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  • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Yep, time out guys we have to put back to port to change our modular mission package but we will be right back. We came to the table with the wrong one, sorry.

    I'd rather have a new frigate.
    Yeah, but they come back fast zooooom 40knt!

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    • I haven't read this thread in a bit, and I sure am no naval expert. But the LCS is one of those things where everyone can't help but want to comment.

      In the modular, small/litoral-capable and cheap/fast mantra, we seem to have given up some pretty important elements that were common on previous US Navy vessels. Things like ECM systems. Sensors. Self-defense weapon systems, covering air, surface and subsurface. If I was a sailor, I would be a bit happier on a vessel with lower survivability thresholds if I knew my ship could still kick some ass. I mean, this isn't a destroyer, but she shouldn't be armed like an offshore patrol vessel. And yes, I know how much the -60s on the back can do for you. I have also seen weather and other issues that surprisingly prevent rotary wing from flying, so I don't like to depend on them for everything...

      So what will the frigate or new version incorporate? Air defense - is the RAM/C-RAM adequate or is there a place for ESSM? Or are we looking for real utility and finding room for some VLS (16 would be impressive loadout on this size ship, I would think). This could quad-pack ESSM, carry VL-ASROC, VL Harpoon replacement, etc. If you could fit it (within the current draft) and afford the sensors and their weight, nobody would be laughing, me-thinks.

      Torpedo tubes - are they really that passe? Seems like they can't be a super high-dollar item. Maybe look at the smaller 2-tube fixed launchers like Halifax-class in order to preserve stealthy profile?
      Gun - I think everyone knows the 57mm is not adequate against anything but a missile-type or small boat threat. Is it worth it to upgrade to 76mm guns?

      Is there any benefit in a non-networked missile system for ship defense against surface threats? Small control station or even a manual tracker to FLIR with the ability to launch a missile with equal (threshold) or more range than Hellfire? This seems to be a critical defensive requirement for a litoral-focused ship. But I wonder if you can do this without adding very expensive sensors, launchers, etc. There is a 75% solution out there that is probably adequate, given our current budgetary issues. A dozen Hellfires would be a nice capability.

      Finally, what is gained by nixing the 40 knot speed spec? Obviously, a smaller powerplant, with increased range, perhaps simpler with fewer crew required to maintain. Space for systems and sensors? Crew living quarters?

      Finally, what do we do about the mine hunting mission? Give it to the current LCS fleet, and start a new-build frigate fleet for everything else? Of all the missions out there, minehunting is the pretty exclusive one - you don't need high-speed, or lots of other stuff. Should we just buy another purpose-built fleet of MH? I would compare the idea of 1 ship to all missions/modular capability that the LCS represents, to equal the F-35 as the single all-purpose jet of the future. Each is really screwed when you look at the exclusive capability of a single specialized capability or mission - minehunting and verticle take-off/landing.

      Just looking for others' thoughts and hoping to get enlightened on what is possible/likely.

      Tankersteve

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      • I'd really like to see the LCS incorporate an air defense radar, and few VLS cells with quad packed ESSM and Naval Strike Missiles (I'd like to see those on the F-35 as well)

        I'm not really sure what they are going for with that 57mm gun. It seems too small to be effective against a larger ship, yet a 30mm would probably be more effective against small boats while being much smaller to boot.

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        • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
          Yep, time out guys we have to put back to port to change our modular mission package but we will be right back. We came to the table with the wrong one, sorry.

          I'd rather have a new frigate.
          The flip side of that is "We don't have the right ship/capability on station, so we have to wait 2-3 weeks for them to transit into the AO.

          The mission packages on the LCS gives us the option to tailor the ships to a changing situation within days instead of weeks.

          the problem comes when people start comparing it to a DD or even the battleships in ability to take damage, inflict damage.

          LCS is the modern equivalent of the Cannon class DDE. They have the capability of being configured as DDE, APD and DMS's.

          None of those could take or gave a very big punch they did a very important job.

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          • Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
            I'm not really sure what they are going for with that 57mm gun. It seems too small to be effective against a larger ship, yet a 30mm would probably be more effective against small boats while being much smaller to boot.
            LCS can mount a couple of Mk46 30mm guns. Those are modules in the surface warfare package, which can be separated out of that package for use alone or for use with another mission package. They can be removed for missions when it is considered unlikely they would be needed and/or the added top weight might be better allocated toward something else more useful for the mission.

            Here on USS Freedom (LCS-1):







            Below are a few videos showing the mk110 57mm with BAE/BOFORS 3P programmable ammunition.



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            • Here are a few videos showing the mk110 57mm with BAE/BOFORS 3P programmable ammunition.
              Gunner porn
              yep, the wife is getting lucky tonight.

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              • Swarm boats to be deployed from the LCS?
                U.S. Navy Tests Robot Boat Swarm to Overwhelm Enemies - IEEE Spectrum

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                • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                  Someone's been spending too much time watching the SyFy channel...

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                  • Wasn't this the system that they used to test the LCS fire control system against multiple small targets?

                    So now we have our own unmanned Bog Hammer.

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                    • Positioning of LCS 7, PCU Detroit into its launching cradle.

                      Ready for Launch: Detroit

                      They should have that little Detroit rock band, KISS play at the launch!:Dancing-Banana:
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4-5OtBx6u8
                      Last edited by surfgun; 18 Oct 14,, 21:15.

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                      • Here is the actual launching. No pyrotechnics or Detroit rock city.

                        USS Detroit (LCS 7) launch, Marinette Marine 10-18-14 - YouTube

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                        • Story Number: NNS141114-15Release Date: 11/14/2014
                          From Naval Surface Force Atlantic Fleet, Public Affairs
                          MAYPORT, Fla. (NNS) -- Capt. Paul Young assumed command of the newly formed Commander, Littoral Combat Ship Squadron (LCSRON) 2 during a ceremony held at Naval Station Mayport, Florida, Nov. 7.

                          Waterfront and community leaders joined Commander, Naval Surface Force Atlantic, Rear Adm. Pete Gumataotao, in welcoming the Sailors and staff who will support the arrival of littoral combat ships (LCS) in Mayport starting in 2016.

                          The ceremony was held at the construction site of the LCSRON 2 headquarters where the support squadron staff and ship crew members is expected to grow to 900 Sailors.

                          "This is a major command set to do some heavy lifting for us in the very near future," Gumataotao said. "LCS is set to do very specific missions, but brings capabilities to the warfighter that can adapt and flex quickly to a very dynamic operational environment of the 21st century."

                          With the establishment of LCSRON 2, six LCS of the Freedom variant are expected to be stationed in Mayport within the next few years. These ships include USS Little Rock (LCS 9), USS Sioux City (LCS 11), USS Wichita (LCS 13), USS Billings (LCS 15), USS Indianapolis (LCS 17), and LCS 19.

                          The Mayport LCS community will include three new buildings where Sailors assigned to the ships will train, while the support squadron staff addresses administrative, scheduling, maintenance, logistics and equipment issues for the ships and crews.

                          During the ceremony, Young said this was his third - and the most exciting - time assuming command.

                          "We are going to ask a lot of these Sailors," Young said. "They are going to have to be as innovative as they ever have before. We are going to ask them to challenge and question things they spent years learning. And then, we're going to ask them to take those innovations and fold them neatly and smoothly into the greatest surface force in history. Any of you who have worked with Sailors know they'll do it. They'll get it done and that excites me. It will be an honor and a privilege to watch."

                          Fast, agile and mission focused, littoral combat ships are designed to operate in near-shore environments and employ modular mission packages that can be configured for surface warfare, mine countermeasures or anti-submarine warfare. The LCS class consists of two variants, the monohull design Freedom variant and the trimaran design Independence variant. The ships are designed and built by two industry teams, led by Lockheed Martin and Austal USA, respectively. They operate with a core crew of 50, a composite aviation detachment of 23, and a mission module crew of 15 to 20 depending on the assignment.

                          "Littoral Combat Ships will play an important role in today's fleet meeting our CNO's (chief of naval operations) key tenets of warfighting first, operate forward, be ready," Gumataotao said. "It's very motivating to see the diverse mix of surface ships down here in Mayport... Amphibs, CRUDES (cruisers and destroyers), PCs (patrol craft) and soon the LCS Hull 1 variant. The sense of team and partnership is not just evident on the waterfront but also with the community here in Mayport. If you're a junior officer, this is a good place to put on your dream sheet!"

                          Construction is currently underway for a two-story logistics-support facility that will house classrooms, an operations work space, a reference library, office spaces for the ship crews when they are not shipboard, video teleconference rooms, and a crew lounge.

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                          • CNO Greenert: Hagel ‘Close to a Decision’ on LCS Follow On
                            By: Sam LaGrone | USNI News
                            Published: November 17, 2014 7:21 PM
                            Updated: November 18, 2014 9:10 AM

                            The final decision on the 20-hull follow up to the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) fleet by Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel will be made soon, the Chief of Naval Operations said during a defense conference in California over the weekend.

                            “The Secretary is very close to a decision,” Adm. Jonathan Greenert said in an interview with news service Reuters during Reagan National Defense Forum at the Ronald Reagan presidential library.

                            “It was our endeavor to provide an option which would provide a more lethal ship, one that is more survivable, with capabilities that can be back fit, and as much as feasible, not interrupt production.”

                            Greenert told Reuters following the decision expected an announcement after the decision and an outline of the way ahead.

                            Navy officials contacted by USNI News on Monday declined to comment on Greenert’s statements to Reuters.

                            Pentagon leadership issued a memo in January directing the Navy to replace the last 20 of the planned 52 LCS with frigate-like ships with more firepower than the current Flight 0 Lockheed Martin Freedom-class and Austal USA Independence-class variant.

                            The service was tasked to examine up gunning the two Flight 0 variants currently in production, a new design or foreign variants and present options to Pentagon leadership.

                            Several sources have confirmed to USNI News that the results of the so-called Small Surface Combatant (SSC) taskforce has been internalized by the service and a recommended path forward has been proffered, but the recommendation has been one of the most closely held secrets in Navy acquisition hid in a swirl of non-disclosure agreements.

                            However, Greenert’s comments on not interrupting production suggest the recommendation could be based on one or both of the Flight 0 LCS variants.

                            The capabilities of the current LCS designs have come under consistent criticism in and outside the Navy but the final cost of the ships — averaging less than $500 million a hull — has also been considered an acquisition success by the service.

                            Given the importance the service has placed on maintaining on the shipbuilding industrial base, it’s highly likely whatever the SSC decision the Navy recommends it would take pains to preserve the Austal and Lockheed shipyards in Alabama and Wisconsin.

                            USNI News understands the primary difference between the current crop of LCS and the SSC will be the inclusion of a 3D air defense radar, some type of offensive anti-air missile and perhaps an over-the-horizon anti-surface missile — which both Austal and Lockheed have included in offerings for foreign military sales (FMS).

                            However it will be up to Hagel to approve the final plan and that consultation has been pushed back several times due primarily to the ongoing security crisis in Iraq and Syria with the advancement of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

                            The service has previously said the SSC decision will be folded into the Department of the Navy’s (DoN) Fiscal Year 2016 budget submission, due out early next year.

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                            • Lockheed Martin has always been pushing an upgraded version of the Freedom class, first to the US Gov't, then to foreign buyers like Saudi Arabia.

                              What

                              Maybe now they will get their way. Personally, I am still in favor of the Patrol frigate concept from Huntington Ingalls. Cut the number of LCS and use them to cruise the Caribbean or park them overseas somewhere with a Lewis B Puller type ship or Whidbey Island stuffed with patrol boats. Have the Patrol frigate replace the OHP's.

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                              • Originally posted by DonBelt View Post
                                Lockheed Martin has always been pushing an upgraded version of the Freedom class, first to the US Gov't, then to foreign buyers like Saudi Arabia.

                                What
                                So... warships that are actually armed and capable of fighting?

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