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  • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    I agree the NIH syndrome hit hard...a lot of our NATO Allies have a ton of shallow water experience and hulls we should have plugged into.
    To be fair it's not like programmes of the time went any better over here.

    The German K130 corvettes are basically our version of the LCS ASuW package - built for the same purpose, designed originally with much the same equipment. Much like with LCS, the first thing laid down was just "how many", then the trade-off wars between different groups started on "what do we want it to be capable of" and "we want this and that fancy new thing on it". Oh, and all with the caveat that it had to be cheap and small and please not that big a crew. Oh, and since the industry knows how to build a ship we can pretty much let them do that without any oversight too. And it'll create jobs. Especially since all our allies will want to buy them too.
    The end result was that we had a ship class that was aborted after the first batch (one-third of planning), didn't carry any of that fancy stuff proposed at all (although these subprojects were timely aborted, unlike with LCS), had long-time problems with cheap components bought in Eastern Europe (gearboxes) or wrong installations (air conditioning), and factually took about 9 years after first deliveries until the class was declared really fully usable.

    By now we're buying a second batch.

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    • Tbf the K130 is a bit too small for the USN; it's hangar is only big enough for UAVs, while the USN needs to carry a Blackhawk. It also has a speed of (afaik) only 25-26knots, so it would never be able to operate with a CV group. So beef up the design for 30-32 knots, and a hangar for a Blackhawk, add sime VLS for a couple dozen Sparrow SAMs and... voila.

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      • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
        Tbf the K130 is a bit too small for the USN; it's hangar is only big enough for UAVs, while the USN needs to carry a Blackhawk. It also has a speed of (afaik) only 25-26knots, so it would never be able to operate with a CV group. So beef up the design for 30-32 knots, and a hangar for a Blackhawk, add sime VLS for a couple dozen Sparrow SAMs and... voila.
        Not sure you need a OHP replacement...which is kinda what you are saying.

        Something between the Visby-class, Braunschweig class and Sa'ar 5 class.

        And our recent history has shown the value that ship's company size is important for damage control....because in waters where they would operate damage is a mid-high risk.

        That said, bring on the FFG(X) ASAP.

        But I really do wish we had a 5"/54' mounted on them....but I will live with getting the 32 cell VLS!
        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
        Mark Twain

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        • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
          Not sure you need a OHP replacement...which is kinda what you are saying.
          Was thinking of a proper multi-purpose/light escort ship, which is what most european frigates (and corvetes like the K130) are.

          Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
          That said, bring on the FFG(X) ASAP.

          But I really do wish we had a 5"/54' mounted on them....but I will live with getting the 32 cell VLS!
          Indeed. And maybe then the USN can get decent numbers of usefull ships, without ripping it's wallet a new one...

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          • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
            beef up the design for 30-32 knots, and a hangar for a Blackhawk, add sime VLS for a couple dozen Sparrow SAMs and... voila.
            If you want a light multipurpose ship with limited self-defense, ASW focus to replace the OHP and the capability to slot into a carrier group - look at the French Admiral Ronarc'h class aka FTI/FDI that they're building now.

            France, with this new class, is now replacing those ships that were built intended for LCS-like deployments in the late 90s - and had similar problems, to the point where they're castrated comparably unarmed ships with lots of non-navy-standard equipment. The new ships are basically a FREMM shrunk in size and equipment to be a modern equivalent to a OHP. Primary intended operation is solo presence/cooperation missions (where you don't want to send something bigger/costlier), ocean escort for amphibious ships and other secondary large units, adhoc integration into the carrier group.

            In my opinion the hull would have been a much better fit for FFG(X) compared to the Burke-sized FREMMs. If you want a OHP replacement that can do the OHP's job.

            Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
            Something between the Visby-class, Braunschweig class and Sa'ar 5 class.
            The Sa'ar 5 were pretty looked down upon as "not ocean-capable" and "overloaded with weapon systems of limited effectiveness" at their time by other navies.

            Turkish Ada-class corvettes might have been more suitable to US requirements as a small platform, even if they're a bit short-legged.

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            • The Navy has been suffering from a bit of schizophrenia over what it needs. It has been whipsawed the new carriers, the new Columbia class SSBN, new amphibs and the cost of the F-35. The F-35 seems to be under control, same with the amphibs. LCS was seen as a way to go cheap to fill the gap with the loss of the OHPs...a gap long left unfilled or given to the Burke's....and a Burke is a big time overkill.

              Hopefully FFG(X) get's them there.
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

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              • Originally posted by kato View Post
                If you want a light multipurpose ship with limited self-defense, ASW focus to replace the OHP and the capability to slot into a carrier group - look at the French Admiral Ronarc'h class aka FTI/FDI that they're building now.
                They are so new I completely forgot about them... duh..

                Yeah, those fit the bill for a light jack-of-all-trades. And look, France is bacl to the thumblehome... :D

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                • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                  They are so new I completely forgot about them... duh..

                  Yeah, those fit the bill for a light jack-of-all-trades. And look, France is bacl to the thumblehome... :D
                  Totally agree...
                  “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                  Mark Twain

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