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  • Gun Grape
    replied
    Originally posted by JRT View Post
    The investigation into the cause of the starboard propellor shaft fault found that there was an installation error. More specifically, Wallace added that based on “initial reports” the shaft was misaligned by as much as 0.8mm to 1mm. “A tiny amount that, of course, can make a huge difference at sea,” he explained.
    ...
    I would guess that with those tight tolerances she would never survive a shock test


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  • JRT
    replied
    The HMS Prince of Wales (R09), which is the subject of the following news article, is the second ship in the HMS Queen Elizabeth (RO8) class, which is the subject of this thread. I didn't want to start a new thread for this post.

    Originally posted by Defense_News

    Millimeters cost millions: UK still to decide who ‘should cough up’ for $31M aircraft carrier repair bill
    Construction and delivery of the warship was carried out by the now defunct Aircraft Carrier Alliance comprising of BAE Systems, Babcock and Thales, complicating the liability assessment but also potentially leaving the MoD to shoulder costs of the repair bill.

    By TIM MARTIN
    on May 17, 2023 at 10:12 AM

    Click image for larger version  Name:	HMS-Prince-of-Wales-e1684328898634-1070x601.jpg Views:	0 Size:	78.8 KB ID:	1599573
    HMS Prince of Wales
    The UK Royal Navy HMS Prince of Wales aircraft carrier has spent 411 days being repaired or docked since entering service in December 2019. (Royal Navy on Twitter)

    BELFAST — It was a mechanical error measured in millimeters that caused the UK’s newest and largest aircraft carrier to cease operations and now requires an estimated $31 million fix. As for who’s paying, the Ministry of Defence said it doesn’t know yet.

    Responding to a parliamentary question this week, Ben Wallace, UK secretary of defense, said that his department continues “examining the liabilities and who should cough up” for a 33-tonne (36.4-ton) starboard propeller shaft fault which forced the Prince of Wales, the second Royal Navy Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier, to break down in August 2022, just one day after departing its home base of Portsmouth, England, for training exercises in the US.

    The investigation into the cause of the starboard propellor shaft fault found that there was an installation error. More specifically, Wallace added that based on “initial reports” the shaft was misaligned by as much as 0.8mm to 1mm. “A tiny amount that, of course, can make a huge difference at sea,” he explained.

    Construction and delivery of the warship was carried out by the now defunct Aircraft Carrier Alliance comprising of BAE Systems, Babcock and Thales, complicating the liability assessment but also potentially leaving the MoD to shoulder costs of the repair bill.

    A spokesperson for BAE told Breaking Defense all former members of the construction alliance would defer questions on the matter to the MOD. The MoD declined to comment on why the repair bill liability decision has not been made yet, nor when a decision is likely to be made.

    “The estimated cost of repairs is expected to be approximately 25 million ($31 million), and we have directed an urgent review of the recommendations from [a non-statutory] investigation with former members of the Aircraft Carrier Alliance, and current industrial partners, to ensure that these failures are not repeated,” said a Royal Navy spokesperson in a statement to Breaking Defense. “We remain committed to ensuring HMS Prince of Wales commences her operational programme as planned, in Autumn 2023, including operational flying training and trials.”

    Shaft alignments are generally considered to be highly specialized tasks involving heavy metal structures and tolerance analysis, but the misalignment error serves as another serious blow to the Royal Navy and wider strategic maritime ambitions to pivot toward an “Indo Pacific tilt” laid out in the UK’s 2021 Integrated Review of defense policy.

    The severity of Prince of Wales problems, past and present, were also highlighted in parliament by John Healey, shadow defense secretary. He said that since the ship entered service in December 2019, it had spent 411 days in dock for repairs, compared to 267 days at sea. Those figures amount to the carrier being side lined for just less than a third of its service life. A previous US deployment was also scrapped after the 65,000-ton vessel was forced to undergo a six month repair, at cost of 3.3 million ($4.07 million) because of an internal engine room flood.

    The ship, which can host 36 F-35B fifth generation fighter jets, remains in dry dock at Rosyth dockyard, Scotland.
    A cursory Google websearch indicates that an ISO compliant credit card thickness is 0.76 mm (.030 inch).

    It would have been interesting to read Rusty's interpretation as to why the design does not facilitate seemingly needed fine adjustments.

    ...
    Last edited by JRT; 17 May 23,, 22:26.

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  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Nah, You could do the same thing using words from your profession.

    I'm just using Arty speak. There are probably 3-4 of us on the board that conversed like that back in the day.

    S-2 ,Arty Eng and me All from the King of Battle (Artillery). And AR who did a tour with the Transvestites of Battle (Mortars). Called that because they come from the Infantry (Queen of battle) and try to act like the King.


    Yes I'm picking on AR.

    No pogue like an old pogue.

    And Transvestites of Battle....that all ya got?

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Nah, as I couldn't match your cameo in that video...

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  • Gun Grape
    replied
    Nah, You could do the same thing using words from your profession.

    I'm just using Arty speak. There are probably 3-4 of us on the board that conversed like that back in the day.

    S-2 ,Arty Eng and me All from the King of Battle (Artillery). And AR who did a tour with the Transvestites of Battle (Mortars). Called that because they come from the Infantry (Queen of battle) and try to act like the King.


    Yes I'm picking on AR.
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 07 Feb 18,, 03:40.

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    All I can say is...

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  • Gun Grape
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    I'm sorry Gunny (no I'm not) but reading the above I am reminded of this scene from one of my favorites
    That reminds me of the time I was skating in the BOC. The AP had already pushed forward. The BC decided to call a School Circle so He could give a POI on SIMO with us as the Master Station and the AP as the Flank . They had no survey because the PC forgot to Z-VEL their PADS enroute to the new Pos.

    After getting Comms, They tried to get the Hasty done but the Check angle blew out above 2Mil. I think the PC didn't go Hands off after TIP. Then it got too dark and the PC wasn't up on his Astro So the BC instead had the Chief of Smoke do a hip pocket on doing a Hasty using a circle with the P-2 reticle utilizing the Polaris Kochab Method. Then we CSMOed. On the way, we practiced 2 HIP Shoots. One using a M-2 and SAM. The Next we AP-BAFed off a DAP. Long night. By the time we fire capped the Shirt was popping the lids of the VatCans for some morning Hot-Wets.

    I'm sure you remember those days. You know before you Pogued out :)

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    I'm sorry Gunny (no I'm not) but reading the above I am reminded of this scene from one of my favorites

    ]
    LOL, I agree after reading that yesterday. On the weekend I was reading one of my journals and an author threw out a new one at me that wasn't on my list which might have GG beat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._abbreviations

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  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Yes they dropped the well deck. At the time the amphib fleet was suppose to get bigger. That ain't happening so the follow on ships have their well deck restored.

    But.... The big deck rarely carried a infantry unit assigned for the boats. They still carry the helo company. What lost a place was the Arty battery, CAAP/LAR (dating myself) and the mobile/forward BLT command post. The CAAP/BLT forward preboated in the LCAC

    The rest was BLT HQ/Service support rolling stock. All of the follow on stuff. That loss requires adding another San Antonio class to the ESG.

    back in the days when we used the Iwo class helo ships the ARG had 5 ships. When the Tarawas came on board we lost the 2 LSTs but gained space on the LHD/LHA.

    (rant) what happened is we had a airdale as CMC and he wanted his own A/C carriers to command. Yes a Marine can be the ESG Commander. Forgot that the purpose of the wing is to support the landing force. Damn Pogue


    Edit- Acronyms that some may not know
    CAAP Combined Anti-Armor Platoon. Humvees with TOWs and the tow version of the LAV.
    LAR- Light Armor Recon. LAVs with infantry scouts
    BLT- Battalion Landing Team An Infantry Battalion, reinforced with all the fixing. Arty/Tanks/LAVs/Recon and others.
    I'm sorry Gunny (no I'm not) but reading the above I am reminded of this scene from one of my favorites


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  • surfgun
    replied
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SwgU42XSpw
    Nice cinematography.

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  • JA Boomer
    replied
    Completely unrelated. I re-watched The Final Countdown on the weekend. Great movie. They did a wonderful job of utilizing almost every aircraft in the 1980 air wing! It's too bad current air wings are so vanilla.

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  • JCT
    replied
    Originally posted by gun grape View Post
    (rant) what happened is we had a airdale as cmc and he wanted his own a/c carriers to command. Yes a marine can be the esg commander. Forgot that the purpose of the wing is to support the landing force. Damn pogue
    lol!

    Leave a comment:


  • Toby
    replied
    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Yes they dropped the well deck. At the time the amphib fleet was suppose to get bigger. That ain't happening so the follow on ships have their well deck restored.

    But.... The big deck rarely carried a infantry unit assigned for the boats. They still carry the helo company. What lost a place was the Arty battery, CAAP/LAR (dating myself) and the mobile/forward BLT command post. The CAAP/BLT forward preboated in the LCAC

    The rest was BLT HQ/Service support rolling stock. All of the follow on stuff. That loss requires adding another San Antonio class to the ESG.

    back in the days when we used the Iwo class helo ships the ARG had 5 ships. When the Tarawas came on board we lost the 2 LSTs but gained space on the LHD/LHA.

    (rant) what happened is we had a airdale as CMC and he wanted his own A/C carriers to command. Yes a Marine can be the ESG Commander. Forgot that the purpose of the wing is to support the landing force. Damn Pogue


    Edit- Acronyms that some may not know
    CAAP Combined Anti-Armor Platoon. Humvees with TOWs and the tow version of the LAV.
    LAR- Light Armor Recon. LAVs with infantry scouts
    BLT- Battalion Landing Team An Infantry Battalion, reinforced with all the fixing. Arty/Tanks/LAVs/Recon and others.
    Thats great info thanks... Glad you explained the abbreviations.... BLT is a sandwich here lol
    Last edited by Toby; 05 Feb 18,, 00:30.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gun Grape
    replied
    Yes they dropped the well deck. At the time the amphib fleet was suppose to get bigger. That ain't happening so the follow on ships have their well deck restored.

    But.... The big deck rarely carried a infantry unit assigned for the boats. They still carry the helo company. What lost a place was the Arty battery, CAAP/LAR (dating myself) and the mobile/forward BLT command post. The CAAP/BLT forward preboated in the LCAC

    The rest was BLT HQ/Service support rolling stock. All of the follow on stuff. That loss requires adding another San Antonio class to the ESG.

    back in the days when we used the Iwo class helo ships the ARG had 5 ships. When the Tarawas came on board we lost the 2 LSTs but gained space on the LHD/LHA.

    (rant) what happened is we had a airdale as CMC and he wanted his own A/C carriers to command. Yes a Marine can be the ESG Commander. Forgot that the purpose of the wing is to support the landing force. Damn Pogue


    Edit- Acronyms that some may not know
    CAAP Combined Anti-Armor Platoon. Humvees with TOWs and the tow version of the LAV.
    LAR- Light Armor Recon. LAVs with infantry scouts
    BLT- Battalion Landing Team An Infantry Battalion, reinforced with all the fixing. Arty/Tanks/LAVs/Recon and others.
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 04 Feb 18,, 23:49. Reason: Acronyms

    Leave a comment:


  • Toby
    replied
    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
    The same way the QE will do it. Only faster, because the America has more deck spots for helos and an uncluttered flight deck. You don't run fixed wing and helo ops concurrent. Even on a Nimitz class carrier. Not because of deck space/layout, but because of the different wind currents generated by the planes/helos.

    The problems with the flight deck are heat related. The 35 exhaust is hotter than the AV-8s. But by doing a vertical landing I can get more planes on deck in a shorter amount of time than doing a rolling landing. Faster turn around time
    My reading on the America is that greater emphasis has been put on the flight deck at the cost of the amphibious component which is raising questions about design. Trying to read in between the lines here but it sounds like the Tech is pushing the designers (both UK and US) into a suck it and see dilemma..it sounds like a very fluid environment in terms of design.

    Leave a comment:

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