Navy Ships To Be Decommissioned.

[Gun Grape]

Right now China is at the center of 2 possible flashpoints- the Spratlys and Japan. China doesn't have our number of destroyers and no cruisers but has a lot of land based air and a large force of submarines and missile boats.

And the Japanese Maritime Self Defence Force is either the 2d or 3d most advanced Navy in the World depending on how you rank them. (No CV, or SSBNs). They are the only other Navy, that has a Fleet AMB capability that has been demonstrated.

They also have experience controlling large sea forces and are hell on wheels when it comes to ASW. They are a big player during RimPac.

As for all the land based air force. Not a real player. Look at the air bases that could be used,and the MOG rates of each. Plus the other places the chinese have to cover with their air.

What role do you see the US Navy playing? Keeping the two sides apart?

Iran is another hot spot, while Iran's surface navy in terms of conventional ships is an absolute joke, in terms of missile boats and boghammers it is a credible threat.

The last time we considered speedboats (boghammer sounds cooler though) a threat They were dealt with before they ever left port. And there are lots more air assets in the theater now

Egypt, while likely not a direct threat, the MB's control of the country poses a serious threat to our ability to shuttle forces around using the Suez. This means either longer response times, or that we have to keep more assets at sea closer to potential hot spots.

Pakistan, that nutjob country's coast line has a huge percentage of the worlds shipping passing just off shore. A Indo-Pak war or a Jihadi Pakistan are both threats to that shipping.

Drug cartels and Pirates, the Caribbean, Gulf of Mexico, west coast of South/Central America, Indian Ocean off the coast of East Africa and the Straits of Malacca are all hubs of maritime organized crime.

Levant and North Africa, no real threats there right now, but in an unstable region we need to be able to respond quickly and effectively.

And each of those areas have countries that have Navies of their own. Look at the Straits of Malacca. And how the regional countries are dealing with piracy/terrorism.

Get the US Navy out of Drug interdiction. Thats a USCG job.

[Gun Grape]

For reasons of strategy, not tactics.

If you leave a power vacuum, then someone aggressive will not only fill it, but will also likely continue to push boundaries.

You are far more likely to have to engage in naval warfare when you provide incentive for someone else to develop a navy.

Who has a blue water navy to fill these "Power Vaccuums"?

[gunnut]

I saw on the TV news last night that Taiwan will get 4 "Aegis" ships, possibly 4 of these retired Ticos.

[Gun Grape]

I saw on the TV news last night that Taiwan will get 4 "Aegis" ships, possibly 4 of these retired Ticos.

We talked about selling them Aegis equipped Burkes back in 2001. Instead they got Kidds.

I don't see Aegis happening. Maybe a version of LCS

[SharkPilot]

Permit me a rather basic question:
Regarding Port Royal; what is so wrong with the ship? I understand that she went aground and was damaged. I just don't really understand the extent of the damage. Was the hull girder "tweaked" enough to cause machinery/shaft alignment problems? I can imagine that being difficult and expensive to repair.
Please for give my ignorance. I know a lot about ships, but mostly from books and what I read here. My only real experience is just a volunteer crew member aboard an old cargo ship.
Thanks, Jim.

[Gun Grape]

In addition to the damage caused by the grounding, Port Royal also had 14 Million dollars spent on her repairing hull cracks in 2010.

The grounding put her shafts out of alignment. They fixed that but 1 year later she suffers from cracks. Kind of like a wrecked vehicle. Better to put her down before she becomes a bigger money pit.

But now Congress has ordered the navy to keep all 4 CGs in service.

Guess we will have to find other ways to pay for those 13 Flight IIa Burkes that we just ordered.

[JRT]

Who has a blue water navy to fill these "Power Vaccuums"?

That is the point. If a power vacuum is created, it provides incentive for all to develop some ability to protect their unprotected interests, and incentive for someone aggressive to fill the dominant role if they can, or incentive to begin developing the capability to become dominant if they can find resources to do so.

For example, Somali piracy is really a minor problem taken by itself, and it is everybody's problem, and not the responsibility of the US to solve it alone. But I'd argue that the failure of the US to take immediate action and quickly quell Somali piracy in the western Indian Ocean has motivated China to send warships there to protect their interests. In doing that, China has begun learning how to operate with the long tail imposed by the distance, has begun to develop a relationship with Seychelles for longer term support there, etc. By doing that, they are learning alot that they didn't otherwise know, and they were motivated to do so now rather than later out of perceived need, a need that the US should not have allowed to fester.

Likewise, a failure to quickly quell Somali pirates lead to expansion of their activity. Aggressive pirates filled the void where there was little to stop them at home or at sea, and then pushed their boundaries further.

China's presence in the Indian Ocean may fuel the fire of a regional arms race among peers there, and they each gain capability in that process, and eventually that process erodes some US advantage.

Recall that the US' Department of the Navy was created and funded in 1798 in response to piracy on the Barbary coast of North Africa. Before that, during the American Revolutionary War, France's Navy had provided some protection for American merchant ships, and shortly after the end of that war came the ending of that protection in the presence of continued real risk to that shipping, and that created need for the US to begin funding the development of capability to protect itself. In the decade before that, US Congress had been unwilling to fund development of a Navy capable of providing protection for US interests at a significant distance, much less the develoment of one capable of projecting power to the shore of another continent.

[Gun Grape]

For example, Somali piracy is really a minor problem taken by itself, and it is everybody's problem, and not the responsibility of the US to solve it alone. But I'd argue that the failure of the US to take immediate action and quickly quell Somali piracy in the western Indian Ocean has motivated China to send warships there to protect their interests. In doing that, China has begun learning how to operate with the long tail imposed by the distance, has begun to develop a relationship with Seychelles for longer term support there, etc. By doing that, they are learning alot that they didn't otherwise know, and they were motivated to do so now rather than later out of perceived need, a need that the US should not have allowed to fester.

I don't see the bad things that you do from China operating in International Anti piracy operations. And I'll reference the article you posted in the Somali piracy thread.

China gets most of their strategic imports from Africa. They also have the largest contingent of troops in Africa supporting UN missions. So it makes sense that they should be involved in regional security.


They are not our enemy. No matter what various think tanks that push for more DoD money will tell you. We are engaging them and working together with them. To let them know that we are not their enemy.

If this had been the old soviet navy, we would be bumping each others ships and being a general PITA to each other. With the PLAN, we are conducting joint boarding exercises. And inviting them to RimPac (in a few years).

As for learning a lot that they didn't know about Blue water ops. This is not the first time that they have deployed ships far away. They have made port visits to the UK, Spain, the US and Canada.

Likewise, a failure to quickly quell Somali pirates lead to expansion of their activity. Aggressive pirates filled the void where there was little to stop them at home or at sea, and then pushed their boundaries further.

What caused their expansion was abject poverty. They only thing that will quell them is to wipe out villages. I've been to that country. There is a level of desperation that is hard for people in the west to imagine. You want to stop the piracy? You either have to go in and "Fix" the country or you kill the people living in the coastal villages. No one seems to think the country is worth fixing. And no one will give the order to wipe the villages out.

China's presence in the Indian Ocean may fuel the fire of a regional arms race among peers there, and they each gain capability in that process, and eventually that process erodes some US advantage.

We have a 19 Navy equivalent. We have demonstrate that we can self sustain a deployment for over a year.
The 4 Ticos that the US Navy wanted to decommission have more throw weight in VLS cells than the entire Royal Navy.
We have just ordered another 13 Flight 2a Burkes

What advantage will be eroded by China sending a destroyer and 2 frigates to the Indian Ocean?

[USSWisconsin]

Sounds like the USN surface fleet of the future will consist of - Ford CVN's, Burke's, and LCS's with a couple DDG's.

[blidgepump]

This month's Popular Science cover has a unique looking DD.....

Sounds like the USN surface fleet of the future will consist of - Ford CVN's, Burke's, and LCS's with a couple DDG's.

If you get by your local newstand check out this month's PS cover for the future design of a DD.
The USN has come a long way from the 1949 arguments for a super carrier force without a doubt....

[gunnut]

Cool!!! I want to launch 4-engine bombers from a carrier...

[gunnut]

We talked about selling them Aegis equipped Burkes back in 2001. Instead they got Kidds.

I don't see Aegis happening. Maybe a version of LCS

Is there any version of the LCS that might carry the Aegis system?

I saw the news on...the news. TV can't possibly lie to me.

[ChrisV71]

Is there any version of the LCS that might carry the Aegis system?

The version Lockheed Martin is hocking on the international market can have Aegis, but the USN isn't looking at it.

Lockheed Martin · Surface Combat Ship

[gunnut]

The version Lockheed Martin is hocking on the international market can have Aegis, but the USN isn't looking at it.

Lockheed Martin · Surface Combat Ship

Neat! Looks like she will have 32 VLS cells, plenty for a 3300t ship.

Anyone else interested?

[ChrisV71]

Here's an interesting read (with pictures) on what the Ticonderoga, Yorktown and Gates have been doing the last year.

https://www.navalengineers.org/Proce...Karpovitch.pdf

I'm curious about the stripping done to Ticonderoga and her viability as a museum. Having no props or rudders now would make towing her a hastle, if nothing else.