recomissioning Iowa class BB's

[SW4U]

First and foremost, Sour Grapes only knowledge comes from 2nd hand or hearsay talk about the accuracy of the 16"/50 cal gunfire that we provided in Vietnam and later in her 4th commission, off Lebanon.

The shooting performances of USS New Jersey in Lebanon has actually been very accurately described in this thread, which you might want to take a look at.

Sources include 1st hand accounts, official reports, etc...

[SW4U]

Wow, I didn't think you could pack so much bullshit in such a short article.

William Stearman, USNFSA.

nuff said... ;)

[SW4U]

I think that qualifies me to give a professional opinion on what accurate fire support is.

Your posts unquestionably attest to that (though I may have come across some rare inaccuracies here and there... ;))

[SW4U]

Perhaps you could post a link to that statistical report about New Jersey's shooting in Vietnam so we can read it for ourselves. You're obviously biased against the Iowa class BB's based on the many different threads in these forums. I've noticed that you tend to cherry pick facts that back up your opinions and dismiss those that don't. I'd like to read it for myself.

These reports have been posted elsewhere. Is it allowed to post links to another discussion board ?

[SW4U]

Google the report By Col Don Price.

Has the report by the good ol' Don Price been made publicly available ? I haven't kept track of this for a while, but last time I checked, it was still classified, with several FOIA requests being denied.

[SW4U]

1000 lb warhead hitting the armor of an Iowa class is going to leave a big scorch mark, and busted ear drums.. THAT'S IT!! your NOT going to sink it, your NOT going to do a mission kill.. look at the USS South Dakota, took 26 hits (5, 6, 8 and 14" shells) Japanese 14" shells were about 1400 lbs and wasn't sunk and once she got power back up was able to join up with the USS Washington after the battle.

According to the US Navy study entitled "Vulnerability of US Naval Vessels to Attack by Air-Borne Weapons" and issued 11 May 1944, it wouldn't take more than six (6) 2,000lb GP bombs (each with an explosive payload equivalent to 1,000lb of TNT) to disable an Iowa-class battleship with a probability of 90%.

[SW4U]

The Beehive rounds are marked with a band of yellow diamonds around the nose of the projectile. The "fire crackers" (bouncing bettys) are marked with two staggerd rows of checkerboard rectangles.

1) The Mark-144 ICM (designated Mark-19 Mod.0 in TM 43-0001-28) contained 400 x M43 grenades ("Bouncing Betty") and is olive drab with yellow diamonds and yellow markings.

Four (4) of these were fired on 23 February 1969 between 23:00:49 and 23:01:03 at a range of 21,800 yards against troop concentrations near the DMZ, with air-spotting provided by an O-1. Enemy losses unknown.



2) The Mark-146 ICM (not sure it was actually type-classified, so it may be EX-146) contained 666 x M46 bomblets and is also olive drab with yellow diamonds and yellow markings.



3) I've never ever heard of beehive rounds being developed or even envisioned for the 16"/50 Mark-7 gun, and I cannot think of a single valid reason that would justify this kind of 16" bullet anyway. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong though.

[TopHatter]

These reports have been posted elsewhere. Is it allowed to post links to another discussion board ?

We would prefer you not to, at least for the moment.

Instead, how about popping over to the Intro thread and telling us a bit about yourself? :-)

[SW4U]

We would prefer you not to, at least for the moment.

Instead, how about popping over to the Intro thread and telling us a bit about yourself? :-)

OK, no problem.

[SW4U]

Has there been any major improvements in hull designs for larger ships like the Iowa class?

Yes, plenty of improvements, not just in hull designs for that matter.

Take the Maersk B-class container ships for instance :

LOA = 293.86 m
LBP = 278.20 m
Breadth (louded) = 32.12 m
Draft (design) = 12.20 m
Service speed = 29.20 knots @ 85% MCR (i.e. 58,344 kW)

An Iowa-class BB needs 103,048 kW to achieve 29.20 knots (data from August 1985 trials).

[SW4U]

Yes, plenty of improvements, not just in hull designs for that matter.

Take the Maersk B-class container ships for instance :

LOA = 293.86 m
LBP = 278.20 m
Breadth (louded) = 32.12 m
Draft (design) = 12.20 m
Service speed = 29.20 knots @ 85% MCR (i.e. 58,344 kW)

An Iowa-class BB needs 103,048 kW to achieve 29.20 knots (data from August 1985 trials).

Dunno how to edit, so post above should read :

Breadth (moulded) = 32.12 m

Sorry for the typo... :(

[SW4U]

Today instead of "Brute Force" (although that can still be used) we finesse armor open. A DPICM grenade can penetrate over 2.75in of homogeneous steel armor. Look at the size of it

Imagine these hitting the 5"/38 mounts, the Mark-143 ABL, etc...

Steel rain would most likely soft-kill an Iowa, if not worse.

"Brute Force" with a touch of finesse is kind of neat... ;)

[SW4U]

Ok this is NOT for a possible reactivation just me thinking in my head (always thinking of the old girls, hell i have posters of 5 out of the 6 Iowas hanging up in my room) but could you realistically make turrets that could bring the 16" guns to higher elevation? Forget the mounts the were actually made I'm talking purpose built, automated (hopefully reducing size/weight of the machinery unlike the 50% heavier Des Moines mounts) mounts? Again just curious if it's feasible to have enough room for the recoil of the guns.

Historically, this was achieved by raising the guns' trunnions (thereby increasing the size of the gunports) or deepening the wells beneath the turrets to make sufficient room for the guns to recoil when fired at max. elevation).

The second method required sufficient hull depth, and was more laborious and costlier than the first one.

[SW4U]

All the below are steam ships, requiring MM (the BT's were absorbed into the MM rate in 1997)

USS Wasp LHD-1
USS Essex LHD-2
USS Kearsarge LHD-3
USS Boxer LHD-4
USS Bataan LHD-5
USS BonHomme Richard LHD-6
USS Iwo Jima LHD-7
USS Emory S Land AS-39
USS Frank Cable AS-40
USS Blue Ridge LCC-19
USS Mount Whitney LCC-20
USS Ponce AFSB-15

The steam plants of USS Emory S Land (AS-39), USS Frank Cable (AS-40), USS Mount Whitney (LCC-20) and USS Ponce (AFSB(I)-15) are operated by CIVMARs, i.e. civil service employees.

[SW4U]

The steam plants of USS Emory S Land (AS-39), USS Frank Cable (AS-40), USS Mount Whitney (LCC-20) and USS Ponce (AFSB(I)-15) are operated by CIVMARs, i.e. civil service employees.

More on MSC's hybrid crewing here.