RAN's Collins class replacement

[Bigfella]

The Block 4 Virginia or even Block 5 Virginia's would give us much more bang for our bucks than the Astute class.

I am also a fan of the Virginias because the US has been building & operating large numbers for a long time. Lots of experience, lots of opportunity to work out any problems and lots of people we can access who know stuff. We will also be working more closely with the US and could set up joint facilities in Australia. The Astute is a better boat on paper & may be a better boat in reality, but I think the Virginias have advantages for us.

[Albany Rifles]

US boat seems more likely than a UK one for practical reasons. I'd be happy with that. Ultimately we will be integrating with the USN more than any other navy, so having regular access to a US boat would be ideal.

And I know there will be US SSN crews killing each other in order to homeport in Fremantle!

[Chunder]

Indeed I favour commonality with the U.S. I also favour vls. Hobart costs 2.6 billion to get 48 vls. I don't know the price difference between a B4/5 Va, I suspect the survivability of the platform is a lot better, a lot more persistent and more numerous etc than just 1 effective Hobart. I don't know what the Hunter (you know the 'frigate' that's heavier than the Hobart) will bring, but I don't trust Canberra in any iteration to bring it with any sense of urgency.

[Bigfella]

And I know there will be US SSN crews killing each other in order to homeport in Fremantle!

Not as cool as Melbourne, but beats the hell out of Hobart, Dawrin or Adelaide.

[Bigfella]

Indeed I favour commonality with the U.S. I also favour vls. Hobart costs 2.6 billion to get 48 vls. I don't know the price difference between a B4/5 Va, I suspect the survivability of the platform is a lot better, a lot more persistent and more numerous etc than just 1 effective Hobart. I don't know what the Hunter (you know the 'frigate' that's heavier than the Hobart) will bring, but I don't trust Canberra in any iteration to bring it with any sense of urgency.

On paper both programs cost a similar amount for a similar number of hulls. Of course, that is before a single rivet has been made, so who knows what the final costs will be and how many frigates or subs we will end up with. Your point on survivability is well taken, however.

[JRT]

Indeed I favour commonality with the U.S. I also favour vls. Hobart costs 2.6 billion to get 48 vls. I don't know the price difference between a B4/5 Va, I suspect the survivability of the platform is a lot better, a lot more persistent and more numerous etc than just 1 effective Hobart. I don't know what the Hunter (you know the 'frigate' that's heavier than the Hobart) will bring, but I don't trust Canberra in any iteration to bring it with any sense of urgency.

A good resource for information is the US Congressional Research Service associated with the Library of Congress, and below is the link to their report product on the subject of US SSNs, recent revision and older revisions. Older reports may contain interesting information no longer included in recent revisions where that information may no longer be very useful in providing current information for the intended purpose of informing Congressional oversight and budget decisions.

(https://crsreports.congress.gov/prod...odcode=RL32418)

The most recent revision is dated 19 October 2021 for RL32418 - Version: 214 is attached to this post
at the following link (214.pdf).

Note that the Virginia Block III and Block IV boats have two large VLS tubes forward of the sail, each of which can carry up 6 T-LAMs. Some, but not all, of the Block V boats add an 84 foot long plug called the VPM, Virginia Payload Module. A portion of the VPM adds 4 large VLS tubes, each capable of carrying up to 7 T-LAMs for total of 40 T-LAMs, 12 forward of the sail, and 28 aft. New orders on Virginia class SSN are all Block V, with or without the VPM. Below discusses a little about the variants of Block V with VPM.

From the Summary on page two:

Since FY2011, Virginia-class boats have been procured at a rate of two per year. Virginia-class boats scheduled for procurement in FY2019-FY2023 are being procured under a multiyear procurement (MYP) contract. Most Virginia-class boats procured in FY2019 and subsequent years are to be built with the Virginia Payload Module (VPM), an additional, 84-foot-long, mid-body section equipped with four large-diameter, vertical launch tubes for storing and launching additional Tomahawk missiles or other payloads. When procured at a rate of two boats per year, VPM-equipped Virginia-class SSNs have an estimated procurement cost of about $3.45 billion per boat. The Navy’s proposed budget requests the procurement of the 35th and 36th Virginia-class boats. The two boats have an estimated combined procurement cost of $6,915.8 million (i.e., about $6.9 billion). The two boats have received $1,888.3 million in prior-year “regular” advance procurement (AP) funding, and $778.2 million in Economic Order Quantity (EOQ) funding, which is an additional kind of AP funding that can occur under an MYP contract. The Navy’s proposed FY2022 budget requests the remaining $4,249.2 million needed to complete the two boats’ estimated combined procurement cost of $6,915.8 million. The Navy’s proposed FY2022 budget also requests $2,120.4 million in AP funding for Virginia-class boats to be procured in one or more future fiscal years, bringing the total amount of procurement and AP funding requested for the Virginia-class program to $6,369.6 million (i.e., about $6.4 billion).

‐----------‐--------------------

Edit: From an earlier revision dated July 31, 2018 of RL32418 - Version: 167 (167.pdf) :

Virginia-class boats procured in recent years without VPM cost about $2.7 billion each to procure, while Virginia-class boats to be procured in coming years with VPM have an estimated unit procurement cost of about $3.2 billion. After taking inflation into account, this suggests that adding VPM to the Virginia-class design increases the unit procurement cost of a Virginia-class boat by upwards of $500 million.

[JRT]

Virginia Block V with VPM, graphic image below from an article at the following link.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...hawk-missiles/


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...

[Chunder]

A worthwhile watch.

https://youtu.be/XEDy4_ozmnw

One thing I did not know about our submarine experience was our lessons wrt IP rights and the effect this has on cost & readiness.

Has changed my perspective somewhat. No small issue.

[Monash]

...

But wheres the spa and lap pool?

[thebard]

But wheres the spa and lap pool?

Not far from the espresso machine. You can just follow your nose.

[jlvfr]

It's an australian sub. Should there not be a boomerang practice range? (I'll get my coat...)

[Bigfella]

It's an australian sub. Should there not be a boomerang practice range? (I'll get my coat...)

No, but a TAB and/or a pub would be appropriate.

[Monash]

No, but a TAB and/or a pub would be appropriate.

Don't forget the practice cricket pitch & gym

[Albany Rifles]

No, but a TAB and/or a pub would be appropriate.

I remember the time around 4 years ago you explained what a TAB was to me, Pete. Why is what we call a case (24 cans) here called a TAB in OZ?

[Bigfella]

I remember the time around 4 years ago you explained what a TAB was to me, Pete. Why is what we call a case (24 cans) here called a TAB in OZ?

I think you are confusing a TAB with a slab. The latter name probably relates to the shape - 24 cans packed flat in a rectaggle shape has a 'slab' look about it. TAB stands or Totalizator Agency Board and is a betting shop in Australia & New Zealand. I'll spare you the many details, but until the internet they were the only way to bet off track legally.