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RAN's Collins class replacement

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  • Officer of Engineers
    replied
    Oh Please!

    We bought used Australian F-18s. Do you really think that we need to sign on for the rest of this bullshit! ABCA is good enough!

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  • Monash
    replied
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Look to Canada leasing a few of your SSNs.
    They'd have to sign on to Aukus first of course albeit that would just be a formality given the 5 Eyes and everything. What looks like being a real problem though is getting enough boats into the water to actually share around. The US is stretched just finding the first few subs or Australia and the British boats aren't in production and wont be for what? A decade or more? And even then I doubt the UK will be able to match US production rates. It might end up being a case of first come first served.

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  • Officer of Engineers
    replied
    Look to Canada leasing a few of your SSNs.

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  • Monash
    replied
    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    Guess this is still going... UK MoD awards UK contracts for next phase of SSN-AUKUS programme

    Now it's "UK's and Australia's next-generation" SSN? What timeline are they working on? Late 2030s?
    From the news reports I've seen the 'plan' seems to be to initially purchase a couple of Virginia class hulls in order to gain hours in crewing SSNs and then transition to purpose built UK/Aus subs. This 'sort' of make sense given some Congressmen in the US are already complaining about how the (previously unplanned) provision of Virginia class hulls to Australia will impede US acquisitions. Meanwhile our Collins Class subs are nearing the end of their 'use by' dates. I would expect 1-3 Virginia's to be available within the next 10 years (but that's just my (lay person's) opinion based on what I've read in news reports. After that I would expect joint UK/Aus subs to become available.

    The thing is US production rates are stretched thin as they are and Australia needs 10-12 hulls. Meanwhile from memory the last Astute Class SSN is about to run down the slipway, assuming it hasn't already. That being true the UK has construction capacity just begging for new orders. But even with the best of will in the world? Your probably looking at the late 2030' or early 40's before the last sub becomes operational.

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  • jlvfr
    replied
    Guess this is still going... UK MoD awards UK contracts for next phase of SSN-AUKUS programme

    Now it's "UK's and Australia's next-generation" SSN? What timeline are they working on? Late 2030s?

    Leave a comment:


  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Originally posted by Monash View Post
    Australia is also apparently looking into acquiring the US's next gen long range cruise missile system in it's mobile land based configuration which is apparently being developed for the US Army. From memory according to the specs I've read about the expectation is that a vehicle mounted system based around Darwin would be able to hit naval targets in the Makassar Strait!

    Me thinks Indonesia might have 'some' concerns about that but not so much I suspect as another unnamed regional power.
    It's like bringing back the Pershing 2 range wise to be used for surface attack! That'll really do a great job on marine denial!

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  • Monash
    replied
    Australia is also apparently looking into acquiring the US's next gen long range cruise missile system in it's mobile land based configuration which is apparently being developed for the US Army. From memory according to the specs I've read about the expectation is that a vehicle mounted system based around Darwin would be able to hit naval targets in the Makassar Strait!

    Me thinks Indonesia might have 'some' concerns about that but not so much I suspect as another unnamed regional power.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chunder
    replied
    Hell of a platform when one thinks of it. Obviously no comparison to a b21 for sortie generation, but to shut down shipping and do land attack is next level.

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  • Monash
    replied
    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    Wonder if the US will sell the Virginia "as is". It would be the fastest and cheapest solution, but I'm willing to bet there's some top secret gear inside the USN wouldn't be too happy to send out of the US, even to such an ally. Replacing that would take time & money.
    Apparently the 'plan' is to acquire five or so Virginia class SSNs as a stop gap pending finalization of the design of a more advanced Anglo-Australian sub that would include more (US) designed VLS systems than are currently included in the base Virginia class. As proposed this new class would not be at SSGN levels of capability in terms of the number of VLS tubes in the hull but would be superior to the current Virginia's production runs in terms of the of number of tubes included. So sort of an SSGN 'light' for want of a better term.

    All of which at this stage is subject to change without notice of course!
    Last edited by Monash; 15 Mar 23,, 12:56.

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  • jlvfr
    replied
    Wonder if the US will sell the Virginia "as is". It would be the fastest and cheapest solution, but I'm willing to bet there's some top secret gear inside the USN wouldn't be too happy to send out of the US, even to such an ally. Replacing that would take time & money.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chunder
    replied
    Originally posted by Dazed View Post

    Virginia's are plentiful, quicker to produce than the Astute. Imagine two different submarine classes would be counterproductive and economically inefficient.
    There's speculation that they may well not be new builds? There's also speculation the option for 5 is for when Collins reaches the end of its service life and there isn't a replacement.

    This kind-of makes sense - capability is stood up to replace the old, hence two separate types of nuke subs with the Virginia being a stop gap.

    I think most of the purported cost is going to occur within SSN(x).

    My 2c

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  • Dazed
    replied
    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    Australia buying Virgina-class subs?

    So, that's 5 SSN now (for a certain definition of "now") and a new class in... 20 years...

    What's the cost of a single Virginia? 3 bilion, give or take?
    I posted this in the International Political Forum AUKUS thread.

    The quickest an Astute has ever been laid down and commissioned was nine years. It is now around 11 years. A Virgina is about of a year and there are 22 of them out there. I think in terms of manning and facilities the Astute is the RAN best bet, but they are rare and production is measured in units of 1 and a decade long.

    Virginia's are plentiful, quicker to produce than the Astute. Imagine two different submarine classes would be counterproductive and economically inefficient.

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  • Bigfella
    replied
    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
    Australia buying Virgina-class subs?

    So, that's 5 SSN now (for a certain definition of "now") and a new class in... 20 years...

    What's the cost of a single Virginia? 3 bilion, give or take?
    Well, its 3 for sure and maybe 2 more. The problem is that while we are getting used to those we will be building our new UK designed subs, which we will ultimately operate alongside the Virginias. How many nations have simultaneously operated nuclear subs from two different nations? Can't be many & none of them as small as us.

    I understand the 'why' - we need new subs ASAP. I am also assuming the Yanks won't let us build Virginia and/or won't give us access to some technologies. Doesn't make this any less messy. Makes me wish we had got this properly sorted a decade ago.

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  • jlvfr
    replied
    Australia buying Virgina-class subs?

    So, that's 5 SSN now (for a certain definition of "now") and a new class in... 20 years...

    What's the cost of a single Virginia? 3 bilion, give or take?

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    I would certainly like an explanation for that if I were Aussie. Obviously a kiss ass deal to keep the French government happy behind closed doors. Lockheed Martin, another contractor, didn't get a "deal" for breaking of the contract, only the French. So much for hammering out a contract to abide by even if broken which is dealt with in said contract. Yep, kiss ass.

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