out some items, I came across some items that my granduncle Malcom Leigh GM3c was a crew member on the USS Arizona. After looking up the casualty list I found he was killed. Unfortunately I never even knew he was alive, and no one living in the family remembers anything about him as it was a subject the older generation didn't talk about.

    My question is this. What job would a GM3c do on the Arizona?

  • #2
    Originally posted by DaveinCoalinga View Post
    My question is this. What job would a GM3c do on the Arizona?
    That is his Rate, GM3c is a "Gunner's Mate, Third Class"

    His Pay Grade would be that of E-4, or Petty Officer Third Class

    The Navy's current definition for a Gunner's Mate's responsibilities is:

    "...the operation, maintenance, and troubleshooting of Naval guns and missile launchers as well as a strong emphasis on basic explosives, guidance and tracking systems, small arms, Naval ammunition classification, and safety."

    As a Gunner's Mate on a battleship of that era, he could possibly have operated and maintained anything from the big 14-inch guns, to the smaller 5-inch broadside and anti-aircraft guns
    “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
    ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    • #3
      Originally posted by DaveinCoalinga View Post
      I have no idea if this is the place, but I have a question. While cleaning out some items, I came across some items that my granduncle Malcom Leigh GM3c was a crew member on the USS Arizona. After looking up the casualty list I found he was killed. Unfortunately I never even knew he was alive, and no one living in the family remembers anything about him as it was a subject the older generation didn't talk about.

      My question is this. What job would a GM3c do on the Arizona?
      A GM3c Rank would be GM (Gunners Mate) 3rd class. Pay Grade of 4. Meaning he was a member of the gunnery crew. Where as it does not specify in the Gunners Mate Rankings which particular piece a Gunners Mate operates or maintenances since he was aboard the Arizona (as she was not outfitted for war service) it can only be of few choices:

      There are only 3 classes of Gunners Mates, 1st, 2nd and ofcoarse 3rd class respectively. So he would have manned any of the three listed below.

      a) 12 x 14"/45 Main Battery
      b) 14 x 5"/51, Seconday Battery
      c) 4 x 3"/50 Aux battery or AA battery


      Below would have been the insignia he would have worn on his uniform arm badge on the (right) side (It changed in 1948). The gunners mate patches have changed alot since WWII. An easy way of telling what era it is by looking at which direction the "crows head" is facing. The crows head should be facing to the right for WWII service and prior.
      Your family should be very proud of your grand uncles service aboard USS Arizona as a gunners mate.

      Hope this helps answer your question.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by Dreadnought; 09 Apr 10,, 20:35.
      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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      • #4
        Thanks to all. I understand men like my grampa's brother who island hopped during WWII and would never talk about it. All of us knew him and understood it was not a topic for conversation. But to find out about someone was weird.

        Again many thanks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
          That is his Rate, GM3c is a "Gunner's Mate, Third Class"

          His Pay Grade would be that of E-4, or Petty Officer Third Class

          The Navy's current definition for a Gunner's Mate's responsibilities is:

          "...the operation, maintenance, and troubleshooting of Naval guns and missile launchers as well as a strong emphasis on basic explosives, guidance and tracking systems, small arms, Naval ammunition classification, and safety."

          As a Gunner's Mate on a battleship of that era, he could possibly have operated and maintained anything from the big 14-inch guns, to the smaller 5-inch broadside and anti-aircraft guns
          *Ah but now days (and for sometime) your looking at E-7 (CPO) Status and an extension to the Gunners Mates rankings, You also now have GMM Gunners Mate Misslemen.;)

          Gunners Mate Rating Badge (new era) The "Crow" looks to the left.;)
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Dreadnought; 09 Apr 10,, 19:52.
          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
            So he would have manned any of the three listed below.

            a) 12 x 14"/45 Main Battery
            b) 14 x 5"/51, Seconday Battery
            c) 4 x 3"/50 Aux battery or AA battery
            Just a minor detail, but didn't Arizona have 5"/25 AA guns after her Sept 1940 overhaul?
            sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
            If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
              Just a minor detail, but didn't Arizona have 5"/25 AA guns after her Sept 1940 overhaul?
              Yep, Correct. Grabbed the first reference off the shelf which was before her refit in Puget Sound.

              Secondary:
              TWELVE 5"/51 CALIBER, SINGLE-MOUNTED GUNS; TEN WITHIN THE SUPERSTRUCTURE DECKHOUSE AND TWO ATOP IT, ONE ON EITHER SIDE OF THE CONNING TOWER. (THE LATTER TWO WERE REMOVED SHORTLY BEFORE PEARL HARBOR IN ANTICIPATION OF RECEIVING 1.1" AA MOUNTS. AT THE TIME OF THE ATTACK, THESE POSITIONS WERE EMPTY.)

              AA
              EIGHT 5"/25 CALIBER SINGLE-MOUNTED GUNS, LOCATED ATOP THE SUPERSTRUCTURE DECKHOUSE, FOUR TO A SIDE.

              Secondary AA
              .50 cal MG. EIGHT TOTAL; TWO ON EACH MAST, FOUR ON THE FUNNEL PLATFORM.
              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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              • #8
                One of the primary characters in my recently released novel (BB-39), is a GM3 on the Arizona. BB-39 is a story about a group of five young men, part of the Greatest Generation, who join the US Navy in 1938. It chronicles their lives in the prewar battleship navy and beyond. Events out of their control fracture their friendship, their loves, and their lives. Forged into men by a conflect greater then themselves, the survivors of December 7th and those they love, move in divergent paths.

                In 1990, an accident near the Wailing Wall in Israel starts another chain of events that brings redemption, twilight lovers reunited and a Siberian POW rescue.

                BB-39, by A.G. Kimbrough is now available as an Ebook at Amazon.com.

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                • #9
                  BB-39 is available as a free download at Amazon/Kindle through Monday noon (7/22 PST).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    BB-39 is now available in print on Amazon.
                    Amazon.com: A.G. Kimbrough: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CaptnAndy View Post
                      CaptnAndy, while we appreciate the hard work that went into such a great subject, please don't use the World Affairs Board as an advertising venue. Thank you.
                      “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
                      ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                        *Ah but now days (and for sometime) your looking at E-7 (CPO) Status and an extension to the Gunners Mates rankings, You also now have GMM Gunners Mate Misslemen.;)

                        Gunners Mate Rating Badge (new era) The "Crow" looks to the left.;)
                        No longer the case Dreadnought. It would seem in the 11 years since I retired, the Navy has combined several ratings and streamlined others. They've also done away with others (e.g. Boiler Technicians) altogether. In any event, there are no longer GMGs and GMMs. There are only GMs; and in addition of the rating being one, big, happy family, they've also combined the Torpedo Man rating with them. So now the TMs are GMs. Now, just to make sure that people actually know what they are doing, there are numerous Navy Enlisted Classification codes (NEC) that designate who is qualified to maintain and operate what. So a guy who works on MK 48 torpedoes will have very different NECs from one who works on a 5"/54 or a MK 41 VLS system. Interestingly, Machinist Mates can get the same NEC for working on torpedoes as Gunner's Mates. In fact, a Machinist's Mate's skills might be in high demand in working those ICEs with their self oxidizing fuels. In any event; everyone is now a GM, period.

                        BTW, I was the senior naval officer in the State Of Arizona, and back in 2002 or thereabouts, the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association invited me to speak at the dedication of the Pearl Harbor memorial at the Glendale Public Library. I was happy to provide. In addition to me, the TAG of the Arizona National Guard spoke, as did the Senior Air Force Officer CO of Luke ASB. Well anyway, a week later the leader of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association showed up at my office, and presented me with their thankyou . . . a piece of USS Arizona, cut from the potato locker that was blown off and landed on Ford Island. They've been given permission by the Park Service to cut pieces off for presentation purposes. What I was given is about three by five inches and embedded in a block of wood that is then enclosed in a Plexiglas box. It's pretty cool actually, and I am humbled by the privilege.
                        Last edited by desertswo; 20 Jun 13,, 08:09.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                          No longer the case Dreadnought. It would seem in the 11 years since I retired, the Navy has combined several ratings and streamlined others. They've also done away with others (e.g. Boiler Technicians) altogether. In any event, there are no longer GMGs and GMMs. There are only GMs; and in addition of the rating being one, big, happy family, they've also combined the Torpedo Man rating with them. So now the TMs are GMs. Now, just to make sure that people actually know what they are doing, there are numerous Navy Enlisted Classification codes (NEC) that designate who is qualified to maintain and operate what. So a guy who works on MK 48 torpedoes will have very different NECs from one who works on a 5"/54 or a MK 41 VLS system. Interestingly, Machinist Mates can get the same NEC for working on torpedoes as Gunner's Mates. In fact, a Machinist's Mate's skills might be in high demand in working those ICEs with their self oxidizing fuels. In any event; everyone is now a GM, period.

                          BTW, I was the senior naval officer in the State Of Arizona, and back in 2002 or thereabouts, the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association invited me to speak at the dedication of the Pearl Harbor memorial at the Glendale Public Library. I was happy to provide. In addition to me, the TAG of the Arizona National Guard spoke, as did the Senior Air Force Officer CO of Luke ASB. Well anyway, a week later the leader of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association showed up at my office, and presented me with their thankyou . . . a piece of USS Arizona, cut from the potato locker that was blown off and landed on Ford Island. They've been given permission by the Park Service to cut pieces off for presentation purposes. What I was given is about three by five inches and embedded in a block of wood that is then enclosed in a Plexiglas box. It's pretty cool actually, and I am bumbled by the privilege.
                          Thank You sir, times change very quickly it seems and congrats at being spokesperson at the memorial. We have been privledged in the past to have some of the Arizona's remains aboard for a stay behind glass for public viewing. I can also recall reading an article some time ago when her later remains were found somewhere close to Ford Island, The removed her superstructure had been put agaround and later found and identified as that of her post Pearl Harbor Attack remains. They were a beautiful class of ship and with 12 guns quite formadable.

                          Attached a view pictures for your viewing :
                          Attached Files
                          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                            Thank You sir, times change very quickly it seems and congrats at being spokesperson at the memorial. We have been privledged in the past to have some of the Arizona's remains aboard for a stay behind glass for public viewing. I can also recall reading an article some time ago when her later remains were found somewhere close to Ford Island, The removed her superstructure had been put agaround and later found and identified as that of her post Pearl Harbor Attack remains. They were a beautiful class of ship and with 12 guns quite formadable.

                            Attached a view pictures for your viewing :
                            I have essentially the same certificate, and in fact, the piece I have looks remarkably like those behind glass, albeit, "shaved" a little cleaner on the sides. It's a perfect rectangle, about 5/8 inch thick, and you can tell it was ground off of some much larger piece. When I get my stuff together, I'll have a picture taken of me with it (something I've never done for some reason) and post it.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                              I have essentially the same certificate, and in fact, the piece I have looks remarkably like those behind glass, albeit, "shaved" a little cleaner on the sides. It's a perfect rectangle, about 5/8 inch thick, and you can tell it was ground off of some much larger piece. When I get my stuff together, I'll have a picture taken of me with it (something I've never done for some reason) and post it.
                              I wouldn't mind seeing a picture of the artifact. I don't think it's necessary to include some old guy holding it.

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