Bring Back The Iowa Class Discussion And Debate

[Albany Rifles]

I do pray that the tracked SPARTY stays in service.

All tracks were targeted for termination under GEN Shinseki.

His preference for wheels over tracks was well published.

1. They will

2. No they weren't. Rumsfeld thought that but GEN Shinseki DID NOT plan on terminating tracked armored vehicles. If he did NONE of the FCS systems would have had tracks.

3. Where is it published? Give sources. The IBCT (now SBCT) was an interim solution for a medium force until the FCS could come online. He was looking for an organization more rapidly deployable than an armored brigade which would have some good combat power and protection when it got there.

How do I know this? I worked on the LOG Task Force at the Combined Arms Support Command at FT Lee, VA during the devlopment phases. I read on a regular basis the guidance coming from the Army staff.

We can move this discussion to the Land Forces Threads if you wish.

As for battleships? They belong in museums

[Albany Rifles]

As to naval gunfire, I remember NOTHING about NGF except it would really help if you've gone to the ANGLICO course at Coronado, Ca. They are the in-house resident experts.

I'll admit its dated but even us Infantry Captains did NGFS fire planning at IOAC in the mid 1980s....taught by a USMC major and Gunny!

[Albany Rifles]

Gunny

FYI, ALL Field Artillery weapons are NLOS

Unless fired from a M1857 12 pound gun howitzer! Now THAT was definitely line of sight!

[Dreadnought]

Naval gang bang school is in Coronado. All 0861s attend. Don't confuse Smart, Strong good looking Marines with those crazy mothers that jump out of perfectly good airplanes.
:)):))

[Stitch]

Naval gang bang school is in Coronado. All 0861s attend. Don't confuse Smart, Strong good looking Marines with those crazy mothers that jump out of perfectly good airplanes.
:)):))

Isn't Coronado where SEAL teams 1,3,5, & 7 are based? Sounds familiar . . . .

[Gun Grape]

Isn't Coronado where SEAL teams 1,3,5, & 7 are based? Sounds familiar . . . .

Coronado is where the Seal course is located. Among other schools.

The actual location is at Seal beach, a few miles down the road, but its part of the Coronado base complex.

[Ryan Bailey]

GEN Shinseki & The Motorised (i.e. all Wheeled) Army

[B]All tracks were targeted for termination under GEN Shinseki.

2. No they weren't. Rumsfeld thought that but GEN Shinseki DID NOT plan on terminating tracked armored vehicles. If he did NONE of the FCS systems would have had tracks.

Thanks for the opinion but I'm afraid the wheeled army wasn't a figment of Secy. Rumsfeld's imagination, if that's what you mean to imply:

"Additionally, heavy tracked vehicles like armored personnel carriers and tanks could be phased out by lighter, faster, more fuel-efficient wheeled vehicles during the next century, said Shinseki."
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/...013shinvis.htm

"Mr. Secretary, the Chief of Staff of the United States Army, General Eric Shinseki, has proposed that the Army be transformed into a more strategically mobile, ‘medium weight’ and preferrably all-wheeled force."
-David T. Pyne, Esq. December 7, 2000

I pray that good leadership, prudence & American Patriotism wil save our generation from being the one that killed both the Battleship & the Tank.

[roffelskates]

I'm late into this conversation but I want to add that can't missiles be defeated by electronic warfare? We can't be totally dependent on tech when our enemies have access to disable it. A 38 inch shell can't be stopped by any amount of computing power, and the only defense is a VERY heavily reinforced bunker. There may be a time where Tomahawks can be stopped and Air superiority doesn't exist. The only way for fire support to get there would be through land forces (dangerous), or Naval fire support, which is an easy, reliable method of fire support.

[HoratioNelson]

Mr. Roffelskates is correct, though I think he meant a 16 inch shell, not a 38 inch, which would be absolutely huge and nobody ever used in history. Heck, even an 8 inch or 10 inch gun would represent more firepower per shell than any naval gun around these days, which are mostly in the 3-6 inch range if I'm not mistaken.

[gf0012-aust]

Mr. Roffelskates is correct, though I think he meant a 16 inch shell, not a 38 inch

Maybe the confusion was re "inches" and "calibre"....

[roffelskates]

Maybe the confusion was re "inches" and "calibre"....

Yeah, that's always so weird with me. Because i always think of caliber in terms of small arms where it's measured in inches.

[gf0012-aust]

Yeah, that's always so weird with me. Because i always think of caliber in terms of small arms where it's measured in inches.

a 38 cal naval gun would be a bit light on though :) - IIRC that would be a 5 incher

[roffelskates]

I think it's also helpful to know that a Tomahawk cruise missle costs about 600 THOUSAND DOLLARS? How much does a lead shell cost?

[gf0012-aust]

I think it's also helpful to know that a Tomahawk cruise missle costs about 600 THOUSAND DOLLARS? How much does a lead shell cost?

thats not an accurate representation though... it's an issue of mission set relevance.

[roffelskates]

thats not an accurate representation though... it's an issue of mission set relevance.

Cost effectiveness has to land here somewhere too. Maybe I'm not advocating the re-establishment of sea cruising dreadnoughts, but I'm advocating traditional fire support in favor of the smaller, more expensive, and less firepower of our frigate and cruiser ships that their main fire support weapon is the Tomahawk.